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Message no. 1
From: Martin Baute <solar@***.UNI-BIELEFELD.DE>
Subject: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 17:07:43 MEZ
I posted this one to rec.games.frp.cyber, but the response was nowhere near
help-
ful. I hope this list can be of more help.

Situation: Some runners make their point against a robot (like Terminator). The
shaman conjures a forest spirit and orders it to attack (in manifest form),
as a diversion.

- is the robot able to recognize the spirit as a threat or is this some magic
a machine cannot even sense?
- What is the target number for the spirit to attack? 4 as for melee, 10 for
highly processed material or whatever?
- IMPORTANT: If the robot attacks, what dice are used, as the robot surely does
not have "strength of mind" (Willpower) that is required to hurt a spirit?

Aside from the above, some other questions arised in the discussion:

- If a rigger attacks a spirit with his drone, is his willpower considered valid
(despite the remote high-tech control)?
- If a spirit in manifest form is physically destroyed (e.g., earthslide etc.),
is the astral component destroyed too or is the manifest form of a spirit only a
reflection of his astral presence, which could not be harmed physically?

I hope there are some good opinions out there that sound logical. The newsgroup
did not came up with anything too bright...
Solar
Message no. 2
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 16:55:49 GMT
Well I will try to reply but put simply there are no standard answers to
some of your questions.

> Situation: Some runners make their point against a robot (like Terminator).
The
> shaman conjures a forest spirit and orders it to attack (in manifest form),
> as a diversion.

> - is the robot able to recognize the spirit as a threat or is this some magic
> a machine cannot even sense?

The robot will be able to see a manifest spirit but not an astral one.

> - What is the target number for the spirit to attack? 4 as for melee, 10 for
> highly processed material or whatever?

In melee use a TN of 4. For special powers such as accident use the figure
for highly processed.

> - IMPORTANT: If the robot attacks, what dice are used, as the robot surely
does
> not have "strength of mind" (Willpower) that is required to hurt a spirit?

Tricky question, as the manifest spirit is indeed present then it can indeed
be hurt. For a fudge give the spirit armour = force * 3 rather than the
regular force * 2.

> Aside from the above, some other questions arised in the discussion:
> - If a rigger attacks a spirit with his drone, is his willpower considered
valid
> (despite the remote high-tech control)?

Again good question, if the drone had been given orders to attack a spirit and
left alone then it is no more than a robot, so you could use the fudge above.

If he is controlling it personally then I would be tempted to use the riggers
willpower, this way drones can attack spirits (a fact proven by the book
'Choose Your Enemies Carefully').

> - If a spirit in manifest form is physically destroyed (e.g., earthslide
etc.),
> is the astral component destroyed too or is the manifest form of a spirit only
a
> reflection of his astral presence, which could not be harmed physically?

The spirit is disrupted it goes to it's metaplane where it stays for 28 days.

> I hope there are some good opinions out there that sound logical. The
newsgroup
> did not came up with anything too bright...

I hope this has helped.

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/
Message no. 3
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 01:58:22 -0600
BTW, I have GURPS Vehilces Stats for the terminator. . . :)

>- is the robot able to recognize the spirit as a threat or is this some magic
>a machine cannot even sense?
It can probably see the spirit as well as a human can. Manifest
would definitely be picked up as a threat; whether or not the "faint shimmering"
mentioned for spirits who are are only astally present is recognized as a
threat is up to the GM.

>- What is the target number for the spirit to attack? 4 as for melee, 10 for
>highly processed material or whatever?
Highly Processed.

>- IMPORTANT: If the robot attacks, what dice are used, as the robot surely does
>not have "strength of mind" (Willpower) that is required to hurt a spirit?
I would argue that since the droid has no soul/mind/Essence of its
own, it can't hurt spirits unless they are somehow vulnerable to physical
attacks. "If I only had a brain".

>- If a rigger attacks a spirit with his drone, is his willpower considered valid
>(despite the remote high-tech control)?

You mean melee, right? Not sending in DeathDrone with it Vindicators and
mowing the spirit. . .

You might make it work like spell targeting, ruling that the Willpower is
like sending out the power of your spirit through the Astral to bash the
enemy spirit. It would require optical imagin, which is further complicated
by the fact that the Rigger is hardwired in.

I would say no, but I can also see reasons why it would be possible.



J Roberson
Message no. 4
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.CANON.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 15:44:49 +1100
Martin Baute asks:

> - is the robot able to recognize the spirit as a threat or is this some magic
> a machine cannot even sense?
Sure - it's physically manifest. Eg. shows up on sec. cameras.

> - IMPORTANT: If the robot attacks, what dice are used, as the robot surely
> does not have "strength of mind" (Willpower) that is required to hurt a
> spirit?
Or you could argue it had a very high level of will/determination -
very single-minded. There's little drama in having the shaman's
`henchmen' deal with the threat; if I was GMing this, I'd give the
robot it's full attack skills against the spirit, as though it were
an ordinary opponent. Maybe I'm just nasty.

> - If a rigger attacks a spirit with his drone, is his willpower considered
> valid (despite the remote high-tech control)?
It does if you're attacking with a gun; maybe I'd require you to have direct
line of sight...

> - If a spirit in manifest form is physically destroyed (e.g., earthslide

> etc.), is the astral component destroyed too or is the manifest form of a
> spirit only a reflection of his astral presence, which could not be harmed
> physically?
I think it says in the Grimoire I that it sends it back to its Metaplane,
and it can't return for a month. (Or maybe that's a house rule.)

Hope that helps.

luke
Message no. 5
From: Ben Jordan <jordanbd@***.BELOIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 15:50:18 +22310502
I was under the impression that you could fire on a spirit with a gun all
you want to--it just get massive armor and only a rigger has a chance to
hurt it. The will power bit is for melee. I am sure I saw it somewhere--I
will have to look it up when I have free time.

As far as I know if you hit a manifested spirit with a ripple rocket it is
still one dead spirit. Provided it isn't really big. Them's bad news.
--

Ben-ha-meen
--you have been watching that test pattern for hours--
--yeah, but I want to see how it end--
Message no. 6
From: The Powerhouse <P.C.Steele@*********.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Spirits/Willpower
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1993 15:53:58 GMT
> I was under the impression that you could fire on a spirit with a gun all
> you want to--it just get massive armor and only a rigger has a chance to
> hurt it. The will power bit is for melee. I am sure I saw it somewhere--I
> will have to look it up when I have free time.

Rules for attacking spirits are:

Ranged combat (including crossbows)
Willpower is used as the attacking skill and the spirit has armour = 2 x force

Melee and ranged combat (thrown and long bows etc)
Use willpower as the attacking skill but the spirit gets no armour.

Melee with a magic weapon (includes killing hands)
Use the appropiate combat skill, spirit gets no armour (this is why phys ads
kick the s**t out of spirits)

Drones remotely controlled by a rigger with VCR
No proper rules exist but I suggestted using the ranged combat rules

Robots. drones running off autopilots, drones not running through a VCR
Again no proper rules exist but I suggested that you use the ranged combat
rules but give the spirit armour = force x 3

> As far as I know if you hit a manifested spirit with a ripple rocket it is
> still one dead spirit. Provided it isn't really big. Them's bad news.

This would make sense

Phill.
--
Phillip Steele - Email address P.C.Steele@***.ac.uk | An Uzi a day keeps the
Department Of Electrical & Electronic Engineering | politicians at bay O O
University Of Newcastle Upon Tyne, England | |
Land of the mad Geordies | The Powerhouse \_/

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