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Message no. 1
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:12:24 +0000
Hmmm....

Technically, IIRC, spiders are not insects per se - they're
arachnids. Both spiders and insects are arthropods, but they're not
the same - the main difference is that insects have six legs and
spiders eight. (TIMMY! Leave the spider alone!! If you pull his legs
out, that won't count either!!! ;))

So, technically, Spider is not an Insect Spirit.

(It sure is a bug, though. Icky one, too. ;P)

Oh, and if Spider totem is an insect totem, than so is Scorpion
totem. (Which, IMNHSO is not very likely... )


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+
PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
Rugby players get a big kick out of it.
Message no. 2
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 16:09:57 -0500
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike didst sayeth:

>Technically, IIRC, spiders are not insects per se - they're
>arachnids. Both spiders and insects are arthropods, but they're not
>the same - the main difference is that insects have six legs and
>spiders eight. (TIMMY! Leave the spider alone!! If you pull his legs
>out, that won't count either!!! ;))
>
>So, technically, Spider is not an Insect Spirit.


And also, Spider doesn't try to take over its shamen and infest the world
with its spawn. Instead they just have a really wacky gang :)

>Oh, and if Spider totem is an insect totem, than so is Scorpion
>totem. (Which, IMNHSO is not very likely... )

It's not. Scorpion is in Calfree and has nothing in common with the Invae
as presented in bug City or Grimmy2. Instead its handled just like any
other animal totem.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe Swinging Sociopath for Fun
-Tech Priest in Training
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
you've sold your soul, now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice T
Message no. 3
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:12:40 -0600
> It's not. Scorpion is in Calfree and has nothing in common with the Invae
> as presented in bug City or Grimmy2. Instead its handled just like any
> other animal totem.
>
now I amn going to have to get that book.I've heard so much about it.
--
What are you Bulking up to? Fatass? Superfatass? -Southpark kids
Message no. 4
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 15:25:35 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>

>And also, Spider doesn't try to take over its shamen and infest the world
>with its spawn. Instead they just have a really wacky gang :)

She did in the original Never Deal with a Dragon trilogy. I seem to
remember quite a few apparent flesh form spider spirits.

NightRain.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 5
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:44:50 -0000
>And also, Spider doesn't try to take over its shamen and infest the world
>with its spawn. Instead they just have a really wacky gang :)
>


A bit off the road here, but about two years back i bought a RPG mag and,
low and behold, what did it have in it?

A flesh form and true form spider spirit in a run.

I thought it was a bit fishey.
I thing it was role player mag?
Anyone else seen it?

(ps. it's for tons of different systems and i think it's gone outta' print.)
Message no. 6
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:09:37 -0500
NightRain didst sayeth:
>From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
>>And also, Spider doesn't try to take over its shamen and infest the world
>>with its spawn. Instead they just have a really wacky gang :)
>
>She did in the original Never Deal with a Dragon trilogy. I seem to
>remember quite a few apparent flesh form spider spirits.


I don't think I ever actually read that trilogy. But wasn't that
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back around the UB point, well before the Invae were
really explained. The more recent stuff places the arachnids with the
conventional totems connected to nature spirits rather than embodiments of
the totem.

< runs off to go find a copy of NDwaD trilogy >

>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed|


Woohoo! another 40k player...

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe Swinging Sociopath for Fun
-Tech Priest in Training
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
you've sold your soul, now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice T
Message no. 7
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:02:07 EST
In a message dated 98-03-01 05:49:58 EST, nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU writes:

> >And also, Spider doesn't try to take over its shamen and infest the world
> >with its spawn. Instead they just have a really wacky gang :)
>
> She did in the original Never Deal with a Dragon trilogy. I seem to
> remember quite a few apparent flesh form spider spirits.
>
> NightRain.
>
Both of them are true. We had a strange occurence in the games here a year
ago. The Spider Shaman I was playing at the time (just to see what it would
be like being -THAT- sneaky on purpose ;) was talking with someone in the
part and an NPC (IIRC). Somebody was all anxious and twitchy about "Spider"
and Webster turned and looked at them with the following remark (boy did this
one come out of somewhere when I said it...)...(the following is paraphrased)

