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Message no. 1
From: fauxpas@******.net (Faux Pas)
Subject: Spirit Questions
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:34:18 -0500
How much knowledge does a nature spirit have about its domain? Let's say a
Force 4 Hearth Spirit is formed and the summoner wants to know if there are
any magical wards in the area. Would the Hearth Spirit know about something
like this, or would the Spirit have to Search for the item in question using
one of the services granted?

If a spirit goes away from the summoner and is attacked or is the target of
a banishment attempt, does the summoner know this? When the attack begins?
When the spirit first takes damage? When the spirit returns triumphant or
is destroyed?

-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist At Large

"You are getting very sleepy ..."
-Alex Trebek, _The X-Files_
Message no. 2
From: Tom Pendergrast <pendergr@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
> How much knowledge does a nature spirit have about its domain? Let's say a
> Force 4 Hearth Spirit is formed and the summoner wants to know if there are
> any magical wards in the area. Would the Hearth Spirit know about something
> like this, or would the Spirit have to Search for the item in question using
> one of the services granted?

Check out the Awakenings book... it has a lot of stuff like this in it...

---Tom---
Message no. 3
From: Larry <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:50:10 -0400
At 12:34 04/21/96 -0500, Faux Pas wrote:
>How much knowledge does a nature spirit have about its domain? Let's say a
>Force 4 Hearth Spirit is formed and the summoner wants to know if there are
>any magical wards in the area. Would the Hearth Spirit know about something
>like this, or would the Spirit have to Search for the item in question using
>one of the services granted?
I don't treat it like a Search unless it's something that is actoively
hiding that needs to be a found, and Wards and barriers are not exactly
stealthy :>. If you wanted to find out who made it and where they were
that'd be different. Spirits are usually more open to summoning from
Shamans because of the relationship w/ Totems esp. if it's asnd advantaged
Spirit.(Totem's advantages apply to summoning it)



>If a spirit goes away from the summoner and is attacked or is the target of
>a banishment attempt, does the summoner know this? When the attack begins?
>When the spirit first takes damage? When the spirit returns triumphant or
>is destroyed?

Since the spirit will remain to perfom the task if the summoner leaves, no.
The shaman isn't bound to the spirit and vice versa (like an ally say).
Unless the spirit say "Yo, some guy is trying to take me out" you wouldn't know.

If it's destroyed and you try and call on it then you'd know :>

Just my 10 Nuyen (inflation ya know)



Larry
Member HTML Writers Guild http://www.hwg.org
lomion@**.cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I see the eyes but not the tears
This is my affliction"
>From "Eyes that last I saw in tears", T.S. Eliot
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Roger Ramirez <chariot@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:37:58 -0400 (EDT)
>>If a spirit goes away from the summoner and is attacked or is the target of
>>a banishment attempt, does the summoner know this? When the attack begins?
>>When the spirit first takes damage? When the spirit returns triumphant or
>>is destroyed?
>
>Since the spirit will remain to perfom the task if the summoner leaves, no.
>The shaman isn't bound to the spirit and vice versa (like an ally say).
>Unless the spirit say "Yo, some guy is trying to take me out" you wouldn't
know.
>
>If it's destroyed and you try and call on it then you'd know :>
>
>Just my 10 Nuyen (inflation ya know)
>
I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that Kyle
had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he knew. I
think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I haven't read
it in a while.

Chariot
---
chariot@*******.net
Please visit BearCat Company's ever-expanding (or simply under construction)
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Message no. 5
From: "Darrin M. Conant" <dconant@****.spectra.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:19:22 -0400
At 09:37 PM 4/21/96 -0400, Chariot wrote:
>I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that Kyle
>had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he knew. I
>think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I haven't read
>it in a while.

