Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells on the Fly
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:29:45 -0400
18 Sep 97, Brett Borger wrote:

>>I'd also love to see a system for "spells on the fly". As I
see it,
>>at least for hermetics, there is a set of rules about creating
>>magical effects. Spells are calculated versions of these that
allow
>>for safer, lower drain casting. But in a pinch, a mage should
be
>>able to use these rules to create a quick and dirty effect.
(A
>>shaman should be able to as well, but with a slightly
different
>>rationalization.).

I like this idea. I would allow it for Initiates probably Grade
3 or higher. The drain codes for the spell on the fly would probably be
inc. by 1. It does make sense though.

Galen
Message no. 2
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spells on the Fly
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:31:57 -0500
At 05:29 PM 9/18/97 -0400, Jackson, Hank wrote:
# 18 Sep 97, Brett Borger wrote:
#
# >>I'd also love to see a system for "spells on the fly". As I
#see it,
# >>at least for hermetics, there is a set of rules about creating
# >>magical effects. Spells are calculated versions of these that
#allow
# >>for safer, lower drain casting. But in a pinch, a mage should
#be
# >>able to use these rules to create a quick and dirty effect.
#(A
# >>shaman should be able to as well, but with a slightly
#different
# >>rationalization.).
#
# I like this idea. I would allow it for Initiates probably Grade
#3 or higher. The drain codes for the spell on the fly would probably be
#inc. by 1. It does make sense though.
#
# Galen

Or what if a "starting" mage was hanging with a mage of more power who cast
fireball quite a lot, if he can mimic the basics needed, it shouldn't be
THAT hard to copy the spell in an emergency

--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 3
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Spells on the fly
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:28:41 -0400
Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
>I'd also love to see a system for "spells on the fly". As I see it,
>at least for hermetics, there is a set of rules about creating
>magical effects. Spells are calculated versions of these that allow
>for safer, lower drain casting. But in a pinch, a mage should be
>able to use these rules to create a quick and dirty effect. (A
>shaman should be able to as well, but with a slightly different
>rationalization.).
>
>Nothing too complicated, or too easy. Perhaps like the original
>decker "utilities on the fly", something that is too hard to be used
>as a rule, but it exists in a pinch. Comments?

I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters in
Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.
Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games where
spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like Ars
Magica or Mage. Or in games like Castle Falkenstein, where magicians are
limited by other factors (in this case time and knowledge; spellcasting in
Falkenstein takes a lot of time and you have to know the correct lore). In a
game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character types,
on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.

Steve
Message no. 4
From: Craig J Wilhelm Jr <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:56:00 -0400
Steve Kenson wrote:
> I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters in
> Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
> additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.
> Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games where
> spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like Ars
> Magica or Mage. Or in games like Castle Falkenstein, where magicians are
> limited by other factors (in this case time and knowledge; spellcasting in
> Falkenstein takes a lot of time and you have to know the correct lore). In a
> game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character types,
> on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.

I used to think this myself untill I came accross a spontaneous magic system in
one of the various Plastic Warriors supliments (I forget which), and adapted it
to suit my desires.
This system works thusly:

Step 1: decide on force and effects you wish the spell to have (subject to the
approval of the GM of course), designing the drain level and effects with the
spell creation system in the Grimoir, or simply pick a spell from one of the
official books.
Step 2: Make a Magic theory test with a target number equal to twice the force
of the spell, only one success is required (karma may be used to augment this
roll as normal).
Step 3: Cast the spell as normal, but magic pool may not be added to augment it
in any way. Then resist the drain, but instead of at F/2 + mods, resist at force
+ mods, and again magic pool may not be used to augment the test in any way.
Steps 1 and 2 combined require a total of 1 complex action (note: not two
simple actions), and step 3 of course uses 1 complex action.
This has worked out very well in my game, it usefull enough to add a greater
level of flexebility to the group, yet it's hard enough to keep it from being
abused.

P E A C E !
--
Craig J Wilhelm Jr

Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.

http://home.earthlink.net/~craigjwjr/

I-Chat Username: craigjwjr

-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
v3.12
GAT/$ d? s+:+ a-- C++ !U--- !P !L- !E-- W++ N++
o K- w++ O> !M-- !V PS+ PE+++ Y+ PGP- t-
5+++ X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+ G e++ h* r+ y++**
--------------END GEEK CODE BLOCK--------------
Message no. 5
From: Timothy Little <t_little@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:50:41 +1000
At 02:28 PM 9/19/97 -0400, Steve Kenson wrote:

>Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
>
>>Nothing too complicated, or too easy. Perhaps like the original
>>decker "utilities on the fly", something that is too hard to be used
>>as a rule, but it exists in a pinch. Comments?
>
>I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters in
>Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
>additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.

