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Message no. 1
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:55:44 +0200
ok, another little off idea from my vacuum...

A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
to handle it?
i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
about its body rating?
how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 2
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:56:29 -0700
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:55:44 +0200 Barbie LeVile <barbie@********.de>
writes:
> ok, another little off idea from my vacuum...
>
> A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
> to handle it?
> i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> about its body rating?
> how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?

If I understand you correctly, nothing has to change because the spirit
is still running around naked. The dress is created out of the spirit's
own essence and is in reality a part of it ... so regarless if the spirit
manifests as a supermodel in a bikini or in heavy duty armor, the
protective value is nil (aside from that whole immunity to normal weapons
bit ;) ...

On the other hand, if the garment is external to the spirit's being, then
the results may vary depending on the nature of the garment ...

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 3
From: Pantherr pantherr@*****.net
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:30:21 -0500
At 10:56 PM 9/14/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:55:44 +0200 Barbie LeVile <barbie@********.de>
>writes:
> > ok, another little off idea from my vacuum...
> >
> > A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
> > to handle it?
> > i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> > about its body rating?
> > how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?
>
>If I understand you correctly, nothing has to change because the spirit
>is still running around naked. The dress is created out of the spirit's
>own essence and is in reality a part of it ... so regarless if the spirit
>manifests as a supermodel in a bikini or in heavy duty armor, the
>protective value is nil (aside from that whole immunity to normal weapons
>bit ;) ...


You don't understand correctly. Her question is what the in-game effects
would be for someone who was wearing, say, a dress, that happened to BE a
spirit's manifested form. The spirit *is* the clothing, and say someone
puts it on..... :)

Pantherr
Message no. 4
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:58:38 -0700
On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:30:21 -0500 Pantherr <pantherr@*****.net> writes:
<SNIP>
> You don't understand correctly. Her question is what the in-game
effects
> would be for someone who was wearing, say, a dress, that happened to BE
a
> spirit's manifested form. The spirit *is* the clothing, and say
someone
> puts it on..... :)

OH!!! I see. I read "a form of a dress" as "a type of dress" ...

That's easy ... Barrier rules. Fire through or take a penalty for
shooting around the dress... The wearer and the spirit both make seperate
damage resistance tests (the spirit uses the wearer's dodge successes if
any). Gimme a hard one :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:18:31 EDT
In a message dated 9/14/1999 7:30:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
barbie@********.de writes:

> A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
> to handle it?
> i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> about its body rating?
> how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?
>
I would rule it doesn't to be honest. We've got a character here who's ally
spirit has a "Scarf" as one of it's forms. We find it best to just leave the
weird details out on situations like this. Besides, to us at least the
"Immunity to Normal Weapons" simply means the weapon in question passes right
through the spirit. Whatever on the other side of the spirit is NOT going to
be all that happy ...

-K
Message no. 6
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:27:27 +0200
dghost@****.com wrote:
>
> That's easy ... Barrier rules. Fire through or take a penalty for
> shooting around the dress... The wearer and the spirit both make seperate
> damage resistance tests (the spirit uses the wearer's dodge successes if
> any). Gimme a hard one :)

Well, what about imunity to normal weapons?
That power makes it a hard one, otherwise the spirit would use its body
as armor rating i think.

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 7
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:31:06 +0200
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>
> I would rule it doesn't to be honest. We've got a character here who's ally
> spirit has a "Scarf" as one of it's forms. We find it best to just leave
the
> weird details out on situations like this. Besides, to us at least the
> "Immunity to Normal Weapons" simply means the weapon in question passes
right
> through the spirit. Whatever on the other side of the spirit is NOT going to
> be all that happy ...
>
Well, i don`t think the attack would pass through the spirit, its matter
after all when manifest, letting it bounce makes more sense to me then
displacing its matter to allow the attack to pass throught it. And then
there is still the imunity power, you are basicaly inside the spirit, so
you should get some form of protection from it.