Yup, that is correct. The main character knew when a spirit was no longer
under his control, but not necessarily why.
--
insert Darrin's signature here
(Impressive, eh?)
Message no. 6
From: "Nichols (Jason/Christy)" <nicholch@*****.msu.edu>
Subject: Re:Spirit Questions
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 23:07:43 -0400
I agree that there isn't any direct link from spirit to shaman (or elemental
to heremetic), but that 1) if the spirit gets taken out, the shaman (or
heremetic) knows that the spirit is gone and 2) as occured in a run today -
if the spirit is attacked, it can't continue to do whatever it is trying to
do for you. So if you suddenly discover that your spirit is not using it's
aid movement or whatever it was doing when you didn't tell it to stop,
you've got a pretty good clue. But there is no inherant way to know that is
being attacked unless you see it happen.

There is my two cents worth.

Christy
<nicholch@*****.msu.edu>
Message no. 7
From: Larry <lomion@********.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 01:26:47 -0400
A
>I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that Kyle
>had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he knew. I
>think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I haven't read
>it in a while.
>
>Chariot
Was it bound? If so I'd say he knew. The nagain the books aren't exactly
stellar for rules accuracy and such :>

>
>
Larry
Member HTML Writers Guild http://www.hwg.org
lomion@**.cybernex.net
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lomion
-----------------------------------------------
"I see the eyes but not the tears
This is my affliction"
>From "Eyes that last I saw in tears", T.S. Eliot
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:46:42 +0100
Faux Pas <shadowrn@********.itribe.net> said on 12:34/21 Apr 96...

> How much knowledge does a nature spirit have about its domain? Let's say a
> Force 4 Hearth Spirit is formed and the summoner wants to know if there are
> any magical wards in the area. Would the Hearth Spirit know about something
> like this, or would the Spirit have to Search for the item in question using
> one of the services granted?

I'd say that any such question is asking the spirit to use the Search
power, and so costs a service. The TN would be low for magic-related
stuff, as well as things native to the spirit's terrain, but high(er) for
other things -- for example, IMO a nature spirit trying to find a computer
terminal should have a difficult time at it, but if asked to locate "an
oak tree" it should be able to point you in the right direction instantly.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Early to rise, early to bed, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 9
From: "Dr. Bolthy von Schotz" <bolthy@**.com>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 04:39:22 -0500 (CDT)
On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Gurth wrote:

> Faux Pas <shadowrn@********.itribe.net> said on 12:34/21 Apr 96...
>
> > How much knowledge does a nature spirit have about its domain? Let's say a
> > Force 4 Hearth Spirit is formed and the summoner wants to know if there are
> > any magical wards in the area. Would the Hearth Spirit know about something
> > like this, or would the Spirit have to Search for the item in question using
> > one of the services granted?
>
> I'd say that any such question is asking the spirit to use the Search
> power, and so costs a service. The TN would be low for magic-related
> stuff, as well as things native to the spirit's terrain, but high(er) for
> other things -- for example, IMO a nature spirit trying to find a computer
> terminal should have a difficult time at it, but if asked to locate "an
> oak tree" it should be able to point you in the right direction instantly.
>

A computer terminal would be a relatively simple matter (stress on
'relatively') for a Hearth Spirit... If your decker friend lost his
cyberdeck in the woods and you conjured up a forest spirit to find it,
that'd be something else.


|\ /\ |\ | |\
|/ \/ | \ |\ | \
|\ /\ | |/ \ |
|/ / \ | | \|

http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bolthy
"Remember: Heaven is Blue. Tomorrow, the world."
-Head of the Blue Meanies
Message no. 10
From: Russ Myrick <rm91612@****.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 06:44:53 -0700
Roger Ramirez wrote:

> I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that
> Kyle had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he
> knew. I think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I
> haven't read it in a while.
> Nah. He left a watcher to give him the heads up if something happened
... which it did.
Message no. 11
From: "Darrin M. Conant" <dconant@****.spectra.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 02:13:54 -0400
At 01:26 AM 4/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A
>>I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that Kyle
>>had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he knew. I
>>think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I haven't read
>>it in a while.
>>
>>Chariot
>Was it bound? If so I'd say he knew. The nagain the books aren't exactly
>stellar for rules accuracy and such :>