I agree with Steve on this one. Compared to the other magic systems I've
played (AD&D, GURPS, Rolemaster), Shadowrun mages are already far more
flexible.

They can cast a virtually unlimited number of spells per day, usually
without 'drain', affecting mundanes more easily and at greater range with
less penalties.

Any full magician can learn any spell, without prerequisites, at a cheaper
cost than improving other abilities, usually in less time, and can design
new spells to fit their needs.

>Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games where
>spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like Ars
>Magica or Mage.

I would argue that in Shadowrun society, mages *should* hold much greater
positions of power than they are depicted. Magic should have a much
greater effect on the world than virtually anything else.

Why do hospitals as such still exist? One Sorcery Adept with that
diagnosing spell, Heal, Cure (D) Disease and Detox (D) toxin replaces a
large number of medical staff. Design a couple of other medical spells and
replace huge sections of expensive medical facilities.

How does a non-magical doctor compete with a trained medical magician?

Given that magicians legally need to be registered in most areas, and
healing magic is the least legally problematic, such magic is likely to be
a good career choice for magicians who want to stay on the right side of
the law.

> Or in games like Castle Falkenstein, where magicians are
>limited by other factors (in this case time and knowledge; spellcasting in
>Falkenstein takes a lot of time and you have to know the correct lore). In a
>game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character types,
>on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.

IMHO, it's already too much of an advantage. Adding improvised
spellcasting just makes it even worse.

--
Tim Little
Message no. 6
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 00:33:09 EDT
On Fri, 19 Sep 1997 14:28:41 -0400 Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
writes:
>
>I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters
in
>Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
>additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.
>Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games
where
>spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like
Ars
>Magica or Mage. Or in games like Castle Falkenstein, where magicians are
>limited by other factors (in this case time and knowledge; spellcasting
in
>Falkenstein takes a lot of time and you have to know the correct lore).
In a
>game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character
types,
>on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.

I do agree with you that on-the-fly spellcasting(actually, spell
creation would almost be a better term) can be way too powerful, but if
you finagle it right, it won't be. I think those of us interested in the
on-the-fly concept are more looking for a way to pull the
characters'/party's/planet's/universe's butt out of a sling. If you limit
the Force of the spell and pump the drain code enough, it won't turn into
a game of Mage with Cyberware and no Paradox. It should be an emergency
device, not an excuse to not take a spell. That's why in the system I
devised, Drain Power gets Doubled and Drain Level gets pumped one, so
anyone crazy enough to try a Hellblast this way at a decent force is more
than likely going to collapse(Force 6 Hellblast on the fly has a drain of
20D, minus the mage's initiate level). That way they'll only pull it with
a necessary spell, and it enables them to pump Force beyond what they
know - for a price.

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page -
http://members.aol.com/w0lfstar

"If you took the IQ's of everyone here and converted it to a temperature,
you could lightly toast a marshmallow." - CHS Class of '93 Yearbook
quote.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GAT/! d- s+:+ a-- C++(++++)>$ U+ P? L>++ E? W++(--) N- o? K- w(--) O>+ M
!V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X R++ tv+ b+(+++) DI++ D--- G e h!-- r*
y+/-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 01:27:21 -0500
You wrote:
> I would argue that in Shadowrun society, mages *should* hold much greater
> positions of power than they are depicted. Magic should have a much
> greater effect on the world than virtually anything else.
Except that people are wary of magicians. Many people are uncomfortable just
working with a mage let alone having one as their boss. Just think about hwo
closely a mage could keep tabs on his underlings' personal opinions, etc. with
a few spells. Also, magic doesn't tend to lend itself to being 'in charge' so
much as other applications. Corps tend to use magic in research, the military
in recon rather than on the battlefield, etc.

