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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Spirits and Attack Power
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:08:34 -0400
Okay, I have been searching through the BBB, the Grimoire 2nd ed., and
Awakenings, and am still having some difficulty determining the Attack
powers/abilities of Nature spirits, Elementals, and Insect spirits.

According to the table on page 144 of the BBB, the Air Elemental doesn't
have an attack power, although the three other elemental forms do (and
these vary in force and in type of damage dealt).

The Unarmed Combat skill for a Water elemental is equal to its force, not
its reaction. This is different from the other three elemental types. Is
this correct?

Assuming that Nature Spirits should have the attack power, what should
their damage code be? Should there be different damage codes and damage
types for different nature spirits? What should their effective Unarmed
Combat skill be (equal to reaction, force, 2 x reaction, etc.)?

Some insect spirit workers don't have Unarmed Combat attacks. Is this
accurate?

What is the Unarmed Combat skill rating of an insect spirit? I have seen
it stated that it should be Reaction x 2, but where does this ruling come
from? I can't find that anywhere, and don't know of any other spirits with
this high of an attack skill.

Immunity to normal weapons:

This power seems to be listed differently in different areas. I could use
some help clarifying exactly which version of this power is accurate, of it
different versions apply to different spirits and critters.

I am inclined to take the description of this power on page 142 of the BBB
as the accurate description and apply it to all beings with this power.
However, the version of this power mentioned on page 218 of the BBB
includes a blurb about elemental attacks and armor that is not covered on
the earlier version of the power (the one on page 142). Should this be
included in the description of this power as standard?

I am so confused! This is definately one area I suggest be clarified and
perhaps streamlined in SR3. :)

Thanks for your enlightenment. I think I will go take some asprin now.

Justin :)
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Spirits and Attack Power
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:54:22 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 1:08/23 Jul 97...

> According to the table on page 144 of the BBB, the Air Elemental doesn't
> have an attack power, although the three other elemental forms do (and
> these vary in force and in type of damage dealt).

Right. The air elemental can attack with its Noxious Breath power, but not
by making a direct attack.

> The Unarmed Combat skill for a Water elemental is equal to its force, not
> its reaction. This is different from the other three elemental types. Is
> this correct?

For some reason, that's right. It doesn't make much sense, but it's what
SRII and PAoE both say.

> Assuming that Nature Spirits should have the attack power, what should
> their damage code be? Should there be different damage codes and damage
> types for different nature spirits? What should their effective Unarmed
> Combat skill be (equal to reaction, force, 2 x reaction, etc.)?

SR1 had Damage Codes for nature spirits that were exactly the same as for
elementals of the related type:

Spirit of Man as fire elemental
Spirit ot Land as earth elemental
Spirit of the Sky as air elemental
Spirit of Water as water elemental*

* this isn't 100% right: water elementals did 6D2 Stun, spirits of water
did 2D6 Stun. That could be a typo, though.

SRII somehow dropped the Damage Codes for nature spirits altogether,
making it appear as if they can't attack at all. As such, there are three
schools of thought:

1) Nature spirits are unable to attack at all; they must use their powers
to affect victims
2) They attack as humans do, using (Strength)M Stun for damage, and their
Reaction as skill (like other critters)
3) They attack like they did in SR1, that is to say using the same attacks
and skills as elementals.

I'd say it's up to the GM to decide which to use in the game.

> Some insect spirit workers don't have Unarmed Combat attacks. Is this
> accurate?

They would probably fall under #1 or #2 above, plus some have Paralyzing
Touch power which can make them useful in combat even if you say they
can't do damage at all.

> What is the Unarmed Combat skill rating of an insect spirit? I have seen
> it stated that it should be Reaction x 2, but where does this ruling come
> from? I can't find that anywhere, and don't know of any other spirits with
> this high of an attack skill.

It's Force x 2, because that's their Reaction in most cases (many queens
have Force x 3). SRII says on page 86 that critters use their Reaction as
their skill to attack, so an insect spirit gets twice its Force in dice.
(Plus its Threat Rating, which is equal to its Force as well.)

> Immunity to normal weapons:
>
> This power seems to be listed differently in different areas. I could use
> some help clarifying exactly which version of this power is accurate, of it
> different versions apply to different spirits and critters.
>
> I am inclined to take the description of this power on page 142 of the BBB
> as the accurate description and apply it to all beings with this power.
> However, the version of this power mentioned on page 218 of the BBB
> includes a blurb about elemental attacks and armor that is not covered on
> the earlier version of the power (the one on page 142). Should this be
> included in the description of this power as standard?

I tend to always go by the latest version of any published power; in this
case that's in Paranormal Animals of Europe, page 133. As I said in
another post, spirits don't get the true ItNW power, they only get a
limited form of it -- only against ranged weapons, and not against melee
attacks. Critters that have ItNW listed as one of their powers (instead
of, or in addition to, Manifestation) get the immunity against _all_
attacks except magical and elemental (water, acid, etc.) ones; against the
latter, the armor is halved.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Rudely awakened by the telephone.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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