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 8
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:17:58 -0700
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:18:31 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
>Besides, to us at least the
> "Immunity to Normal Weapons" simply means the weapon in question passes
right
> through the spirit. Whatever on the other side of the spirit is NOT
going to
> be all that happy ...

I take it to mean that the spirit is a non-humanoid (even if it is of a
humanoid shape) mass of energy and "Immunity to Normal Weapons" reflects
the difficulty in hitting anything important. It's like armor sue to not
having (_any_) vital organs. Non-normal weapons (???) get around this by
having the ability to affect the spirits aura. Melee attacks with normal
weapons partially gets around it the same way. Therefore, the spirit can
stop a bullet even if it can't be affected by it.

Another answer to Barbie's question is to simply add the spirit's body
rating to the wearer's for purposes of the damage resistance test. This
is a little harsher but simpler as it doesn't make the damage test target
# any lower, it just gives you more dice to throw at it.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 9
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:19:41 -0700
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:27:27 +0200 Barbie LeVile <barbie@********.de>
writes:
> dghost@****.com wrote:
> > That's easy ... Barrier rules. Fire through or take a penalty for
> > shooting around the dress... The wearer and the spirit both make
seperate
> > damage resistance tests (the spirit uses the wearer's dodge successes
if
> > any). Gimme a hard one :)

> Well, what about imunity to normal weapons?
> That power makes it a hard one, otherwise the spirit would use its body
> as armor rating i think.

Nope. The Immunity only applies to the spirit because, IMO, it reflects
the spirit's lack of an important physical form. C&P'd from my other
post so I don't have to say "Go see yada yada"... My view on a spirit's
Immunity to Normal Weapons:
I take it to mean that the spirit is a non-humanoid (even if it is of a
humanoid shape)
>mass of energy and "Immunity to Normal Weapons" reflects the difficulty
in hitting
>anything important. It's like armor sue to not having (_any_) vital
organs.
>Non-normal weapons (???) get around this by having the ability to affect
the spirits
>aura. Melee attacks with normal weapons partially gets around it the
same way.

Thus it's not really armor but rather, resistance to damage :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 10
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:59:37 -0700
> > <snip>The spirit *is* the clothing, and say
> someone
> > puts it on..... :)
>
> OH!!! I see. I read "a form of a dress" as "a type of dress" ...
>
> That's easy ... Barrier rules. Fire through or take a penalty for
> shooting around the dress... The wearer and the spirit both make seperate
> damage resistance tests (the spirit uses the wearer's dodge successes if
> any). Gimme a hard one :)

I don't think its so easy. Why is a spirit "immune" to normal weapons?
Is it because they stop them cold, like a wall of concrete, or because they
wepons can be made to pass through the materialized form, which, after all,
is basically just a magical creation under the spirits control? I'd say
the later...

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:45:27 -0700
> >Besides, to us at least the
> > "Immunity to Normal Weapons" simply means the weapon in question
passes
> right
> > through the spirit. Whatever on the other side of the spirit is NOT
> going to
> > be all that happy ...
>
> I take it to mean that the spirit is a non-humanoid (even if it is of a
> humanoid shape) mass of energy and "Immunity to Normal Weapons" reflects
> the difficulty in hitting anything important.

If that's so, why does a higher force spirit have better immunity? It
doesn't have any fewer internal organs or other vulnerable points...
On the other hand, its reasonable to assume (even strongly implied) that a
high force spirit would have better control over its physical
manifestation, which would help it to allow potentialy damaging objects to
pass through its body.