> Why do hospitals as such still exist? One Sorcery Adept with that
> diagnosing spell, Heal, Cure (D) Disease and Detox (D) toxin replaces a
> large number of medical staff. Design a couple of other medical spells and
> replace huge sections of expensive medical facilities.
So long as some mage is willing to do that work, all the time, knowing that
he's taking the places of a large staff, and what happens when he calls off
sick? Magicians are extremely expensive and difficult to lure into such
positions unless it's what they already want to do.

> How does a non-magical doctor compete with a trained medical magician?
He's cheaper, more readily available and replaceable.

> Given that magicians legally need to be registered in most areas, and
> healing magic is the least legally problematic, such magic is likely to be
> a good career choice for magicians who want to stay on the right side of
> the law.
True, true. But a mage of any skill could make a LOT more money with a corp.

> IMHO, it's already too much of an advantage. Adding improvised
> spellcasting just makes it even worse.
This is a big problem, yes.

losthalo
Message no. 8
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:13:13 EDT
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:50:41 +1000 Timothy Little
<t_little@**********.UTAS.EDU.AU> writes:
>
>I agree with Steve on this one. Compared to the other magic systems
I've
>played (AD&D, GURPS, Rolemaster), Shadowrun mages are already far more
>flexible.

And significantly less flexible than at least Mage, and I'd imagine Ars
Magica(though I've never played it). AD&D is quite simply ridiculous in
the number of restrictions they place on mages, to the point where they
practically force you to play a stereotype. GURPS and Rolemaster I've
never played, so no comment.

>They can cast a virtually unlimited number of spells per day, usually
>without 'drain', affecting mundanes more easily and at greater range
with
>less penalties.

I don't know what kind of spells you fling all day, but I can think of
VERY few spells that are capable of being cast without any drain
occuring. At least, and have some effect after all is said and done.

>Any full magician can learn any spell, without prerequisites, at a
cheaper
>cost than improving other abilities, usually in less time, and can
design
>new spells to fit their needs.

This has no bearing on the fact that improvisational magic allows for
magicians to whip up something quick to get themselves out of a bind. And
the way it's set up, it doesn't allow for the "traditional" fantasy
occurences, such as waving a hand to light candles on the other side of
the room, etc. I agree there would need to be limits, but it shouldn't be
impossible.

>I would argue that in Shadowrun society, mages *should* hold much
greater
>positions of power than they are depicted. Magic should have a much
>greater effect on the world than virtually anything else.

With less than one percent of the population magically active(in any
way, shape or form, if you take out Enchanting adepts, Conjuring adepts,
Astral Adepts, and Physical Adepts, that leaves you about 2/10th of 1% of
the world's population as a spellcaster) that's just simply not viable.

>Why do hospitals as such still exist? One Sorcery Adept with that
>diagnosing spell, Heal, Cure (D) Disease and Detox (D) toxin replaces a
>large number of medical staff. Design a couple of other medical spells
and
>replace huge sections of expensive medical facilities.

Probably for the very same reason that we're still using fossil fuels
instead of water to power our cars and homes when we have the technology
to do so. Or even, for that matter, why a V-8 engine only gets 15-20
miles to the gallon when a man built a car with a V-8 engine that got 40
miles to the gallon over 35 years ago. It's all a matter of economics.
Old men and Oil Companies run the world today; they're a little less
subtle in the 2050's.

>How does a non-magical doctor compete with a trained medical magician?

By having a Doctorate in Medicine rather than Thaumaturgy, and a lot of
people still don't trust magic. For that matter, How exactly did that
transition go so orderly? How does one essentially eradicate a way of
thinking that's been practiced and accepted for nigh unto 2000 years?
Questions to ponder.

>Given that magicians legally need to be registered in most areas, and
>healing magic is the least legally problematic, such magic is likely to
be
>a good career choice for magicians who want to stay on the right side of
>the law.

Half of the magically active don't even realize that they ARE magically
active. Just because you're magically active doesn't mean your active
magically, if you take my meaning.

>IMHO, it's already too much of an advantage. Adding improvised
>spellcasting just makes it even worse.

It isn't really that much of an advantage. A full-blown magician, to get
a good use out of all of his capabilities, has to put 4 or 5 skills at at
LEAST 3, preferably higher, plus etiquette(not necessary, but a good
idea). Couple that with the fact that you have to blow priority A on
magic, that reduces your total available skill and attribute points
already, and you want a higher Intelligence and Willpower. All that to
basically become a combination walking medkit/grenade launcher/scout
drone, that's occasionally prone to random shut-downs. Not too spiffy
overall, neh?