I agree that they tend to bend rules to fit the story, but this one was
written by Tom Dowd himself. I believe this was the ordinary elemental type
stuff. The character also noticed that his ally was no longer under his control.
--
insert Darrin's signature here
(Impressive, eh?)
Message no. 12
From: mbroadwa@*******.glenayre.com (Mike Broadwater)
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 13:30:41 -0500
>I agree that they tend to bend rules to fit the story, but this one was
>written by Tom Dowd himself. I believe this was the ordinary elemental type
>stuff. The character also noticed that his ally was no longer under his
>control.

To paraphrase some earlier discussion about Tom Dowds knowledge of SR
"He is only a writer, and these are just things from his view. They aren't
necessarily right."

I think that's totally wrong, but it is the views of some others. The only
answers that are accepted as fact around here are the ones in the books, and
only if they are made as a statement of fact. And then if it's agreed by
most that its actually what they meant to say, and not just the way it
should be interpretted.

Mike Broadwater
http://www.olemiss.edu/~neon
"Madness takes it's toll. Please have exact change."
Message no. 13
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 14:37:40 -0600 (MDT)
Mike Broadwater wrote:
|
|>I agree that they tend to bend rules to fit the story, but this one was
|>written by Tom Dowd himself. I believe this was the ordinary elemental type
|>stuff. The character also noticed that his ally was no longer under his
|>control.
|
|To paraphrase some earlier discussion about Tom Dowds knowledge of SR
|"He is only a writer, and these are just things from his view. They aren't
|necessarily right."
|
|I think that's totally wrong, but it is the views of some others. The only
|answers that are accepted as fact around here are the ones in the books, and
|only if they are made as a statement of fact. And then if it's agreed by
|most that its actually what they meant to say, and not just the way it
|should be interpretted.

I think that books and shadowtalk are a great source of ideas, or at least
misinformation, "Did you hear that the corps don't use quickened light
spells, for fear that some mage will ground out through them? Does that
mean that the corps have figured out how to ground out through quickened
spells? Well, hell, that's just great." Rumors and lies can be very
effective weapons too, after all.

But for posting to the list there just isn't going to be any agreement on
whether or not fiction and shadowtalk should be considered chip truth or
not for debates. And it's just to easy for someone to say, "If it aint in
the rules, it aint a rule." "But Tom Dowd wrote it!" "Then he should
have
put it in the rules."... And so on.

My philosophy is to use SR fiction and shadowtalk as theoretical
possibilities. And to keep in mind that theories in my world may not
match those of another listmember's world.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 14
From: Roger Ramirez <chariot@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:18:31 -0400 (EDT)
At 01:26 AM 4/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>A
>>I'm not sure but I think that in Burning Bright when the elemental that Kyle
>>had summoned (to protect the corp guy's apartment) had died he knew. I
>>think that's what happened in the book. I could be wrong... I haven't read
>>it in a while.
>>
>>Chariot
>Was it bound? If so I'd say he knew. The nagain the books aren't exactly
>stellar for rules accuracy and such :>
>
I'm not sure if it was bound or not and I must agree that some books don't
follow the rules... but this one was by Tom Dowd. I'm not sure if that
means anything. ;)

Chariot
---
chariot@*******.net
Please visit BearCat Company's ever-expanding (or simply under construction)
home pages!