Mongoose


"These days, you have to be pretty technical before you can even aspire to
crudeness."
Message no. 12
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:02:17 +0200
Sebastian Wiers wrote:
>
>
> I don't think its so easy. Why is a spirit "immune" to normal
weapons?
> Is it because they stop them cold, like a wall of concrete, or because they
> wepons can be made to pass through the materialized form, which, after all,
> is basically just a magical creation under the spirits control? I'd say
> the later...
>

I say the former, because to me it would be simpler to deflect a attack
then to guide it safly through your own body

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 13
From: Airwasp@***.com Airwasp@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:17:37 EDT
In a message dated 9/14/99 7:30:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
barbie@********.de writes:

> ok, another little off idea from my vacuum...

*Mike grabs ahold of Gurth's staircase to avoid being sucked in* :}}}

> A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
> to handle it?

Preferably with lots of care. Actually, being serious, the dress should have
no problems at all going through a washer and dryer machines as long as the
detergent is not going to alter the dress in any way (like concentrated
bleach or the like) as this would be changing the pattern of the dress.
However, were the dress to be the Hidden Life object, then the dress would be
okay, except that repeated washing might, possibly, turn the spirit somewhat
torward the toxic bent whenever someone mentions needing to do their laundry.

> i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> about its body rating?

The body rating of the spirit does not change, but I would grant the dress
the same number of dice for damage resistance as the force of the spirit to
resist damage.

> how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?

This depends, here, we don't allow this to happen with the PCs (though only
with NPCs) as it would grant them an amount of armor (ballistic and impact)
equal to the force of the spirit (IIRC).

-Mike B.
Message no. 14
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
Airwasp@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 9/14/99 7:30:01 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> barbie@********.de writes:

> > A spirit with a form of a dress, its a simple thing to create, but how
> > to handle it?
>
> Preferably with lots of care. Actually, being serious, the dress
> should have no problems at all going through a washer and dryer
> machines as long as the detergent is not going to alter the dress in
> any way (like concentrated bleach or the like) as this would be
> changing the pattern of the dress. However, were the dress to be the
> Hidden Life object, then the dress would be okay, except that repeated
> washing might, possibly, turn the spirit somewhat toward the toxic
> bent whenever someone mentions needing to do their laundry.

? I believe that you're talking about a spirit that is
permanently manifested, bound into a physical form. I was under the
impression that we're just talking about a standard spirit, that can
manifest in the form of a dress. No going through the process of
creating a body suitable for a spirit etc... (MITS isn't with me, so
I apologize for not having exact terms and references)

> > i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> > about its body rating?

> > how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?

It depends on how you view the power of immunity to normal
weapons. Take, for instance, the case of shooting through an
elemental. IMHO, ItNW does not mean that the bullet is stopped cold.
Shooting a 9M pistol at a force 5 elemental would not necessarily mean
that the bullet failed to penetrate, even though it can't hurt the
elemental. In the case of Earth, sure, I'd say the bullet was
stopped. In the case of Water, it would depend... (probably not
enough energy left to hurt, but maybe penetration) But Air or Fire?
The bullet is probably going straight through the Elemental.

In a similar vein, shooting bullets at the dress spirit might
very well cause holes to appear temporarily, depending on the GM. I'd
also say that decapitating a human-shaped spirit with a sufficiently
large blade (especially if it was somehow thrown) would not be an
automatic deadly wound. Spirits that can manifest in the form of a
person or a dress aren't actually people or dresses, they're just
shaped like them.

Mark
Message no. 15
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:12:06 EDT
In a message dated 9/16/1999 3:13:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
barbie@********.de writes:

> > I don't think its so easy. Why is a spirit "immune" to normal

> weapons?
> > Is it because they stop them cold, like a wall of concrete, or because
> they
> > wepons can be made to pass through the materialized form, which, after
all,
>
> > is basically just a magical creation under the spirits control? I'd say
> > the later...
> >
>
> I say the former, because to me it would be simpler to deflect a attack
> then to guide it safly through your own body

I say neither personally, simply because the idea of "guiding" anything
through your body, especially at Automatic Fire rates, is insanely stupid and
requires way too much concentration for anything, except perhaps Lofwyr.

