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Message no. 1
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: SR1 Question
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:07:22 MEZ-1MESZ
I already wrote this message on monday but it seems some nasty IC
cought it before it reached the list server ...

I'd like to know if it was easier to conjure elementals in SR1 than
in SR2?
Why?



Spoilers for Dark Angle Adventure










some more spoilers








now to the end








there we are:


I want to play Dark Angel with my group. It has been reworked for SR2
rules but I wondered how much elementals the mages have.

Almost every mage has a number of elementals equal to his charisma.
That's no problem by itself but it costs immense nuyen to keep them.
I think it must have been cheaper in the first edition. And I think
it must have been easier to conjure them. For Edward Crull has
conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
last has come, wouldn't it?

Can someone help me with this?
Message no. 2
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:32:07 +0100
And verily, did HAUPT ULRICH FB08 hastily scribble thusly...
|Spoilers for Dark Angle Adventure
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|some more spoilers
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|now to the end
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|there we are:
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|I want to play Dark Angel with my group. It has been reworked for SR2
|rules but I wondered how much elementals the mages have.
|
|Almost every mage has a number of elementals equal to his charisma.
|That's no problem by itself but it costs immense nuyen to keep them.
|I think it must have been cheaper in the first edition. And I think
|it must have been easier to conjure them. For Edward Crull has
|conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
|to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
|last has come, wouldn't it?

Why? Elementals can be "put on hold" indefinately.
It's only if you keep them nearby that their services atert to get used up.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 3
From: Andrew Costello <a.j.k.costello@******.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:34:29 +0100
For Edward Crull has
>conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
>to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
>last has come, wouldn't it?



An Elemental will stick around until the mage uses up the services (NO TIME
LIMIT), whereas a nature spirit disappears at sun set or sun down. The
balancing factor for this is that it Take money (1,000*Force) and time
(Force*Hrs) to conjour elementals, whereas shaman can whip a nature spirit
up on the spot.
Message no. 4
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:40:28 +0200
According to HAUPT ULRICH FB08, at 17:07 on 9 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

[spoiler space snipped]

> For [name deleted for spoiler reasons] has
> conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
> to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
> last has come, wouldn't it?

Elementals stay around until their services run out. That means that if
you summon an elemental, and tell it to go wait wherever elementals wait
for you to call them, you can keep it on a leash for years or more. Then
you spend a Simple Action to call it to you, and you can give it an order.

If you were talking about nature spirits, then yes, the first one would
have vanished long before the last one was summoned. However, this is not
the case with elementals.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Guardian <atreloar@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:02:10 +1000
> > For [name deleted for spoiler reasons] has
> > conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
> > to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
> > last has come, wouldn't it?
>
> Elementals stay around until their services run out. That means that if
> you summon an elemental, and tell it to go wait wherever elementals > wait
for you to call them, you can keep it on a leash for years or
> more. Then you spend a Simple Action to call it to you, and you can
> give it an order.
>
> If you were talking about nature spirits, then yes, the first one would
> have vanished long before the last one was summoned. However,
> this is not the case with elementals.


Err, last I checked, nature spirits hung around until dawn/dusk... Or is
that only for druids?

Anyway, sure, the dawn/dusk thing would have happened anyway in the 25
hours.

Watchers, IIRC, are the ones that hang around for a number of hours, in this
case 5.

Guardian.

Yes, for you old timers, it's me, back again... :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Adam Treloar
atreloar@*********.com
Guardian http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:56:01 +0200
According to Guardian, at 4:02 on 10 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Err, last I checked, nature spirits hung around until dawn/dusk... Or is
> that only for druids?

Nature spirits stay around until the next sunrise or sunset, whichever
happens sooner. So in the middle of the summer, when you have days of,
say, 16 hours at a guess, that's the longest you could have a nature
spirit around (nobody mention the shaman being on one of the poles,
'kay?). Since you can summon nature spirits in the blink of an eye, you
could have a whole lot of them around for that time, provided you can
access a number of different domain types and give all of them a
continuous service to perform.

I wasn't completely clear in what I was saying in my last message, though.
What I meant was that if elementals had the same duration as nature
spirits, the first one would long have gone before the last one was
summoned. But this isn't an issue, because it's simply not the case.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: HAUPT ULRICH FB08 <sandman@****.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:18:51 MEZ-1MESZ
Gurth answered to my Question:

> > For [name deleted for spoiler reasons] has
> > conjuring at 5 and he has 5 elementals at force 5. It takes 25 hours
> > to achieve it. In SR2 the first Elemental would vanish before hte
> > last has come, wouldn't it?
>
> Elementals stay around until their services run out. That means that if
> you summon an elemental, and tell it to go wait wherever elementals wait
> for you to call them, you can keep it on a leash for years or more. Then
> you spend a Simple Action to call it to you, and you can give it an order.

<snip nature spirits>

Thanks Gurth, Spike and Guardian for answering!

The reason I asked is that I thought that after 24 hours
automatically one service is used up. So that an elemental summoned
with 7 successes ( = 3 services) stays for a maximum of 3 days!

I reread the section in SR2 but I could not find the line which says
you can "store" an elemental somewhere in astral.

OTOH 3 answeres saying the same and no other complain from someone
else show me that I am the one who can't read.
Therefor I'd like to know where it is said that elemantals can be
stored in astral indefinetily and when comes the 24 hours rule in
play?
(All in SR2 - until I can get SR3 in Germany)

Sandman
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR1 Question
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:50:23 +0200
According to HAUPT ULRICH FB08, at 13:18 on 10 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> The reason I asked is that I thought that after 24 hours
> automatically one service is used up.

That's true, but only if you keep the elemental hanging around on the
astral or physical planes. If you send it off to the metaplanes to wait
for you to call it up, then it doesn't use any services (unless that got
changed in SR3. Anyone know?)

> So that an elemental summoned
> with 7 successes ( = 3 services) stays for a maximum of 3 days!

It's one service per success, not one service per two successes.

> I reread the section in SR2 but I could not find the line which says
> you can "store" an elemental somewhere in astral.

It's on page 140 of SRII, and I admit it's open to interpretation and
debate, but the way it's generally explained is that elementals in astral
space or the physical plane cost one service per 24 hours, while they can
be kept in their metaplane indefinitely. SR3 does a much better job of
describing this, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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