"BearCat's Home Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/,
http://www.icanect.net/~chariot/ )
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"Saeko's Home Page" ( http://www.icanect.net/~saeko/Cat/ )
"Saeko's Lil' Advices on Making Web Page"
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Message no. 15
From: Damon Wilson <damontw@****.com>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 16:37 MDT
At 02:37 PM 4/22/96 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:

>I think that books and shadowtalk are a great source of ideas, or at least
>misinformation, "Did you hear that the corps don't use quickened light
>spells, for fear that some mage will ground out through them? Does that
>mean that the corps have figured out how to ground out through quickened
>spells? Well, hell, that's just great." Rumors and lies can be very
>effective weapons too, after all.
>
>But for posting to the list there just isn't going to be any agreement on
>whether or not fiction and shadowtalk should be considered chip truth or
>not for debates. And it's just to easy for someone to say, "If it aint in
>the rules, it aint a rule." "But Tom Dowd wrote it!" "Then he
should have
>put it in the rules."... And so on.
>
>My philosophy is to use SR fiction and shadowtalk as theoretical
>possibilities. And to keep in mind that theories in my world may not
>match those of another listmember's world.
>
>-David
>

Amen to that! I whole-heartedly agree to all of the above. I happen to run
my Shadowrun games like a Die Hard movie. I believe that Thomas Deeny once
wrote that his Shadowrun is more like a Max Headroom cyber-reporter type of
game. I run my campaign to suit both my style and that of the players that I
have. Together we form a weave of player/gm styles to make (hopefully) a
fun-for-all role-playing environment.

ATTN: I am apologizing now for any misquoting(s) of anyone's gm/player styles.

Second, I enjoy being a member of this list a whole FRAG of a lot. I may not
post everyday, but I do read and often nod in approval of what is typed on
this listserv. My first rule of role-playing games is: "If the rules don't
work, use/make some that do."

that is my .5 Nuyen worth (damn inflation) :)

Damon Wilson

damontw@****.com
Message no. 16
From: fauxpas@******.net (Faux Pas)
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 18:33:56 -0500
Yeah, the thing that bugged me was about how much knowledge a spirit has in
its domain. The SRII rulebook says right there on page 139:

"Though magicians and occultists are still arguing about whether spirits
have a separate existance of their own or whether they spring purely from
the formless energies of astral space at the time of conjuring, it does not
much matter for all practical purposes."

Ha. If the spirits did exist on their own, then the spirits would know
about specific things in their domain. If they spring that instant from
astral space, then they wouldn't.

As for the Burning Bright/Tom Dowd bit about the elemental getting snuffed,
my 8 NuYen is if it's fiction, it's not fact.

-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist At Large

"You are getting very sleepy ..."
-Alex Trebek, _The X-Files_
Message no. 17
From: "Darrin M. Conant" <dconant@****.spectra.net>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 22:27:34 -0400
Previously I wrote:
>>I agree that they [novel writers] tend to bend rules to fit the story, but
this one >>was written by Tom Dowd himself. I believe this was the ordinary
elemental type
>>stuff. The character also noticed that his ally was no longer under his
>>control.

At 01:30 PM 4/22/96 -0500, Mike Broadwater wrote:
>To paraphrase some earlier discussion about Tom Dowds knowledge of SR
>"He is only a writer, and these are just things from his view. They aren't
>necessarily right."
>
>I think that's totally wrong, but it is the views of some others. The only
>answers that are accepted as fact around here are the ones in the books, and
>only if they are made as a statement of fact. And then if it's agreed by
>most that its actually what they meant to say, and not just the way it
>should be interpretted.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of things that make up the "feel" of the
world that aren't easily covered by the rules. To define anything rigidly is
asking to make one of the most boring rulebooks ever. My point about Tom's
writing is that he should have a strong idea of the feel of the gaming world
because he was at the core of it's creation, not that what he says goes.
Thus it is unlikely that he had to change the world because the story needed
certain information to be presented that way.

One thing that SR (and some other games) has problems with is that of
individual differences within the characters. Thus someone with conjuring
skill of 6 is the same as every other (PC) mage with conjuring 6. Why can't
one mage be able to detect when their elementals are destroyed while most
can't? Because the system is designed so that characters aren't created by
random chance, but by design. Thus every character needs to be equivalent
and the laws of magic have to be fixed in stone... why can't we all be
friends and just ..... sorry, I get a bit carried away sometimes....

