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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Spirits and attributes
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:00:16 -0400
Does anyone else think it's odd that Spirits (Elementals and (I believe)
Nature Spirits) have higher attributes in the physical plane than in the
Astral? Since the Astral Plane is more native to them, shouldn't it be the
other way around (Initiative/Reaction is an exception to this)?

Or perhaps someone can explain it to me so it makes more sense.

Justin :)
Message no. 2
From: niteGlo Messiah <levbar@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Spirits and attributes
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:52:37 -0400
On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> Does anyone else think it's odd that Spirits (Elementals and (I believe)
> Nature Spirits) have higher attributes in the physical plane than in the
> Astral? Since the Astral Plane is more native to them, shouldn't it be
> the other way around (Initiative/Reaction is an exception to this)?
>
> Or perhaps someone can explain it to me so it makes more sense.
>
> Justin :)

For one thing, spirits are not native to the astral plane. They're native
to the metaplanes. That might explain it.
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Spirits and attributes
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 14:00:47 -0400
> From: niteGlo Messiah <levbar@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
> Date: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 9:52 AM

> On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Justin Pinnow wrote:

> > Does anyone else think it's odd that Spirits (Elementals and (I
believe)
> > Nature Spirits) have higher attributes in the physical plane than in
the
> > Astral? Since the Astral Plane is more native to them, shouldn't it be
> > the other way around (Initiative/Reaction is an exception to this)?

> > Or perhaps someone can explain it to me so it makes more sense.

> > Justin :)

> For one thing, spirits are not native to the astral plane. They're native
> to the metaplanes. That might explain it.

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that the Metaplanes are part of the
Astral Plane. If this is true, then Spirits are native to the Astral
Plane. Regardless, I am inclined to believe that Metaplanes are more
closely related to the Astral Plane than the physical plane. This doesn't
help to explain why Spirits have higher attributes in the physical plane
than they do in the Astral.

Thanks for your help, though. :)

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits and attributes
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 15:59:28 -0700
---Justin Pinnow wrote:
>
> Does anyone else think it's odd that Spirits (Elementals and (I
believe)
> Nature Spirits) have higher attributes in the physical plane than in
the
> Astral? Since the Astral Plane is more native to them, shouldn't it
be the
> other way around (Initiative/Reaction is an exception to this)?

Some attributes are higher, some are lower.

They're creatures made of magic and astral material. In the astral
plane, they're in their native habitat and form and thus everything
equals their force rating.

In the physical plane you have the interaction of the magical and
physcial creating effects. Thus some attributes may be higher and
others lower as a result of this interaction.

This is the same phenomenon that creates a dragon's breath on the
physcial plane, but doesn't grant this power on the astral. (More on
this in PAoE).

Anyways, that's just a little of the idea. Hope it makes some sense.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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Message no. 5
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits and attributes
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:50:02 -0400
> Why do spirits have higher attributes on the physical plane than the astral
plane?

IMHO because spirits have *different* attributes on the physical plane.
Remember, Physical Attributes do not exist on the astral, everything is
mental. The mental attributes (astral attributes) of a spirit do no change
from astral to material form, just as the mental attributes of a person do
not. The only thing that matters on the astral is the raw power (Force) of
the spirit.

However, a spirit creates a physical body to inhabit through the use of the
manifestation power in order to interact with the physical world. This body
conforms to the nature of the spirit (Earth spirits are strong, Air spirits
are swift, etc.). This is just like how a troll magician can be very strong
in the physical world (high Strength) but not so strong on the astral (low
Charisma).

Also, spirits in magical lore are traditionally easier to overcome in the
spirit world (the astral) than the physical world, if a magician is capable
of confronting them on the same terms (i.e., in astral form).

Steve K.

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.