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Message no. 1
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:34:48 +0000
Hi,

I just wondered: Can spirits/elementals read?

On the astral, it is impossible to read something, one gets just a more
or less vague impression on the emotional contents of the written text.

Allies, Elementals, and Nature Spirits can manifest phsically. Can they
read then? They're - as I understand it - still dual beings, seeing
both astral space and the physical world - can they read a technical
manifesto while being manifested?

This leads - of course - to the next question: Can a manifested
spirit/elemental read _computer_ _screens_?

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| 'Stop!' *BLAM!* |
| \___ __/ | ICQ#: 7 517 216 | 'Police!' *BLAM!* |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | -- Officer Axly |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me |Phoenix Command SACS|
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 2
From: Phil Ames <Philaims@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:04:36 EST
In a message dated 98-02-15 12:54:44 EST, you write:

> Allies, Elementals, and Nature Spirits can manifest phsically. Can they
> read then? They're - as I understand it - still dual beings, seeing
> both astral space and the physical world - can they read a technical
> manifesto while being manifested?
>
> This leads - of course - to the next question: Can a manifested
> spirit/elemental read _computer_ _screens_?
>

Of course, it could have been a spoof, but IIRC, someone's ally spirit
actually posted a note to shadowland in the Corporate Security Catalog.
Message no. 3
From: Wyrmy <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:10:35 -0600
> Of course, it could have been a spoof, but IIRC, someone's ally spirit
> actually posted a note to shadowland in the Corporate Security >Catalog.
One also posted in Awakenings.Wish I had my book so I could look up that
post.OH well...
Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:48:19 EST
In a message dated 98-02-15 12:54:37 EST, you write:

> just wondered: Can spirits/elementals read?
>
> On the astral, it is impossible to read something, one gets just a more
> or less vague impression on the emotional contents of the written text.

And sometimes the emotional content of a letter is much more important than
what is written ... and if the person is an empath, then the emotions become
that much more important ...

> Allies, Elementals, and Nature Spirits can manifest phsically. Can they
> read then? They're - as I understand it - still dual beings, seeing
> both astral space and the physical world - can they read a technical
> manifesto while being manifested?
>
> This leads - of course - to the next question: Can a manifested
> spirit/elemental read _computer_ _screens_?

When they use the power of Manifestation, spirits can read anything they want
... as they have now focued their power on the real world ..

Mike
Message no. 5
From: Philippe Garneau <pgarneau@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:44:36 -0500
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
À : SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Date : dimanche 15 février 1998 13:49
Objet : Re: Spirits reading (and Runners reading)


>When they use the power of Manifestation, spirits can read anything they
want
>... as they have now focued their power on the real world ..
>
>Mike

Well, i guess they have to learn how to read, just like everybody! High
intelligence don't make an entity knowledgable. :-)

Which brings education into mind... most players assumes that their
character, even those who comes from very poor backgrounds have learned to
read/write. That is not necessarily the case, if one is SINless from birth.
Of course, some corporations maintain free public school in bad parts of
town as part of their marketing/benevolent facade, but these schools have
very poor teaching qualities and educational materials, and virtually no
discipline enforcement. So learning there requires a lot of drive.

Runners with useful knowledge (and a good heart) could use their spare time
to teach these skills to young street kids, which would help the community
and add another way to meet useful contacts and add character background.

Or course, they could sell knowledge to the ones that can pay i suppose...

Have a nice day!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------

Philippe Garneau, a.k.a Filou
B. Sc. en Microbiologie

"It's gonna be a NICE evening."
Message no. 6
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:16:30 -0800
At 2:44 PM -0500 2/15/98, Philippe Garneau wrote:

>>When they use the power of Manifestation, spirits can read anything they
>want
>>... as they have now focued their power on the real world ..
>>
>>Mike
>
>Well, i guess they have to learn how to read, just like everybody! High
>intelligence don't make an entity knowledgable. :-)
>

Yes, but with sense link, you can have your ally manifest and then read
away from the astral. That little trick annoys my GM to no end.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: http://www.lowephoto.com.

--
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PS++ PE Y+ PGP- t 5 X+ R+++$ tv- b++ DI++ D--- G++ e++ h--- r++ u+
--
Message no. 7
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:09:39 +0100
>Allies, Elementals, and Nature Spirits can manifest phsically. Can they
>read then? They're - as I understand it - still dual beings, seeing
>both astral space and the physical world - can they read a technical
>manifesto while being manifested?

IMO, they continue to see emotions in an astral manner.

>This leads - of course - to the next question: Can a manifested
>spirit/elemental read _computer_ _screens_?