It all comes down to a POV again IMO. Personally, I like the idea that it
simply passes through the person without doing any kind of real damage.
Barbie may desire a more "reflective" approach, especially in lue of what it
is she is trying to accomplish.

Personally, I think a spirit that is going to be used as "armor" by another
person is NOT going to be happy with that character. For some reason the
"Operation Human Shield" response in Southpark: the Movie comes to mind....at
the last second, every ducks down/gets out of the way, and lets the fops who
thought they'd get the help of "cannon fodder" take it like the wussies they
are.

No, this isn't an attack, its' a viewpoint of how *most* spirits would
respond IMO.

-K
Message no. 16
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:24:23 -0700
>
> > > i mean what with its powers like immunity to normal weapons, or what
> > > about its body rating?
>
> > > how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?
>
> It depends on how you view the power of immunity to normal
>weapons. Take, for instance, the case of shooting through an
>elemental. IMHO, ItNW does not mean that the bullet is stopped cold.
>Shooting a 9M pistol at a force 5 elemental would not necessarily mean
>that the bullet failed to penetrate, even though it can't hurt the
>elemental. In the case of Earth, sure, I'd say the bullet was
>stopped. In the case of Water, it would depend... (probably not
>enough energy left to hurt, but maybe penetration) But Air or Fire?
>The bullet is probably going straight through the Elemental.

In this case i'd say take the "Christine" approach. The dress is damaged
but repairs itself...for fire and such it probably just won;t burn but
whoever is wearing the dress would rather nicely still unless there is some
sort of Guardian thing going on.

--Lomion
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:30:13 EDT
In a message dated 9/16/1999 9:19:07 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Airwasp@***.com writes:

>
> > how does such affect the wearer of such clothing?
>
> This depends, here, we don't allow this to happen with the PCs (though
only
> with NPCs) as it would grant them an amount of armor (ballistic and
impact)
> equal to the force of the spirit (IIRC).

(K starts Laughing as Mike has made the same conjecture that Alfredo did...)

-K
Message no. 18
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:45:23 +0200
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>
> Personally, I think a spirit that is going to be used as "armor" by another
> person is NOT going to be happy with that character.

Well, this spirit in question wants it, its actualy the spirits idea :)
And yes that spirit would be my character, she wants to be close to her
mistress for one reason or another :)

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 19
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:32:41 -0400 (EDT)
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At 09:45 PM 9/16/99 +0200, Barbie LeVile wrote:
::Personally, I think a spirit that is going to be used as "armor" by
:: another person is NOT going to be happy with that character.
:
:Well, this spirit in question wants it, its actualy the spirits idea
:
: :)
:And yes that spirit would be my character, she wants to be close to
:her Mistress for one reason or another :)

Ooooh. Kinky. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 20
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:53:07 -0400
Barbie said:
> I say the former, because to me it would be simpler to deflect a attack
> then to guide it safly through your own body

That would seem to be applicable for a solid form based entity, but for
beings of quicksilver and shadow it could be different. Personally I would
allow either to work. The difference between an earth elemental vs. an air
elemental per se. I think the effect would vary from being to being. For
earth a bullet would just register as a dull thud and lodge inside the mass
until it stopped manifesting and then would fall to the ground. An air
elemental would likely just let it pass through. For the various spirits
just make the call for what seemed appropriate.

OTOH, keep in mind that this could get out of hand in a munchkin sort of
way.

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 21
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:34:14 EDT
In a message dated 9/16/1999 2:55:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
barbie@********.de writes:

> > Personally, I think a spirit that is going to be used as "armor" by
another
> > person is NOT going to be happy with that character.
>
> Well, this spirit in question wants it, its actualy the spirits idea :)
> And yes that spirit would be my character, she wants to be close to her
> mistress for one reason or another :)

Oh I guess it takes all types. Does seem a bit distressing to me however,
simply on the part that you have one masochistic/suicidal type serving itself
up to the opposition on behalf of another.

