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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:29 +0100
Paul Gettle said on 15:29/ 5 May 98...

> I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
> since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
> actually in style.
>
> Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
> on.

The encounters chapter is the worst bit of Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
maps are okay, though very basic (compare them to those in the
Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you want an airport map? Okay."))
and the archetypes and contacts are good to expand the game world, but the
encounters...

Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up it's one that requires too much
preparation or won't fit into the situation the PCs are in. Why are there
no simple encounters of the "Three gangers try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 2
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:50:05 +0200
>> I've been generally laughing at the absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
>> since... oh, since when the outfit the decker archtype wears was
>> actually in style.
>>
>> Only the last 20 pages of it were even worth the paper it was printed
>> on.
>
>The encounters chapter is the worst bit of Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
>maps are okay, though very basic (compare them to those in the
>Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you want an airport map? Okay."))
>and the archetypes and contacts are good to expand the game world, but the
>encounters...

I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and contacts are almost the sames as
in the SR2 screen, maps are not good (IMO), especially the matrix codes and
the encounters are... Beurrr...
I never heard of this one. What is the detail level of maps ? Do they all
fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything in addition to maps ?

>Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up it's one that requires too much
>preparation or won't fit into the situation the PCs are in. Why are there
>no simple encounters of the "Three gangers try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
>we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...

Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
place : Street, Bar, etc.
I'll think about some ideas and will report it.

- Cobra.
Message no. 3
From: Paul Yan <bushidoboy@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:23:46 -0700
---Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR> wrote:
> >> I've been generally laughing at the
absurdity of the Sprawl Sites book
> >> since... oh, since when the outfit the
decker archtype wears was
> >> actually in style.

Ouch! I remember that too, and now it
gives me the shivers.

> >> Only the last 20 pages of it were even
worth the paper it was printed on.
> >
> >The encounters chapter is the worst bit of
Sprawl Sites, definitely. The
> >maps are okay, though very basic (compare
them to those in the
> >Millennium's End GM Companion... ("What, you
want an airport map? Okay."))

Most maps I have seen have only been
mediocre. MOst games wish to keep their maps
very bland so that the GM's can monkey around as
they wish.

> >and the archetypes and contacts are good to
expand the game world, but the
> >encounters...
>
> I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and
contacts are almost the sames as
> in the SR2 screen, maps are not good (IMO),
especially the matrix codes and
> the encounters are... Beurrr...
> I never heard of this one. What is the detail
level of maps ? Do they all
> fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything
in addition to maps ?
>
> >Every #*#&%^ time I decide to roll one up
it's one that requires too much
> >preparation or won't fit into the situation
the PCs are in. Why are there
> >no simple encounters of the "Three gangers
try to rob the PCs" kind? Maybe
> >we'll have to write a net.book with
encounters like that...

A good idea if you dislike the maps and
sites so much is to go to some of your favorite
places and take pictures of them. I did that
once and went to my neighborhood MacDonalds and
used their layout for a restaurant scene in a
game. That challenged the players to use an
environment to their full potential. No
favortism, no easy answers. The challenge is
the fun.

===
-Paul H. Yan a.k.a. Bushidoboy@**********.com/
======={=================="

What if there were no hypothetical situations?
-- Andrew Kohlsmith



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Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
Cobra said on 16:50/ 6 May 98...

> I don't like Sprawl Sites. Archetypes and contacts are almost the sames as
> in the SR2 screen

Yeah, that's cause FASA reprinted the contacts section of Sprawl Sites and
the archetypes from a nmber of books that didn't make it into SR2 in that
contacts booklet... Before the SRII GM screen came out, Sprawl Sites was a
good thing to own for the extra contacts and archetypes. (And also part of
the reason why I never bothered to buy the GM screen until I found one
cheap on a second-hand games stand at a con.)

> I never heard of this one. What is the detail level of maps ? Do they all
> fit in a 205* environment ? Is there anything in addition to maps ?

