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Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 20:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
At 01:11 PM 5/21/96 -0500, you wrote:

>"Three or more successes allow the magician to enter the target's
>subconscious" (pg. 153, SRII)
>
>Which will give you information on what really happened. The detection
>spell table on pg. 152 states that with 4 successes you will get accurate
>and detailed information. Now, let's make the subject voluntary. He
>suppresses his willpower down to one, the mage casts his mind probe with @**
>dice or more. He gets 8 successes. Wow. I'd say that'd give you pretty
>much anything you'd want.

You can't "suppress" your willpower. The best you could do would be to
design a spell for a voluntary subject with a success target of 4, the
number, I believe, for any spell with a voluntary subject.

The only other conceivable way of doing this would be to cast Reduce
Willpower -n first, but that's a waste of time and effort.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 2
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:51:26 -0500
At 08:40 PM 5/22/96 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>You can't "suppress" your willpower. The best you could do would be to
>design a spell for a voluntary subject with a success target of 4, the
>number, I believe, for any spell with a voluntary subject.

Now, I don't find it sensible that you can't suppress your willpower. In
fact, if you were voluntary, then you should be able to add your willpower
to the dice of the mind probe. You want to help them find out more, not
resist them, so why should it be harder on them when your will is focused to
them finding out more?

The voluntary target mind probe might be a good idea. I know that there is
no provision in the rules for adding willpower and I can't seem to find one
for suppressing it either. Which seems very wrong to me. There should be
something like it. It doesn't make sense to not have something like it.
Yet still, the rules aren't there for it. I would allow it, but that's me.

-------------------------------------
"I was thinking of the immortal words
of Socrates, who said: I drank what?"
-- Real Genius
-------------------------------------
TopCat at the bottom...
Message no. 3
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
At 07:51 PM 5/22/96 -0500, you wrote:
>At 08:40 PM 5/22/96 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:

>>You can't "suppress" your willpower. The best you could do would be to
>>design a spell for a voluntary subject with a success target of 4, the
>>number, I believe, for any spell with a voluntary subject.
>
>Now, I don't find it sensible that you can't suppress your willpower. In
>fact, if you were voluntary, then you should be able to add your willpower
>to the dice of the mind probe. You want to help them find out more, not
>resist them, so why should it be harder on them when your will is focused to
>them finding out more?

Yeah, and since Heal and Treat are voluntary, the target should be allowed
to add his Will or Body in dice to the caster's successes too!

Yeah, right, kid.

>The voluntary target mind probe might be a good idea. I know that there is
>no provision in the rules for adding willpower and I can't seem to find one
>for suppressing it either. Which seems very wrong to me. There should be
>something like it. It doesn't make sense to not have something like it.
>Yet still, the rules aren't there for it. I would allow it, but that's me.

Yeah, whatever.


--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 4
From: TopCat <topcat@******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 01:28:10 -0500
Ubiquitous wrote:
>Yeah, and since Heal and Treat are voluntary, the target should be allowed
>to add his Will or Body in dice to the caster's successes too!
>Yeah, right, kid.

Heal and treat are health spells, not detection. You aren't in any way
shape or form healing the targets thoughts with a mind probe. In fact, a
mind probe spell has nothing whatsoever to do with the aura of the target.
So yeah, I could be right.

>>The voluntary target mind probe might be a good idea. I know that there is
>>no provision in the rules for adding willpower and I can't seem to find one
>>for suppressing it either. Which seems very wrong to me. There should be
>>something like it. It doesn't make sense to not have something like it.
>>Yet still, the rules aren't there for it. I would allow it, but that's me.
>Yeah, whatever.

It doesn't make sense to you that someone with a 6 willpower would be easier
to mind probe than someone with a 1 willpower under voluntary conditions?
The fact that a 6 willpower could focus his thoughts in a much clearer
manner would help a mind probe immensely. Whereas the unfocused 1 would be
hardly any help at all. Admittedly, it isn't a rule, I never said it was.
But I would believe that it could be at the very least a house rule and a
legit one.