If it were another player, I admit, I'd probably be more acceptive of the
idea.

-K (YMMV)
Message no. 22
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:29:52 -0700
On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:45:27 -0700 "Sebastian Wiers"
<m0ng005e@*********.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> If that's so, why does a higher force spirit have better immunity? It
> doesn't have any fewer internal organs or other vulnerable points...
> On the other hand, its reasonable to assume (even strongly implied)
that a
> high force spirit would have better control over its physical
> manifestation, which would help it to allow potentialy damaging objects
to
> pass through its body.

The manifestation around the "important parts" is stronger :P~

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
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Message no. 23
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:50:06 +0200
Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
>
> Oh I guess it takes all types. Does seem a bit distressing to me however,
> simply on the part that you have one masochistic/suicidal type serving itself
> up to the opposition on behalf of another.
>
> If it were another player, I admit, I'd probably be more acceptive of the
> idea.
>
When i only would know what you mean by this ...
Honestly i have no clue

--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 24
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:17:52 -0700
On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:34:14 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
> Oh I guess it takes all types. Does seem a bit distressing to me
however,
> simply on the part that you have one masochistic/suicidal type serving
itself
> up to the opposition on behalf of another.
>
> If it were another player, I admit, I'd probably be more acceptive of
the
> idea.

I don't see it all that unreasonable ... It depends on the spirit's
-exact- POV ... Is it "ooo! ooo! Can I get hurt first?" or is it "I can
take the damage better than X so I'll take it ... besides, I heal MUCH
faster"?

Additonally, you do have other advantages to the set-up ... How about a
few questions:
-How would the spirit interfere with astral perception tests directed at
the wearer?
-Can the spirit interfere with such things as weapon detectors or
chemical sniffers (perhaps if it has the Concealment power?)
-Can the spirit cover the wearer totally and create a disguise for the
wearer?
-Would mundane guards be able to realise that the spirit and wearer are
two entities?
-Can the wearer be targeted for non-AoE spells?

The downside:
-Can the wearer astrally perceive/project while the spirit is worn?
-Disrupt the spirit and voila! (almost?) naked PC! (Oh wait ... is that a
downside or a reason to disrupt the spirit? ;)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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Message no. 25
From: Barbie LeVile barbie@********.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:36:55 +0200
dghost@****.com wrote:
>

> I don't see it all that unreasonable ... It depends on the spirit's
> -exact- POV ... Is it "ooo! ooo! Can I get hurt first?" or is it "I
can
> take the damage better than X so I'll take it ... besides, I heal MUCH
> faster"?

Um, nope, its out of real love
>
> Additonally, you do have other advantages to the set-up ... How about a
> few questions:

Ahhh, finaly, someone stats to get it :)
/me hands you a cookie :)

> -How would the spirit interfere with astral perception tests directed at
> the wearer?

I would say yes, after all its another astral active entie between the
wearer and the perciver

> -Can the spirit interfere with such things as weapon detectors or
> chemical sniffers (perhaps if it has the Concealment power?)

Sounds reasonable, does it?

> -Can the spirit cover the wearer totally and create a disguise for the
> wearer?

Goody question, prolly yes

> -Would mundane guards be able to realise that the spirit and wearer are
> two entities?

Prolly not, unless the spirit does something to blow that cover.

> -Can the wearer be targeted for non-AoE spells?

As long as parts of her are visible, i would say yes
>
> The downside:
> -Can the wearer astrally perceive/project while the spirit is worn?

