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Message no. 1
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:01:17 PST
As we are talking about Spells, LOS and AOE could someone shed some
light on this problem/Idea.

The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
meters from the mirror to Joe).

The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?

\
j \m
--------- \
| f
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| M

Matthew Waddilove

"No two countries that both have a McDonald's have ever fought a war
against each other." Tom Friedman
Corporate influence is everywhere!!!

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Message no. 2
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:44:42 -0500
> From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:01 AM

> As we are talking about Spells, LOS and AOE could someone shed some
> light on this problem/Idea.

> The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
> effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
> and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
> real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
> the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
> meters from the mirror to Joe).

> The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?

> \
> j \m
> --------- \
> | f
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | M

You're making things too hard for yourself. ;) Sure, it affects Joe.
Area of Effect is centered upon the target of the spell (Fred). Anyone
within 5 meters of Fred will definately be affected by the spell (like it
or not) as long at the casting magician can see their aura. Since the
mirror causes the mage to see Joe's aura, he too must resist the spell.
The only part the distance plays is to determine whether someone is
physically within AOE (in this case, 5 meters in any direction from Fred).

Hope that helps,

> Matthew Waddilove

Justin :)
Message no. 3
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:58:53 +0100
>As we are talking about Spells, LOS and AOE could someone shed some
>light on this problem/Idea.
>
>The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
>effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
>and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
>real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
>the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
>meters from the mirror to Joe).
>
>The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?
>
> \
> j \m
>--------- \
> | f
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | M

Yep. You use the mirror to synchronize the spell to the aura of Fred. Then
the spell travels to him and has its normal effect. Joe being less than 5
meters away from Fred and Joe being a valid target (there's a LOS between
the mage and Joe), Joe is affected by the spell.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 4
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:59:44 +0000
And verily, did Matthew Waddilove hastily scribble thusly...
|The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
|effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
|and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
|real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
|the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
|meters from the mirror to Joe).
|
|The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?
|
***
| *****\
| *j*****\m
|---------*****\
| |**f****
| |******
| |*****
| |****
| | **
| |
| |
| |
| | M
|

See above. The spell is centred on fred and affects everyone in the area the
mage can sync auras with. Perceived distance doesn't matter. The actual area
of the spell effect does.


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 5
From: Matthew Waddilove <m_waddilove@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:38:49 PST
Spike spoke this.
>
>And verily, did Matthew Waddilove hastily scribble thusly...
> ***
>| *****\
>| *j*****\m
>|---------*****\
>| |**f****
>| |******
>| |*****
>| |****
>| | **
>| |
>| |
>| |
>| | M
>|
>
>See above. The spell is centred on fred and affects everyone in the
area the
>mage can sync auras with. Perceived distance doesn't matter. The actual
area
>of the spell effect does.

Thanks Cobra, Justin and Spike for sorting that one out.

Can you just clarify some thing else please.

Do physical manipulation spells manifest at the mage casting or the
target? 'cause I think they manifest at the Mage but don't all other
spells manifest at the Target

\
j~~~~~~~\m
-----'--- ~ \
' | ~
'| ~
' ~
|' ~
| '~
| M
(' = the line the spell would try to take, ~ = LOS)
so if the Mage cast a Phys. Manip. spell at Joe would he or would he
not the hit.

Matthew Waddilove
(I like doing these drawings;) )


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Message no. 6
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:55:08 +0100
>Thanks Cobra, Justin and Spike for sorting that one out.

You're welcome. :)

>Can you just clarify some thing else please.
>
>Do physical manipulation spells manifest at the mage casting or the
>target? 'cause I think they manifest at the Mage but don't all other
>spells manifest at the Target
>
> \
> j~~~~~~~\m
>-----'--- ~ \
> ' | ~
> '| ~
> ' ~
> |' ~
> | '~
> | M
>(' = the line the spell would try to take, ~ = LOS)
> so if the Mage cast a Phys. Manip. spell at Joe would he or would he
>not the hit.

That's it. When the mage casts a manip spell, he doesn't need to
synchronize it with the aura of the target, hence the possibility to cast
the spell without actually seeing the target. The spells manifests at the
mage then travels physically to the target. That's the reason why :
* You have a fixed TN (usually 4)
* The target can dodge the spell (using combat pool)
* The target gets the benefits from armor and barriers.

In your exemple, the mage casts his spell which hits the wall. If the
spells is sufficiently powerful, it will wipe out the stone (plastic
concrete or anything) then hit the target.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 7
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:01:46 +0000
And verily, did Matthew Waddilove hastily scribble thusly...
|Can you just clarify some thing else please.
|
|Do physical manipulation spells manifest at the mage casting or the
|target? 'cause I think they manifest at the Mage but don't all other
|spells manifest at the Target

Yes, basically. That's why they grant armour protection to the target and
have a set target number. The mage generates the power at his location and
launches it physically, not astrally. So any windows or corners in the way
would need to be overcome before the actual target got hit.