-------------------------------------
"I was thinking of the immortal words
of Socrates, who said: I drank what?"
-- Real Genius
-------------------------------------
TopCat at the bottom...
Message no. 5
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Thu, 23 May 96 17:30:36 +1030
>It doesn't make sense to you that someone with a 6 willpower would be easier
>to mind probe than someone with a 1 willpower under voluntary conditions?
>The fact that a 6 willpower could focus his thoughts in a much clearer
>manner would help a mind probe immensely. Whereas the unfocused 1 would be
>hardly any help at all.

The body does not CONCIOUSLY resist spells, TC... It tries subconsciously
to prevent spells from damaging you. Given the description of what Mind
Probe does to you in "Plus Ca Change", it seems that Mind Probe is a
pretty nauseating spell to be subjected to, so your mind tries to fit it.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 6
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 06:53:13 -0400 (EDT)
At 01:28 AM 5/23/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Ubiquitous wrote:

>>Yeah, and since Heal and Treat are voluntary, the target should be allowed
>>to add his Will or Body in dice to the caster's successes too!
>>Yeah, right, kid.
>
>Heal and treat are health spells, not detection. You aren't in any way
>shape or form healing the targets thoughts with a mind probe. In fact, a
>mind probe spell has nothing whatsoever to do with the aura of the target.
>So yeah, I could be right.

If you treat one set of spells like that, you have to remain consistent with
the rest. You can't have it both ways.

>>>The voluntary target mind probe might be a good idea. I know that there is
>>>no provision in the rules for adding willpower and I can't seem to find one
>>>for suppressing it either. Which seems very wrong to me. There should be
>>>something like it. It doesn't make sense to not have something like it.
>>>Yet still, the rules aren't there for it. I would allow it, but that's me.
>>Yeah, whatever.
>
>It doesn't make sense to you that someone with a 6 willpower would be easier
>to mind probe than someone with a 1 willpower under voluntary conditions?
>The fact that a 6 willpower could focus his thoughts in a much clearer
>manner would help a mind probe immensely. Whereas the unfocused 1 would be
>hardly any help at all. Admittedly, it isn't a rule, I never said it was.
>But I would believe that it could be at the very least a house rule and a
>legit one.

I still disagree. The best you could hope for would be to make an unresisted
roll against the target's Willpower.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 7
From: PDL@****.dacom.co.kr
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Fri, 24 May 96 11:04:46 PDT
---------------Original Message---------------
At 08:40 PM 5/22/96 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:
>You can't "suppress" your willpower. The best you could do would be to
>design a spell for a voluntary subject with a success target of 4, the
>number, I believe, for any spell with a voluntary subject.

Now, I don't find it sensible that you can't suppress your willpower. In
fact, if you were voluntary, then you should be able to add your willpower
to the dice of the mind probe. You want to help them find out more, not
resist them, so why should it be harder on them when your will is focused to
them finding out more?

The voluntary target mind probe might be a good idea. I know that there is
no provision in the rules for adding willpower and I can't seem to find one
for suppressing it either. Which seems very wrong to me. There should be
something like it. It doesn't make sense to not have something like it.
Yet still, the rules aren't there for it. I would allow it, but that's me.
----------End of Original Message----------
I do not believe you have to suppress your willpower. You just
don't resist the spell. As for the mechanics, You make a
test versus a target number of four. The number of successes
determine the affect of the spell. There is no resistance
test because the recipient of the spell does not wish to
resist. As for a rule, check under "Determining Spell Result".
(SRII, pg. 131) It reads "If no Spell resistance test is
necessary, the successes generated from the Spell success test are used directly, in
accordance with the spell
description, to determine the final result."

Patrick
Message no. 8
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Building a better Mind Probe ...
Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 18:16:25 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:04 AM 5/24/96 PDT, you wrote:

>I do not believe you have to suppress your willpower. You just
>don't resist the spell. As for the mechanics, You make a
>test versus a target number of four. The number of successes
>determine the affect of the spell. There is no resistance
>test because the recipient of the spell does not wish to
>resist. As for a rule, check under "Determining Spell Result".
>(SRII, pg. 131) It reads "If no Spell resistance test is
>necessary, the successes generated from the Spell success test are used
>directly, in accordance with the spell description, to determine the final
>result."

Thank you!
I knew I was right, but couldn't recall why. I guess I should've looked in
my books. Remember, never make a rule if it already exists.

I still suspect you'd have to create a Mind Probe Voluntary Subject spell,
but that's still debatable.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer

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