Yes, and with difficulties i would say

> -Disrupt the spirit and voila! (almost?) naked PC! (Oh wait ... is that a
> downside or a reason to disrupt the spirit? ;)

hehehehhehe
>


--
Barbie

"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein F¸hrer" - Adolf Hitler

barbie@********.de
http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/index.html

SRGC 0.22: SR1 SR2+++ SR3--- h++++ b++ b--- UB++ IE- RN+ SR_D+++ W++
dk sh++++ ri++++ sa+++ ad+++ m+++(x+++) gm++ m+++ P+++(P*)
Message no. 26
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:41:54 -0400
> > > I don't think its so easy. Why is a spirit "immune" to
normal
> > weapons?
> > > Is it because they stop them cold, like a wall of concrete, or
because
> > they
> > > wepons can be made to pass through the materialized form, which,
after
> all,
> >
> > > is basically just a magical creation under the spirits control? I'd
say
> > > the later...
> > >
> >
> > I say the former, because to me it would be simpler to deflect a attack
> > then to guide it safly through your own body
>
> I say neither personally, simply because the idea of "guiding" anything
> through your body, especially at Automatic Fire rates, is insanely stupid
and
> requires way too much concentration for anything, except perhaps Lofwyr.

In Tom Dowd's "Burning Bright," there is a lot of description of guns and
spirits--manifest and "physical." [read: spirit- and flesh-form.] In these
descriptions, bullets pass through the manifest spirits, eventually
distracting and disrupting the spirits, forcing them back into the astral,
as per SR2 rules. [Something to remember; "immunity to normal weapons," is a
misnomer. Spirits CAN be disrupted by guns; it simply takes far too long to
do so. But if you've got enough time and firepower, it can be done. What's
the rule? Something like twice the force as armor? Or is that SR1? I don't
remember.]

If anyone is considering using a spirit as armor, I highly recommend reading
this book. If anyone here plays Shadowrun, I highly recommend reading this
book. If anyone is breathing right now, I highly recommend reading this
book. [For those of you who can't find it, well, order it or borrow it or
whatever you have to do. I don't think there's another Shadowrun novel
that's as good. It's only my second-favorite, but I think other people would
like this one better.]

If anyone really can't get ahold of the book, I might be able to be
convinced to type in some relevant passages and send them offlist.

But get the book.

Also, 50 free point of Karma to anyone who can tell me where the book's
title comes from.
Message no. 27
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:29:19 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to abortion_engine."
] Also, 50 free point of Karma to anyone who can tell me where the book's
] title comes from.

"Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"

Maybe.

-Boondocker
Message no. 28
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:55:53 -0400
> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to abortion_engine."
> > Also, 50 free point of Karma to anyone who can tell me where the book's
> > title comes from.
>
> "Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"
>
> Maybe.
>
> -Boondocker
>
I'm afraid not. [Out of curiousity, though, where's _that_ from?]
Message no. 29
From: Rat winterhawk@*********.net
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:21:40 -0700
From: "abortion_engine" <abortion_engine@*******.com>

(Sorry if this goes twice--it didn't send right the first time)

<snip>

>
> In Tom Dowd's "Burning Bright," there is a lot of description of guns and
> spirits--manifest and "physical."

<snip>
>
> Also, 50 free point of Karma to anyone who can tell me where the
> book's title comes from.


William Blake, "The Tyger"

"Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?"

--Rat, a "Watchmen" fan who can't resist a challenge.


=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>
Rat - winterhawk@*********.net http://www.magespace.net
Winterhawk's Virtual Magespace - Shadowrun Fiction and More!
DOD#1211 1999 K1200RS - "Dunkelzahn"
"The pickles are staring at me..."
<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<
Message no. 30
From: Scott W iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:54:45 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to abortion_engine."
] > "Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"
] >
] > Maybe.
] >
] > -Boondocker
] >
] I'm afraid not. [Out of curiousity, though, where's _that_ from?]

Rat nailed it. William Blake, an old English poet. I'm not a fan,
but I had to read it waaay back when. Where the heck is it from if it
ain't from that?