"You think you know Spider??? Think of it this way, you know I live in
Mother's Web because of the people I have trusted here with us. I haven't
killed you, I haven't transformed you, I haven't made any attempts and am not
likely to do so. What I HAVE done is shown you a glimpse of what Spider
-truly- is. If you see a Spider Shaman out there, or hear about one "making
people into bugs, turning them into their slaves" then you have found a Toxic
Spider, Spider the Killer, the Spider the Trap....they are being to much in
the open, to aggressive, to much of what Spider doesn't want when she is
rested and when she is able to think. I AM Spider, "Widow" of the Spiders in
Seattle is Spider. We both are patient, we both leave the world as it is and
make it work for us. We don't try and make the world into our own image."

How's that for a twist? We decided that the "NPC" Spider Shamans were like
all the other major "Bug Totems" to date, much like what was happening in the
"Secrets of Power" Trilogy. Spider in a more 'sensible' way is what was
written up in the Chicago/Bug City Sourcebook. It has given us a LOT of ideas
concerning the other Insect Totems too, just so you know.

When one goes "Toxic", they have a "Threat Rating", this is true for
Insect
and "Normal" Totems alike (You have seen nothing until you have seen Toxic
Phoenix or Toxic Unicorn). One may be more "Alien in Thought" than others (to
paraphrase the Grimoire's descriptions), but they serve the same effect.
Hence, no Totem Modifiers of any kind. They simply -do-.

You want to know what was fun? Webster got desperate once when we got into a
fight with some Beetle Shaman stuff in Korea (IIRC). Spider gives a bonus to
-all- Spirits, so he made the attempt to "gain control" of the being. Once he
had achieved such, the "spirit" remanifest differently. Though it retained
it's "Beetle Nature", it had distintively "Spider" traits.

Maybe that is a way all of the Totems could be viewed???

-K
Message no. 8
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:05:37 EST
In a message dated 98-03-01 06:04:28 EST, Simon.M@**********.COM writes:

> A bit off the road here, but about two years back i bought a RPG mag and,
> low and behold, what did it have in it?
>
> A flesh form and true form spider spirit in a run.
>
> I thought it was a bit fishey.
> I thing it was role player mag?
> Anyone else seen it?
>
> (ps. it's for tons of different systems and i think it's gone outta'
print.)
>
I think I remember seeing this too Simon. Are you sure it wasn't more than
two years ago though? I could have sworn it was 3, because I was still
finishing off my degree at Ivy Tech, and that was 3...

I still think the definition we use works nicer. Explains why there can be
"both" types of beings...Toxic and PC types...

-K
Message no. 9
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:53:19 -0600
On 03/01/98 12:05:37 you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 98-03-01 06:04:28 EST, Simon.M@**********.COM writes:
>
>> A bit off the road here, but about two years back i bought a RPG mag and,
>> low and behold, what did it have in it?
>>
>> A flesh form and true form spider spirit in a run.
>>
>> I thought it was a bit fishey.
>> I thing it was role player mag?
>> Anyone else seen it?
>>
>> (ps. it's for tons of different systems and i think it's gone outta'
>print.)
>>
>I think I remember seeing this too Simon. Are you sure it wasn't more than
>two years ago though? I could have sworn it was 3, because I was still
>finishing off my degree at Ivy Tech, and that was 3...
>
>I still think the definition we use works nicer. Explains why there can be
>"both" types of beings...Toxic and PC types...
>

Either of you guys remember what mag??



rabiola@**.netcom.com

Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire Juhafa Vadic, Nethermancer
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome... Many speak ill of the path I walk...
Message no. 10
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:21:59 EST
In a message dated 98-03-01 23:53:59 EST, rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