Assuming "this one" means the Millennium's End GM's Companion I referred
to, the maps are very high quality, with a semi-3D effect that shows how
high things are -- unlike in Sprawl Sites where you have to guess -- and a
good description of what's where.

Naturally it's all aimed at the ME game, which is set in the modern world
(more or less -- it's slightly more chaotic) but almost all the maps are
usable for Shadowrun, IMHO. Picking a few randomly: large bar, trendy
restaurant, convenience store, art gallery or museum, large office
building, international airport, modern villa, corporate compound,
terrorist training camp, bunkers, luxury yacht, and a lot more.

About 1/3rd of the book is devoted to the maps. The rest has generic GMing
advice (the kind all these books give), adventure elements and ideas
(useful for SR as well), computer networks (not really useful for SR),
NPCs (again not useful for SR except for general ideas), lists to give
names to NPCs (good idea, but <plug> I prefer GameName
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/pw/gameprogs.html </plug> :) organization
diagrams of various, well, organizations (could be useful in SR), and a
short list of movies relevant to the ME game world. All in all if you play
ME then this is a very good resource, for SR I find it quite handy mainly
because of the maps, but then I play ME as well so I have it on my shelf
anyway. I suggest you look through it in a game store before making up
your mind.

> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>
> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
> place : Street, Bar, etc.
> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.

And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:57:20 +0100
Paul Yan said on 8:23/ 6 May 98...

> A good idea if you dislike the maps and sites so much is to go to
> some of your favorite places and take pictures of them. I did that once
> and went to my neighborhood MacDonalds and used their layout for a
> restaurant scene in a game. That challenged the players to use an
> environment to their full potential. No favortism, no easy answers.
> The challenge is the fun.

An easy way to make sure you get a location correct is to try and use
those you yourself have been and know reasonably well. When my players
went to see a fixer in an abandoned store, I used the layout of a store I
worked in a few years ago, for example. The advantage is that you'll have
a good picture of what is where (and why) and can hopefully make the
players see it more easily than when you're trying to come up with a
believable building on the fly.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
You're gonna like it, but not a lot.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 6
From: Cobra <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:02:57 +0200
>> >we'll have to write a net.book with encounters like that...
>>
>> Good idea. We should classify them by locations. The first group would be
>> the security rating (AAA to Z) and the second the place where it takes
>> place : Street, Bar, etc.
>> I'll think about some ideas and will report it.
>
>And we need to keep it simple -- Sprawl Sites has half-adventures, not
>encounters. Hmm... is this an idea for the next PW book?

It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
A good exemple could be like this :
* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
case with him.
** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he has).
** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
Y worth).

- Cobra.
Message no. 7
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Sprawl Sites (was Re: Feeling old)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:04:50 -0400
Once upon a time, Cobra wrote;

>It's not that simple. If it's only encounters, it can turn into random
>monsters... If this can arise, I think it could be interesting to give
>simple plots which can become bigger or keep small.
>A good exemple could be like this :
>* The runners see a corp guy bleeding in a dark alley. He has an attache
>case with him.
>** Short plot : The poor guy only got shot while he was coming home. He
>barely escaped the gangers but will die here if the runners don't do
>anything. If they save him, he can reward them with 500 Y (that's all he
>has).
>** Long plot : The man is a corporate employee who tried to escape his
>corp. To make his life easier, he took some stuff with him. After having
>arranged an extraction with an fixer. This one tried to bouble cross him.
>He barely escaped but was deadly hit. An equip of runners is on his trail
>as well as a corp strike/recovery team. The stuff is hot but not sufficient
>enough for the corp to send expert runners after him (something like 30,000
>Y worth).

I think we've found a good example of how some of these things should be
set up. A window dressing option should be presented as well. Sometimes
is nice to have background that has no plot attatched. Gurth, are you
ready to be editor to a net book with a general list contibution. Hell, I
might even add something.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

I swear to tell
the Truth, the partial Truth, or something like the Truth.

I am MC23

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