-Boondocker
Message no. 31
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:48:20 -0400
> ] > "Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"
> ] >
> ] > Maybe.
> ] >
> ] > -Boondocker
> ] >
> ] I'm afraid not. [Out of curiousity, though, where's _that_ from?]
>
> Rat nailed it. William Blake, an old English poet. I'm not a fan,
> but I had to read it waaay back when. Where the heck is it from if it
> ain't from that?

Ray Bradbury : Farenheit 451

I don't have the exact quote with me; it's at home, and I'm out-of-country.
Does anyone have a copy handy?

50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]
Message no. 32
From: Gorbi gbmaill@***.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:07:58 +0200
>> ] > "Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"
>> ] >
>> ] > Maybe.
>> ] >
>> ] > -Boondocker
>> ] >
>> ] I'm afraid not. [Out of curiousity, though, where's _that_ from?]
>>
>> Rat nailed it. William Blake, an old English poet. I'm not a fan,
>> but I had to read it waaay back when. Where the heck is it from if it
>> ain't from that?
>
> Ray Bradbury : Farenheit 451

No, I would say it's William Blake. We learnt that poem in our english
lessons. Maybe Bradbury quoted it too.

> 50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
> title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]


F451 is the temeprature at which paper burns. The books deals with the ban
on reading and books - AFAIK all books are burnt, thus the title.

Gorbi
Message no. 33
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:46:19 -0700
At 10:48 AM 9/19/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
>title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]
>
>
>
>

The temp at which paper, specifically books, self ignites, whcih is mostly
what the book is all about. Burning books, censorship, etc... Any self
respecting reader of sci-fi should know this, and if they don't, well....

By the way, the phrase burning bright did originally come from the Tyger
tyger burning bright, etc quote that someone else said.

Dave


Blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for overweight people
Message no. 34
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:35:17 +1000
>> 50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
>> title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]
>
>F451 is the temeprature at which paper burns. The books deals with the ban
>on reading and books - AFAIK all books are burnt, thus the title.

More to the point, isn't it the temperature at which paper spontaneously
combusts?

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *
Message no. 35
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:06:28 -0400
> >50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
> >title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]
>
> The temp at which paper, specifically books, self ignites, whcih is mostly
> what the book is all about. Burning books, censorship, etc... Any self
> respecting reader of sci-fi should know this, and if they don't, well....

Well, 50 points of Karma to you. [Tell your GM I said so.]

> By the way, the phrase burning bright did originally come from the Tyger
> tyger burning bright, etc quote that someone else said.
>
Well, I don't agree, but I don't have any evidence here with me, either. Do
you?
Message no. 36
From: abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:07:22 -0400
> >> 50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of
the
> >> title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]
> >
> >F451 is the temeprature at which paper burns. The books deals with the
ban
> >on reading and books - AFAIK all books are burnt, thus the title.
>
> More to the point, isn't it the temperature at which paper spontaneously
> combusts?
>
Aren't you a GM? You don't get Karma. :)
Message no. 37
From: Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*******.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:19:51 -0500 (CDT)
Today, abortion_engine spoke on Re: Spirit clothing:

> 50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
> title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]

-- The temperature at which books burn. (That's actually the subtitle in
the edition I saw.)

(That *is* the novel about the firefighters hired to do controlled book
burnings for someone, right?)

Da Twink Daddy
e-mail: bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ: 514984
Message no. 38
From: David Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:35:59 -0400
Da Twink Daddy wrote:
| (That *is* the novel about the firefighters hired to do controlled book
| burnings for someone, right?)
|

Actually, book burning is government policy and burning them is the new role
of firefighters (after the invention of fireproof houses.)

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 39
From: David Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:42:50 -0400
| More to the point, isn't it the temperature at which paper spontaneously
| combusts?
|
| Lady Jestyr
| ~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~
|

<nitpick firegeek mode>

Just the temp at which it ignites. If you're raising something to a certain
temperature, it's not, by definition, spontaneously igniting. Spont. Ig.
would involve something sitting in a 60 (F) degree room and suddenly just be
burning.