> >I think I remember seeing this too Simon. Are you sure it wasn't more
than
> >two years ago though? I could have sworn it was 3, because I was still
> >finishing off my degree at Ivy Tech, and that was 3...
> >
> Either of you guys remember what mag??
>
I really think it was a Ka'ge (spelling?), though Simon's thinking of a "Role
Aid's" type stuff also sounds familiar. Thing is, SR's "Bugs" were
becoming
really well known, and the books concerning Evil-Spider (SoP) were still
coming out. Everyone in AD$D made the leap of Spider and the Drow....or so it
seemed here, and the next thing you knew everyone wanted to have a good ol'
fight with 'em...

-K
Message no. 11
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 02:07:03 -0600
On 03/02/98 00:21:59 you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 98-03-01 23:53:59 EST, rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM writes:
>
>> >I think I remember seeing this too Simon. Are you sure it wasn't more
>than
>> >two years ago though? I could have sworn it was 3, because I was still
>> >finishing off my degree at Ivy Tech, and that was 3...
>> >
>> Either of you guys remember what mag??
>>
>I really think it was a Ka'ge (spelling?), though Simon's thinking of a "Role
>Aid's" type stuff also sounds familiar. Thing is, SR's "Bugs" were
becoming
>really well known, and the books concerning Evil-Spider (SoP) were still
>coming out. Everyone in AD$D made the leap of Spider and the Drow....or so it
>seemed here, and the next thing you knew everyone wanted to have a good ol'
>fight with 'em...
>

Ka'Ge? Got all those, but don't remember that one in there; will have to go look. Role
Aids?
Wast that the one for SJGames? What else...Pyramid? Challenge? White Wolf?



rabiola@**.netcom.com

Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire Juhafa Vadic, Nethermancer
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome... Many speak ill of the path I walk...
Message no. 12
From: "Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:01:31 -0000
>I think I remember seeing this too Simon. Are you sure it wasn't more
than
>two years ago though? I could have sworn it was 3, because I was still
>finishing off my degree at Ivy Tech, and that was 3...
>
>I still think the definition we use works nicer. Explains why there can be
>"both" types of beings...Toxic and PC types...



Well, i am in no way sure about that date and, now you mention it, it was
probrebly longer.

I really liked that explination, it's one of those <Evil GM laugh> 'you just
wait boy, you wait...'

So let me get this straght.

You allow spider shamans to conjour ANY spirit, including spider bugs?

That really smarts.
Message no. 13
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:57:51 EST
In a message dated 98-03-02 03:07:41 EST, rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

> Ka'Ge? Got all those, but don't remember that one in there; will have to go
> look. Role Aids?
> Wast that the one for SJGames? What else...Pyramid? Challenge? White
Wolf?
>
>
I don't know if it was, I never paid that much attention to stuff like that
back then. I know it wasn't Challenge or Pyramid, but White Wolf could be...

-K
Message no. 14
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:43:34 EST
In a message dated 98-03-02 16:19:07 EST, Simon.M@**********.COM writes:

> You allow spider shamans to conjour ANY spirit, including spider bugs?
>
> That really smarts.
>
In theory yes, however, conjuring "non standard spirits" (ie: stuff not in the
normal "shamanic traditions" for PCs), usually requires Rituals or Karma or
both. And please note, we said 'spirits', not elementals...

-K
Message no. 15
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:41:14 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
>>She did in the original Never Deal with a Dragon trilogy. I seem to
>>remember quite a few apparent flesh form spider spirits.
>
>I don't think I ever actually read that trilogy. But wasn't that
>waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back around the UB point, well before the Invae were
>really explained. The more recent stuff places the arachnids with the
>conventional totems connected to nature spirits rather than embodiments of
>the totem.

Yeah, but they can't just change what has happened and say that it hasn't.
I sort of like the idea that Ereskanti posted in that the flesh forms are
the creation of a 'Toxic' Spider.

NightRain.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|The universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Spiderz 'R Bugs? (;P), you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!