Bonus: Some of my favorite quotes (we write down the good ones that occur
during games)

"Guys, the next time we do something stupid, let me do it" - Eric

"How far away can I get from the door before I fire the missile?" - Chris
"About 9 meters" - GM (me)
"OK Eric, here it is." - Chris (shortly before the building collapses on Eric)

"But you're forgetting the six pack of missiles he's carrying on his back" -
said while calculating ammo explosion

"We'll keep going west until we hit America" - one players solution to being
lost
--
insert Darrin's signature here
(Impressive, eh?)
Message no. 18
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 12:34:24 +1030
>The character also noticed that his ally was no longer under his
>>control.
>
>To paraphrase some earlier discussion about Tom Dowds knowledge of SR
>"He is only a writer, and these are just things from his view. They aren't
>necessarily right."
>
>I think that's totally wrong, but it is the views of some others. The only
>answers that are accepted as fact around here are the ones in the books, and
>only if they are made as a statement of fact. And then if it's agreed by
>most that its actually what they meant to say, and not just the way it
>should be interpretted.

The relevant rules are:

Kyle used a watcher to tell him when his elemental was under attack.
Kyle knew his ally had gone free because the telepathic link ally spirits
share with their conjurers (as a base power) was broken.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 19
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:20:26 +0100
Dr. Bolthy von Schotz <shadowrn@********.itribe.net> said on 4:39/22 Apr
96...

> > I'd say that any such question is asking the spirit to use the Search
> > power, and so costs a service. The TN would be low for magic-related
> > stuff, as well as things native to the spirit's terrain, but high(er) for
> > other things -- for example, IMO a nature spirit trying to find a computer
> > terminal should have a difficult time at it, but if asked to locate "an
> > oak tree" it should be able to point you in the right direction instantly.
>
> A computer terminal would be a relatively simple matter (stress on
> 'relatively') for a Hearth Spirit... If your decker friend lost his
> cyberdeck in the woods and you conjured up a forest spirit to find it,
> that'd be something else.

I got the terms "nature spirit" and "forest spirit" mixed up... That
was
what I meant to say, yes.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Early to rise, early to bed, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 20
From: LOGGING V <LOGGING_5@**_AUI.DECAUX.VNO.mts.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Spirit Questions
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:02:22 +0000 (GMT)
How much do spirits know about their domain?

Everything I would say.A spirit will however be unable to look behind a
ward but will know it's there.I think it should be up to the GM if s/he
charges a service for such questions which concern the spirit's domain.
I do so,but only for questions which are not general knowledge like
in which direction is this cottage we are looking for or similar.

Does a mage know when his spirits take damage?

I think not,but on the other hand I'll think he will know when the spirit is
banished or destroyed.
Message no. 21
From: Matti Aistrich <aistrich@********.hkkk.fi>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:40:56 +0300 (EET DST)
On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, Dr. Bolthy von Schotz wrote:

> > power, and so costs a service. The TN would be low for magic-related
> > stuff, as well as things native to the spirit's terrain, but high(er) for
> > other things -- for example, IMO a nature spirit trying to find a computer
> > terminal should have a difficult time at it, but if asked to locate "an
> > oak tree" it should be able to point you in the right direction instantly.
> >
> A computer terminal would be a relatively simple matter (stress on
> 'relatively') for a Hearth Spirit... If your decker friend lost his
> cyberdeck in the woods and you conjured up a forest spirit to find it,
> that'd be something else.

But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
"his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?

---------------------------------------------
: Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich :
: only just : :
: good enough! : aistrich@********.hkkk.fi :
---------------------------------------------
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Message no. 22
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:21:57 GMT
Matti Aistrich writes


> But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
> "his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?
>
but the old car tyres, shadowrunners, that lonestart swat team
comming over the hill e.t.c. don't exactly belong either. You could
have a point in that the spirit will sure find it easily but by the
time it guesses right as to which foriegn object in its domain is the
cyberdeck you might have a local mountain of junk.

Mark
Message no. 23
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 22:58:26 +1030
>But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
>"his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?