So no. Not IMO.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 8
From: Da Twink Daddy <twinkie@*******.DMSC.K12.AR.US>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:05:21 -0600
-----Original Message-----
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>


>>Allies, Elementals, and Nature Spirits can manifest phsically. Can they
>>read then? They're - as I understand it - still dual beings, seeing
>>both astral space and the physical world - can they read a technical
>>manifesto while being manifested?
>
>IMO, they continue to see emotions in an astral manner.


Well, I guess you are enclined to your opionion but, I would like to see a
basis for this. (not a flame, just curious.) AFAIK, being a dual being
(manifest spirit, astral percieving mage) allows you to have the benfit of
both "sets" of senses. They would be able to see the words because they are
sensitive to the physical world, although you may be of the inclination that
they don't know how to read. (Which I would agree with you on completely.)

>>This leads - of course - to the next question: Can a manifested
>>spirit/elemental read _computer_ _screens_?


As a physical being (dual=physical+astral) does it really matter weather it
is written typed to displayed on a CRT? I mean I can read my e-mail as
easily as I can read my snail mail. (Yeah, like I get any snail mail...)

Da Twink Daddy ( twinkie@*******.dmsc.k12.ar.us gilmeth@*********.com
UIN:514984)
----------
"It's a lot of fun being alive ... I wonder if my bed is made?!?" --Zippy
the
Pinhead
---------------
http://vancove.dmsc.k12.ar.us/~twinkie/
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/
Message no. 9
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:38:31 +0100
>Well, I guess you are enclined to your opionion but, I would like to see a
>basis for this. (not a flame, just curious.) AFAIK, being a dual being
>(manifest spirit, astral percieving mage) allows you to have the benfit of
>both "sets" of senses. They would be able to see the words because they are
>sensitive to the physical world, although you may be of the inclination that
>they don't know how to read. (Which I would agree with you on completely.)

Again IMO (this is to prevent any flame war :) I think spirits aren't real
dual beings like a dragon for exemple.
They are primarily spiritual beings with the capacity to manifest on the
physical plane. This manifestation gives them use of powers (yep. IMO the
powers of spirits can only be used on the physical plane) by interaction
between astral energies and the barrier between astral and physical plane.
They don't get a physical body as in a human way when they manifest but do
create a physical interaction with their astral form. I think that their
perception remains the same as when they were in astral plane because it's
part of their inner nature.
I also do think that when a mage manifests (in a different manner than
spirits), he continues seeing htings around him like in astral and not in a
more physical way.

Another explanation is that you need an eye to see physically. I mean a
physical eye like the one we (humans) or animals use. It's just a matter of
physical sciences (optics). When a spirit manifests, I don't think he has
such eyes but insteed a form being the consequence of his astral energy
interacting with physical plane. Thus, it doesn't have the same perception.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 10
From: Da Twink Daddy <twinkie@*******.DMSC.K12.AR.US>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:31:02 -0600
-----Original Message-----
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>


<snip: I can agree with that.>

>Another explanation is that you need an eye to see physically. I mean a
>physical eye like the one we (humans) or animals use. It's just a matter of
>physical sciences (optics). When a spirit manifests, I don't think he has
>such eyes but insteed a form being the consequence of his astral energy
>interacting with physical plane. Thus, it doesn't have the same perception.


What about ally spirits or free spirits that have a homo sapien-esque form.
They will have eyes. Will these eyes be able to read?

Da Twink Daddy ( twinkie@*******.dmsc.k12.ar.us gilmeth@*********.com
UIN:514984)
----------
You can't sit on the lid of progress. If you do, you will be blown to
pieces.
--Henry Kaiser
----------
http://vancove.dmsc.k12.ar.us/~twinkie/
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/3759/
Message no. 11
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Spirits reading...
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:44:49 +0100
><snip: I can agree with that.>
>
>>Another explanation is that you need an eye to see physically. I mean a
>>physical eye like the one we (humans) or animals use. It's just a matter of
>>physical sciences (optics). When a spirit manifests, I don't think he has
>>such eyes but insteed a form being the consequence of his astral energy
>>interacting with physical plane. Thus, it doesn't have the same perception.
>
>
>What about ally spirits or free spirits that have a homo sapien-esque form.
>They will have eyes. Will these eyes be able to read?

I would allow these spirits to read at these conditions :
* Ally spirit : They can read if they are hommonculi. Otherwise, they are
like any other spirit and thus can't read.
* Free spirit : They can read on the condition they have a real form i.e.
without the manifestation power. IMO, this is only possible if they possess
someone otherwise they can't.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"

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