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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 20:48:41 -0400 (EDT)
At 09:32 PM 6/17/96 +0100, Spike wrote:

>|Oh, yes. Does target modifiers in the condition monitor apply also to drain
>|rolls?
>
>Damage modifiers affect all rolls, be it casting, drain, whatever....
>(They even reduce initiative remember).

No, Spike, rolls which resist damage are not modified in the 2nd edit.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 2
From: "Spike" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 10:38:23 +0100 (BST)
|
|At 09:32 PM 6/17/96 +0100, Spike wrote:
|
|>|Oh, yes. Does target modifiers in the condition monitor apply also to drain
|>|rolls?
|>
|>Damage modifiers affect all rolls, be it casting, drain, whatever....
|>(They even reduce initiative remember).
|
|No, Spike, rolls which resist damage are not modified in the 2nd edit.

Aren't they? Oh. Ooops.
I think they should, because it's harder to concentrate when you're in pain.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & something | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:19:59 -0400 (EDT)
At 10:38 AM 6/18/96 +0100, Spike wrote:
>|At 09:32 PM 6/17/96 +0100, Spike wrote:

>|>Damage modifiers affect all rolls, be it casting, drain, whatever....
>|>(They even reduce initiative remember).
>|
>|No, Spike, rolls which resist damage are not modified in the 2nd edit.
>
>Aren't they? Oh. Ooops.
>I think they should, because it's harder to concentrate when you're in pain.

Check out SR2 p112 at the top right-hand side.

I'd think they wouldn't, since resisting damage really isn't a conscious
act, it just happens.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 4
From: "Spike" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:26:18 +0100 (BST)
|>|>Damage modifiers affect all rolls, be it casting, drain, whatever....
|>|>(They even reduce initiative remember).
|>|
|>|No, Spike, rolls which resist damage are not modified in the 2nd edit.
|>
|>Aren't they? Oh. Ooops.
|>I think they should, because it's harder to concentrate when you're in pain.
|
|Check out SR2 p112 at the top right-hand side.
|
|I'd think they wouldn't, since resisting damage really isn't a conscious
|act, it just happens.

Resisting *damage* isn't a concious effort, but the whole idea of resisting
*drain* is that it is.
Anyway, the argument's irrelevant if the answer is already in print.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell | "ARSE! GERLS!! DRINK! DRINK! DRINK!!!" |
|Principal subjects in:-| "THAT WOULD BE AN ECCLESIASTICAL MATTER!...FECK!!!!|
|Comp Sci & something | - Father Jack in "Father Ted"
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/FA>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 07:16:51 -0600 (MDT)
Spike wrote:
|
|Anyway, the argument's irrelevant if the answer is already in print.

I disagree. Just because the game designers put it down on paper
doesn't mean that it's the best solution possible. I feel that the goal
of this list is to improve on the game if possible - by discussing
confusing rules, adding new rules to fill gaps, and improving on
existing rules (in addition to discussing ShadowRun style and
environment, and character/adventure/campaign/world ideas).

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 6
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:00:07 +0200
On 18.06.96, David Buehrer wrote about "Re: [SR2] Drain mods":
> Spike wrote:
> |
> |Anyway, the argument's irrelevant if the answer is already in print.
>
> I disagree. Just because the game designers put it down on paper
> doesn't mean that it's the best solution possible. I feel that the goal
> of this list is to improve on the game if possible - by discussing
> confusing rules, adding new rules to fill gaps, and improving on
> existing rules (in addition to discussing ShadowRun style and
> environment, and character/adventure/campaign/world ideas).

Someone on this list said a long time ago (I had just joined (for the first
time :-)) something like: "If you use Damage Modifiers on Damage Resistence
Tests (*), you have two kinds of Runners: a) Unwounded and b) dead ones."
(*) = and a Drain Resistance Test IS a kind of DRT IMHO

I thought about this, and it stuck somewhere in my mind as right and worth
remembering. I forgot who wrote that (bad memory for names :-( ), but it
keeps being right IMasusuallyHO.