It would't necessarily understand what you meant by a cyberdeck. You'd
have to describe it ("oh, it's a box, about yea long, and so wide, and
it's got lots of buttons on one side").


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 24
From: jhm@*****.com (J Hulley-Miller)
Subject: Spirit Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 19:06:47 -0400
Greetings,

30 Apr 96 22:58, Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au> wrote:

>RW> It would't necessarily understand what you meant by a cyberdeck. You'd
>RW> have to describe it ("oh, it's a box, about yea long, and so wide, and
>RW> it's got lots of buttons on one side").

"What are boxes and buttons ?" asks the Spirit...

jhm

--
J Hulley-Miller <jhm@*****.com>
____ <fidonet#1:107/330>
\/\/ "Human nature is never so weak as in a bookstore" - Henry Ward Beecher
Message no. 25
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 11:29:09 +0100
Matti Aistrich <shadowrn@********.itribe.net> said on 13:40/30 Apr 96...

> > A computer terminal would be a relatively simple matter (stress on
> > 'relatively') for a Hearth Spirit... If your decker friend lost his
> > cyberdeck in the woods and you conjured up a forest spirit to find it,
> > that'd be something else.
>
> But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
> "his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?

If it's the only thing in the forest that doesn't belong there, probably
yes. If there are loads of similar objects, getting the spirit to find your
specific cyberdeck may be a bit hard. IMHO, of course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It really makes you stop and think.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 26
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 12:18:15 +0100 (BST)
|> But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
|> "his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?
|
|If it's the only thing in the forest that doesn't belong there, probably
|yes. If there are loads of similar objects, getting the spirit to find your
|specific cyberdeck may be a bit hard. IMHO, of course.

Also, don't forget that time would be important as well.
Nature has a way of "claiming" things.
If the cyberdeck was dropped within a couple of days, the request to the
spirit could be "Find something that doesn't belong here that was dropped
'x' days ago.
As time passes, the thing starts to become integrated into the enviroment.
Moss will begin to grow over it, insects build nests, etc.

It might actually be easier or more difficult to find something that's been
there a while....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crack in |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant boulder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal subjects in:-|to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can still say FUCK! Americans can't|
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Message no. 27
From: fauxpas@******.net (Faux Pas)
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 18:05:24 -0500
>|> But wouldn't it be fairly easy for a nature spirit to find the deck in
>|> "his" forest, as it clearly doesn't belong there?
>|
>|If it's the only thing in the forest that doesn't belong there, probably
>|yes. If there are loads of similar objects, getting the spirit to find your
>|specific cyberdeck may be a bit hard. IMHO, of course.
>
>Also, don't forget that time would be important as well.

It appears that most people are siding on the line that spirits do have a
separate existance on their own (which is how one would know where things
are in its domain) rather than created out of the formless matter of astral
space (in which case one wouldn't know where things are). Which was one of
the questions that started this discussion thread.



-Thomas Deeny
Cartoonist At Large

Member of the Cat 23 "We're dedicated to keeping the game going without NMRs
even when it's Spring 1916 and we're down to a 2/2 power with a fleet out in
the Barents Sea and an army in Gascony 'fer crying out loud and facing down
two different 14 SC superpowers and there's no way that we're going to win
but dammit, the game must go on" Diplomacy Player's Group.
http://www.gslink.com/~dcain/cat23
Message no. 28
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Spirit Questions
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 08:34:28 GMT
Faux Pas writes

> It appears that most people are siding on the line that spirits do have a
> separate existance on their own (which is how one would know where things
> are in its domain) rather than created out of the formless matter of astral
> space (in which case one wouldn't know where things are). Which was one of
> the questions that started this discussion thread.
>
>
Supported at least by burning Bright. The sprits Kyle Teller used
acted much more reserved and serious when they were going against the
bugs, they acted as if they knew they were fighting a special threat.

Mark

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Spirit Questions, you may also be interested in:

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!