Also, once the spell has bloomed (if it's AoE), LoS is not required to
affect everyone else in the area.

|Matthew Waddilove
|(I like doing these drawings;) )

I guessed.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 8
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:30:43 PST
>The Big Question is does the [area effect] spell [targeted on Fred]
effect Joe?
>
> \
> j \m
>--------- \
> | f
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | M

Lets look at a slightly different scenario: say the mage target
joe, with anon-area effect spell. He has LOS, thanks to the mirror.
However, the spell does NOT travel to the mirror and then to joe- it
goesin a straigh line, through the walls. Those walls could possibly
stop it (if they are wards, or the spell is a DM).
Now, say you have an AREA effect spell being cast on joe. He'sin
los. Fred is also LOS and in the radius of the spell. Freds hit. The
situation is identical if Fred is the cental targetand joe in the area
of effect. However, The spell will be goiung through the wall, not a
problem for combat spells and mundane walls, stikier for DM's and warded
walls.

Think of it this way-

_______________ (mirrored wall)

[
[ f
m ====================== (other walls)
j

Mage has los to Joe and Fred. Mage can target either with an area
effect spell. The other is LOS and in the area of effect. The walls
may come into play, depending on the spell and the wall. The fact that
his LOS on Fred Involved a mirror makes no difference on who the spell
targets or the shape of its area of effect.


Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 9
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:54:13 PST
> \
> j~~~~~~~\m
>-----'--- ~ \
> ' | ~
> '| ~
> ' ~
> |' ~
> | '~
> | M
>(' = the line the spell would try to take, ~ = LOS)
> so if the Mage cast a Phys. Manip. spell at Joe would he or would >he
not be hit.
>
>Matthew Waddilove
>(I like doing these drawings;) )

He would be hit, but would get barrier protection (generally 1/2 barrier
for DM's, as detailed on p.150 SR2). The spell passing through 2 walls,
that might be enough to protect him quite well, even blocking the spell
completely. This is actually detailed pretty explicitely on p.150 of
SR2. If the spell is something like "levitate", where impact armor
doesn't matter, the wall really has no effect- its a physical
manipulation, but the effect doesn't originate at the caster and travel
through real space.

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:03:15 +0100
Matthew Waddilove said on 4:01/30 Jan 98...

> The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
> effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
> and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
> real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
> the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
> meters from the mirror to Joe).
>
> The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?
[snip drawing]

The spell does affect Joe, because the spell takes the short route,
namely through the wall; the actual distance the light from Joe to Mage
travels doesn't matter for the spell's range, IMHO, only the actual (=
shortest) distance between Joe and the center of the spell's area of
effect.

> "No two countries that both have a McDonald's have ever fought a war
> against each other." Tom Friedman

Does he mean before or after they got their respective McDonalds's?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
People who live in glass houses ...
... should turn out the lights before they undress.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:03:15 +0100
Matthew Waddilove said on 5:38/30 Jan 98...

> Do physical manipulation spells manifest at the mage casting or the
> target? 'cause I think they manifest at the Mage but don't all other
> spells manifest at the Target

Manipulation spells come into the physical plane at the caster, all other
spells at the target.

> \
> j~~~~~~~\m
> -----'--- ~ \
> ' | ~
> '| ~
> ' ~
> |' ~
> | '~
> | M
> (' = the line the spell would try to take, ~ = LOS)
> so if the Mage cast a Phys. Manip. spell at Joe would he or would he
> not the hit.

Joe would not be hit, as the spell wants to go through the wall, as in
your drawing. However it's in the physical world at this time, so it hits
the wall instead of Joe. Of course, if it's powerful enough to break
through the wall (using the Firing Through Barriers rules, not the
Breaking Through Barriers), it will still hit Joe.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
People who live in glass houses ...
... should turn out the lights before they undress.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 12
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:52:11 +1000
Matthew writes:
>The Mage (M) casts an AOE spell of Fred(f), the spell has a radius of
>effect of 5 meters, there is a mirror(\'s and the m) 3 meters from Fred
>and Joe(j) is 4 meters from Fred and 5 meters from the mirror. so the
>real distance between Joe and Fred is 4 meters but the Mage perceives
>the distance to be 8 meters (3 meters from Fred to the mirror then 5
>meters from the mirror to Joe).
>
>The Big Question is does the spell effect Joe?


Yes... the mirror let's the mage see the aura, and therefore the spell will
sync with it. The spell gets lit off, it hits every applicable aura the mage
can see (applicable meaning those that meet the conditions of the spell
(living for Mana spells, etc)) in the AOE, and Joe gets hit by the spell.

--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robert.watkins@******.com *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells,LOS and AOE
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:59:07 +1000
Gurth writes:
>The spell does affect Joe, because the spell takes the short route,
>namely through the wall; the actual distance the light from Joe to Mage
>travels doesn't matter for the spell's range, IMHO, only the actual (=
>shortest) distance between Joe and the center of the spell's area of
>effect.


One exception: the wall is astrally-active (ie, FAB lined, part of a
medicine lodge, warded, etc). Then Fred would only get blasted if the
round-about method (off the mirror) would be in range, IMHO.

>> "No two countries that both have a McDonald's have ever fought a war
>> against each other." Tom Friedman

>Does he mean before or after they got their respective McDonalds's?


And declared or undeclared? China and Taiwan have been at war since the
formation of both, and they both have Macca's.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com

Further Reading

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