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 7
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 12:02:14 -0600 (MDT)
Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
|On 18.06.96, David Buehrer wrote about "Re: [SR2] Drain mods":
|> Spike wrote:
|> |
|> |Anyway, the argument's irrelevant if the answer is already in print.
|>
|> I disagree. Just because the game designers put it down on paper
|> doesn't mean that it's the best solution possible. I feel that the goal
|> of this list is to improve on the game if possible - by discussing
|> confusing rules, adding new rules to fill gaps, and improving on
|> existing rules (in addition to discussing ShadowRun style and
|> environment, and character/adventure/campaign/world ideas).
|
|Someone on this list said a long time ago (I had just joined (for the first
|time :-)) something like: "If you use Damage Modifiers on Damage Resistence
|Tests (*), you have two kinds of Runners: a) Unwounded and b) dead ones."
|(*) = and a Drain Resistance Test IS a kind of DRT IMHO
|
|I thought about this, and it stuck somewhere in my mind as right and worth
|remembering. I forgot who wrote that (bad memory for names :-( ), but it
|keeps being right IMasusuallyHO.

Sounds good to me.

I didn't answer Spike's post to debate DRTs, just to ask that
discussion be allowed on the validity of rules. Like the ambidexterity
rule, it's pretty clearly written, and yet quite a few people think it
sucks. That one just cried for debate. And then there's the grenade
scatter diagram. Nothing wrong with it at all. And yet when Gurth
posted a better diagram I switched to that one immediately. Even if a
rule is written by God, I still want to have the option of debating
it.

Farfromknowin,
-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 8
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:17:54 +0200
On 18.06.96, David Buehrer wrote about "Re: [SR2] Drain mods":
[my own argumentation snipped- ouch, that hurts :-) ]

> Sounds good to me.

> I didn't answer Spike's post to debate DRTs, just to ask that
> discussion be allowed on the validity of rules. Like the ambidexterity
> rule, it's pretty clearly written, and yet quite a few people think it
> sucks. That one just cried for debate. And then there's the grenade
> scatter diagram. Nothing wrong with it at all. And yet when Gurth
> posted a better diagram I switched to that one immediately. Even if a
> rule is written by God, I still want to have the option of debating
> it.
You might have noticed I switched from pure rule-posting to debate/
discussion from first to 2nd message to this topic (if not... hm :-)
This was for the same reasons... I like discussions (no... not about
grounding! :-) and wanted to elaborate WHY I stuck to the rule. Hope it
helped.

Sascha

--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Drain mods
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 06:40:34 -0600 (MDT)
Sascha Pabst wrote:
|
|On 18.06.96, David Buehrer wrote about "Re: [SR2] Drain mods":
|[my own argumentation snipped- ouch, that hurts :-) ]

Whoops. I thought I left that in. Sorry.

|> I didn't answer Spike's post to debate DRTs, just to ask that
|> discussion be allowed on the validity of rules. Like the ambidexterity
|> rule, it's pretty clearly written, and yet quite a few people think it
|> sucks. That one just cried for debate. And then there's the grenade
|> scatter diagram. Nothing wrong with it at all. And yet when Gurth
|> posted a better diagram I switched to that one immediately. Even if a
|> rule is written by God, I still want to have the option of debating
|> it.
|
|You might have noticed I switched from pure rule-posting to debate/
|discussion from first to 2nd message to this topic (if not... hm :-)
|This was for the same reasons... I like discussions (no... not about
|grounding! :-) and wanted to elaborate WHY I stuck to the rule. Hope it
|helped.

Just a little misunderstanding. And yes, your view on the rule helped. I
now believe, as you do, that modifiers for pain should not be applied to
drain or damage resistance tests. (At least I think that's what you
believe. I can't know for sure because I accidently snipped your original
post :( )

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~

Further Reading

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Thwap!