</nitpick firegeek mode>

anyway, yes. 451F is paper's ignition temp.

Sorry about the picking of nits above. :-D

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 40
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:03:22 +1000
><nitpick firegeek mode>
>
>Just the temp at which it ignites. If you're raising something to a certain
>temperature, it's not, by definition, spontaneously igniting. Spont. Ig.
>would involve something sitting in a 60 (F) degree room and suddenly just be
>burning.
>
></nitpick firegeek mode>

My god. And I thought *I* was pedantic! :)

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *
Message no. 41
From: David Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:54:30 -0400
| ></nitpick firegeek mode>
|
| My god. And I thought *I* was pedantic! :)
|
| Lady Jestyr

Sorry. I can't help it. The firegeek title was given to me by BlackWidow,
Phantom and others who seem to feel that I've earned it. I can't figure out
why they'd think that... :-D

*the firegeek holds hand out to be smacked*

---Dave ('s not here man)
Message no. 42
From: Daniel Brace dbrace@**********.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:39:13 -0400
>> ></nitpick firegeek mode>
>>
>> My god. And I thought *I* was pedantic! :)
>>
>> Lady Jestyr

>Sorry. I can't help it. The firegeek title was given to me by BlackWidow,
>Phantom and others who seem to feel that I've earned it. I can't figure out
>why they'd think that... :-D
>
>*the firegeek holds hand out to be smacked*
>
>---Dave ('s not here man)

I wish I could take such credit as having dubbed you Firegeek, but you
brought up on yourself, I merely pointed it out. From leaving gaming
sessions to go "play with your hose" to your little red shirt with Peanut
characters dressed as firemen. We love you love Dave, but you are a
Firegeek.

BlackWidow-
"There's no business, like Shadow business,
it's the only business we know."
-For Phantom
Message no. 43
From: Lady Jestyr jestyr@*********.html.com
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:35:32 +1000
>>Sorry. I can't help it. The firegeek title was given to me by BlackWidow,
>>Phantom and others who seem to feel that I've earned it. I can't figure out
>>why they'd think that... :-D
>>
>>*the firegeek holds hand out to be smacked*
>
>I wish I could take such credit as having dubbed you Firegeek, but you
>brought up on yourself, I merely pointed it out. From leaving gaming
>sessions to go "play with your hose" to your little red shirt with Peanut
>characters dressed as firemen. We love you love Dave, but you are a
>Firegeek.
>
>BlackWidow-

*rofl*

Ohhh... yet another image, destroyed forever.

*wanders off sniggering*

Lady Jestyr
~ Hell hath no fury like a geek with a whippersnipper ~

* jestyr@*****.com | URL: http://www.geocities.com/~jestyr *
Message no. 44
From: Zixx t_berghoff@*********.netsurf.de
Subject: Spirit clothing
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:45:34 +0200
On 19 Sep 99, at 10:48, abortion_engine wrote:

> > ] > "Tyger, tyger, burning bright,"
> > ] >
> > ] > Maybe.
> > ] >
> > ] > -Boondocker
> > ] >
> > ] I'm afraid not. [Out of curiousity, though, where's _that_ from?]
> >
> > Rat nailed it. William Blake, an old English poet. I'm not a fan,
> > but I had to read it waaay back when. Where the heck is it from if it
> > ain't from that?
>
> Ray Bradbury : Farenheit 451
>
> I don't have the exact quote with me; it's at home, and I'm out-of-country.
> Does anyone have a copy handy?
>
> 50 more points of karma to anyone who can tell me the significance of the
> title of F451. [Hey, I feel like showing off!]

I'm a bit back on my email, so someone probably answered this already,
but but 451 degrees Fahrenheit is the temperature at which paper starts
to burn.



Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx
ICQ: 9293066

A society without religion is like a crazed psychopath without a loaded .45

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