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page -
http://members.aol.com/w0lfstar

"If you took the IQ's of everyone here and converted it to a temperature,
you could lightly toast a marshmallow." - CHS Class of '93 Yearbook
quote.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GAT/! d- s+:+ a-- C++(++++)>$ U+ P? L>++ E? W++(--) N- o? K- w(--) O>+ M
!V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X R++ tv+ b+(+++) DI++ D--- G e h!-- r*
y+/-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: Rob Siemborski <robsiemb@******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 08:32:33 -0400
On Mon, 22 Sep 1997, George H Metz wrote:

> I don't know what kind of spells you fling all day, but I can think of
> VERY few spells that are capable of being cast without any drain
> occuring. At least, and have some effect after all is said and done.

Well here are a few:

Imp. Invis, Invis, Mana Bolt 6 (Yes, w/6 willpower & 6 magic pool it's
50% likely), Stun Bolt's a stretch. Mana Dart, Power Dart (Yes, these are
weaker).

But most of these (and others, these are farily common ones) are easy to
cast without drain provided you have a 6 sorcery & 6 willpower (Of course,
if you (munchkinized?) went for Sorcery/Spellcasting Concentration (7
magic pool) and bought yourself a nice Rating 2 Power Focus (+2 Magic/+2
Magic Pool) You can fling spells all day without much trouble...) Hehehehehe....

- Rob -

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rob Siemborski * http://www.bergen.org/~robsiemb (Has PGP Public Key)
Wow! Web Wonders <> http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Wow/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----
Version: 3.1
GCS/IT/CM d- s+:- a--- C++++>$ UI++>++++ UA++ UL>+ UB+$>++++ UV$>++++
P+$>+++$ L+ E---- W+++ N+ o K- w+(++++)>+++++$ O-(+) M--(+)>! Y PGP++
t+ 5+++>++++ !X R++>+++ tv(+) b++(+++) DI+ D++(+++) G e- h+>++ r y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:18:47 +0100
George H Metz said on 4:13/22 Sep 97...

> And significantly less flexible than at least Mage, and I'd imagine Ars
> Magica(though I've never played it). AD&D is quite simply ridiculous in
> the number of restrictions they place on mages, to the point where they
> practically force you to play a stereotype. GURPS and Rolemaster I've
> never played, so no comment.

I've only played Ars Magica once, in a demo game, but it looks to me like
it has both "systems" put into one: you can either cast pre-learned
spells, or you can do things like in Mage -- though at a much reduced
chance of success.

> I don't know what kind of spells you fling all day, but I can think of
> VERY few spells that are capable of being cast without any drain
> occuring. At least, and have some effect after all is said and done.

Oh? Almost any spell with L or M drain code you can reasonably expect to
cast without suffering Drain from it, given a decent Willpower and Magic
Pool. Since pools refresh once every 3 seconds, you could cast the spell
all day long without suffering Drain, unless you get some really bad roll
somewhere (which, I admit, is bound to happen sooner or later).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 11
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 17:39:19 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-19 14:30:40 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM writes:

> I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters in
> Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
> additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.
> Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games
where
> spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like Ars
> Magica or Mage. Or in games like Castle Falkenstein, where magicians are
> limited by other factors (in this case time and knowledge; spellcasting in
> Falkenstein takes a lot of time and you have to know the correct lore). In
a
> game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character types,
> on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.
>
What about a variation on what an Otaku (okay, they're cheesy, but fun with
corporate security) does. They have the option of reducing points from their
Bod/Evasion attributes and utilizing them as such. A magician could perform
something similar with his/her magical attribute. Drain could -always- be
perceived as Physical Damage, with a Magic Theory roll required to "figure it
out" quick like.

Additionally, a +1 modifier (as 'the particular spell' that is being cast is
'unique' to the moment always) could be applied to both the success test and
the drain test.
-K
Message no. 12
From: "Mike (Leszek Karlik)" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 05:25:01 +0000
On 22 Sep 97, Rob Siemborski disseminated foul capitalist propaganda
by writing:

> > I don't know what kind of spells you fling all day, but I can
> > think of
> > VERY few spells that are capable of being cast without any drain
> > occuring. At least, and have some effect after all is said and
> > done.

> Well here are a few:
>
> Imp. Invis, Invis, Mana Bolt 6 (Yes, w/6 willpower & 6 magic pool
> it's 50% likely), Stun Bolt's a stretch. Mana Dart, Power Dart
> (Yes, these are weaker).

Or a Power Dart, Mana Dart and Stun Dart Force 12+ (or for that
matter, any spell with a base drain of L) when you've got a trauma
damper (well, there's no official rule saying that it does not reduce
drain, so I will assume it does till FASA says otherwise :P ). Trauma
damper is a very nice tool for a magician.

Mike (Leszek Karlik) - trrkt@******.com; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?! HELL man, I've SEEN one!!!
Message no. 13
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:55:27 +0000
> Or a Power Dart, Mana Dart and Stun Dart Force 12+ (or for that
> matter, any spell with a base drain of L) when you've got a trauma
> damper (well, there's no official rule saying that it does not reduce
> drain, so I will assume it does till FASA says otherwise :P ). Trauma
> damper is a very nice tool for a magician.

I know. I have one player who made a mage with a trauma damper, and
etc. Has a MAgic rating of 1 or 2. Every spell causes Physical
drain, but he always sloughs it all. Annoying fragger.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:49:37 GMT
Steve Kenson writes
>
> I agree with you in theory, but disagree in practice. IMHO, spellcasters in
> Shadowrun are already quite powerful enough without giving them the
> additional flexibility of being able to whip up any spell on demand.

> Experience has shown "improvisational magic" only works well in games where
> spellcasters are supposed to be more powerful than everyone else, like Ars
> Magica
It works fine in Ars Magica but then the game system is set up for
easy implementation and the total you roll determines spell power
while in SR its more spell power determines drain code.

> game like Shadowrun, which tries for some balance between character types,
> on-the-fly spellcasting would be just too much of an advantage.
>
Agreed. To be onhest if you want to do ost of the tricks suggested in
this thread take magic fingers, fashion, levitate item and a illusion
spell at force 1, for about 6 force points of utility magic you
should already be able to do all of this with the existing rules,
there are some pretty broad utility spells in SR as it is.

Mark
Message no. 15
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spells on the fly
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 12:01:08 GMT
Gurth writes

> George H Metz said on 4:13/22 Sep 97...
>
> > And significantly less flexible than at least Mage, and I'd imagine Ars
> > Magica(though I've never played it). AD&D is quite simply ridiculous in
> > the number of restrictions they place on mages, to the point where they
> > practically force you to play a stereotype. GURPS and Rolemaster I've
> > never played, so no comment.
>
> I've only played Ars Magica once, in a demo game, but it looks to me like
> it has both "systems" put into one: you can either cast pre-learned
> spells, or you can do things like in Mage -- though at a much reduced
> chance of success.
>
Ars Magica.
Basically yes. Spells are rated with levels, a slight gust of breeze
or a cigaret lighter flame is level 5 or so, a good wind/ fieball is
25/30 and homebuilt forest fires/tornadoes and level 50+

The learned spells you roll a couple ok magical skills added up plus
a dice plus a few small modifiers and try and get the spell level,
which instant magic generally halves the dice roll total and is more
fatiguing as well which means if you are good at fire magic and can
say cast a level 25 fireball most times as a fromulaic spell (ie one
you know) you could probably whip up a level 10 spell on the fly
(start scout camp fire etc). SR doesn't really support things the
same way, a conversion from know spells to what you can fake in SR
couls be done by a good GM, sure, but guidelines for it would be
tricky to write at best. Given as i said elsewhere force 1 spells are
cheap and can already fake most of this i would leave the system
alone.

> > I don't know what kind of spells you fling all day, but I can think of
> > VERY few spells that are capable of being cast without any drain
> > occuring. At least, and have some effect after all is said and done.
>
> Oh? Almost any spell with L or M drain code you can reasonably expect to
> cast without suffering Drain from it, given a decent Willpower and Magic
> Pool. Since pools refresh once every 3 seconds, you could cast the spell
> all day long without suffering Drain, unless you get some really bad roll
> somewhere (which, I admit, is bound to happen sooner or later).
>
By game mechanics i agree with you Gurth but roleplaying wise you are
going to drain yourself casting all day, most folks think nothing of
a ten minute walk, but what about 10 hours? Even L/2 spells will tire
the caster same as anything else by spell 50 even if the damage
tracks are clear, they don't record fatigue from this sort of thing.

Mark

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Spells on the fly, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!