Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:23:54 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 1 At 06:50 AM 8/13/96 -0600, David wrote:
>Sebastien Andrivet wrote:
>|Thomas Holmes wrote :

>|>Gangers (In my world anyway) often have cheap cyberware, including maybe
>|>Boosted I. Rifles and shotguns (who cares if their not automatic) and lots
>|>of pistols.
>|
>|Of course, you realize that boosted I and other "cheap cyberware" makes
>|gangers better equipped than 80% of the corp security forces, 90% of the
>|cops and about 75% of the military.
>|
>|Also, your definition of "cheap" is a bit strange. Boosted reflexes are
>|55K. Since one nuyen = one dollar, that's $55K. Add surgery costs, and
>|we're talking $60K. Would you consider that a paltry sum ? If all gangers
>|have about $70K in cyberware and offensive gear, it's high time for a full
>|military dictatorship !
>|
>|Please keep in mind than most peoples in Shadowrun have a low lifestyle.
>|That means than most peoples will only earn 1000Y a month. If you had a sum
>|that allowed you to live for 70 months (almost 6 years) without working,
>|would you really invest it in bang-bang cyberware ?
>
>There is a way that gangers could get ware without paying for it. Offer to
>"protect" the local ripper-doc. Or, the local ripper-doc might offer to
>boost the local gang as a means of cheap and loyal security.

Let's not forget he said "cheap cyberwear". I don't know the exact cost
reduction (1/2?), but according to the Street Sam book, you can get "cheap"
cyberwear for a reduced price, with a risk of it failing at a critical moment.

On occasion, I have gangers with cheap wired reflexes, as evidenced by their
uncontrolled facial twitching.

How about another possibility: they got it from a chop shop or ripped it out
of some over-confident Street Sam they geeked?

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484

From:	rogue@*****.fr (Sebastien Andrivet)
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 13 Aug 1996 17:17:26 GMT

Message no. 2 Ubiquitous wrote :
>Let's not forget he said "cheap cyberwear". I don't know the exact cost
>reduction (1/2?), but according to the Street Sam book, you can get "cheap"
>cyberwear for a reduced price, with a risk of it failing at a critical moment.
>On occasion, I have gangers with cheap wired reflexes, as evidenced by their
>uncontrolled facial twitching.

OK, rant time.

I agree with Ubiquitous, and other persons on the list, there could be
lots of special cases, and that gangers could possibly be stupid, desperate
or ignorant enough to get cheap cyberware. But even divided by two, the
price is still awesome (the 55K figure comes from Cybertechnology, which
is, AFAIK, the mos current source). And a street doc would be a little
insane to blow so much money on the neighborhood kids.

However, the problem is more with what I'd call background threat level.

If, in your campaign, 'gangers are wired down to the last TG, that means
the cops and security services will be even better equiped, otherwise
credibility goes right down the toilet. And the Army and paramilitary elite
units, such as SWAT and security FRTs, will be monsters, with each man
loaded with a mil in cyberware. Shadowrunners, who confront this guys
regularly (except perhaps for the military), will want to be even tougher.
Can you say arms race ? In short, you've just defined a background threat
level which :
- requires munchkinism
- will turn the UCAS in a war zone
- will generates a civil war

The scenarios will become incredibly mean, the opposition will be
incredibly tough, and the PC's power will stretch suspension of disbelief
in a way that would make Mister Fantastic jealous. Oh, I suppose you could
play in such a high-threat environnement : munckinism is fun. But very few
players are smart, skilled and experience enough to play such top guns in a
remotedly believable fashion. In short, it's an excellent way of being
utterly ridiculous.

OTOH, if you reason that :
- cyberware is very expensive, socially suspect, and generates
psychological problems (via Essence loss. Having your soul eaten by metal
is *no* fun).
- only one person in a hundred is a true magic user, and they generally
get productive jobs in a corp or a meaningful role in a tribe.

You get a lower threat background. This allows for more believable
characters (they don't have to be munchikinized to survive), and more
enjoyable role-playing. Unless, of course, you're into roll-playing, which
is perfectly fine by me.

If everybody got huge combat capabilities, they'll use them. If they don't,
they'll use their brains, which is far more rewarding.

End rant. Comments ?

Sebastien Andrivet
rogue@*****.fr
France / Europe
"I'm not gonna try to hit him. I'm gonna try to hit myself. Since my skill
with a staff is so low, I have a good chance of achieving critical failure
and hitting the wrong target, and there's only me and him around. So I
attack him by trying to hit myself".
- Fred

From:	GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 13 Aug 1996 13:12:51 -0700

Message no. 3 Ubiquitous wrote:

> How about another possibility: they got it from a chop shop or ripped it out
> of some over-confident Street Sam they geeked?
We used to make a lot of nuyen by selling the bodies of our slain foes
[alright our comrades too] to a particular chop shop..If the bodies had
undamaged cyber then we got a better price..So we were gouls..What can I
say... ;)
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer

From:	The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Thu, 15 Aug 1996 08:06:31 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 4 > Let's not forget he said "cheap cyberwear". I don't know the exact cost
> reduction (1/2?), but according to the Street Sam book, you can get "cheap"
> cyberwear for a reduced price, with a risk of it failing at a critical moment.

Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
"There are worse things than death...
and I can do all of them." - The Plague
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------

From:	"Paolo Marcucci" <paolo@*********.it>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:52:52 +0200

Message no. 5 At 08.06 15/08/96 +1000, you wrote:
>Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
>it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
>cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)

Ok, someone should use that ware we pulled out from dead enemies and sold
for some nuYen to our streetdoc :)
____________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci paolo@*********.it
InterWare Service Provider Trieste, Italy
http://www.interware.it/ Tel. +39-40-411400
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GIT d-(+)>-$ s: a C++$> UH+@>++ P+++$ L+ !E--- W+++$ N++ o? K-
w++$>++++ !O- M$ V- PS+ PE+>++ Y+ PGP>+++ t 5- X+++>$ R+>+++$
tv+>++$ b++>+++ DI++ D+ G+ e>+++ h-- r++ y+(+++)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:38:59 +0100

Message no. 6 Sebastien Andrivet said on 17:17/13 Aug 96...

> I agree with Ubiquitous, and other persons on the list, there could be
> lots of special cases, and that gangers could possibly be stupid, desperate
> or ignorant enough to get cheap cyberware. But even divided by two, the
> price is still awesome (the 55K figure comes from Cybertechnology, which
> is, AFAIK, the mos current source). And a street doc would be a little
> insane to blow so much money on the neighborhood kids.

Cybertech says boosted refs level 1 are 15,000 nuyen, with a Street Index
of 1, which is the same as in the SSC . Buy it cheap and you pay 7,500
nuyen, plus major invasive surgery (.5 Essence cost), makes 32,500 nuyen.

> - cyberware is very expensive, socially suspect, and generates
> psychological problems (via Essence loss. Having your soul eaten by metal
> is *no* fun).

No no NO NO *NO* Not this AGAIN! Since your name doesn't look familiar to
me, I'll assume you're new on the list and I won't make a fuss about this,
but this topic has been done to death at least a 328 times before and it
still went nowhere. As Rat undoubtedly will point out as well, there has
been *no* valid argument for why cyberpsychosis should exist in modern
science, and people with current-day equivalents of cyberware (artificial
limbs, etc.) feel better than they did before they got the "cyberware."

The only reason cyberpsychosis can be explained with is by saying that the
person was already mentally instable (read: insane) before implantation,
why else would he/she get all those replacement parts in the first place?

Cyberpsychosis has been invented by Talsorian because of a game balance
flaw that was discovered shortly before CP2020 first went to the
printer's.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wait a minute, Beavis, I think it's trying to tell us something.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I get a little bit nervous
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	"Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:39:00 +0100

Message no. 7 The Jestyr said on 8:06/15 Aug 96...

> Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
> it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
> cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)

You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
this the very first session...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I get a little bit nervous
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	"Andre' Selmer" <031ANDRE@******.wits.ac.za>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 13:57:05 GMT + 2:00

Message no. 8 @ > Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
@ > it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
@ > cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)
@
@ You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
@ to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
@ this the very first session...

We considered this once. The relevant NPC was packed to the brim
with cyberware, his demise was a combination of a high speed vehicle
and fireball. We all stood there over the body debating who was going
to put the body in the trunk of the car, after the GM decribed the
burned and charred body. In the end we all decided it was a bad idea.
;)

Andre'

-- We exist because you want us to, because you are
|__|__ afraid to face the facts. We are what you fear
/\ /\ \ in the deep recesses of your soul, yourselves.
|\ /\ /| | It is there in the shadows of your soul and those
|/ \/ \| | of the street that we exist. Through the use of
\/__\/ might, magic, cunning, blood, sweat and tears we
protect you from your fears, from youselves, from
others and keep your utopia, not ours, intact.

From:	"Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 22:32:27 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 9 Andre' Selmer writes:

> We considered this once. The relevant NPC was packed to the brim
> with cyberware, his demise was a combination of a high speed vehicle
> and fireball. We all stood there over the body debating who was going
> to put the body in the trunk of the car, after the GM decribed the
> burned and charred body. In the end we all decided it was a bad idea.

Hey, my character, Tormentor (the "dwarven information extraction expert")
was running short of cred the other day (could be something to do with the
dwarf sized industrial strength paper shredder he purchased, or the 15
cybered ferrets), and so he and another team member (who should have known
better) went body snatching to cut people up and sell their parts to the
local street doc. The GM was mildly amused (hey, with a charcter like mine
you get used to some pretty horrid stuff). However, one of the people we
cut up turns out to be the cousin of the person we are bodyguarding in our
current job, and who the client is actively searching for... <it would be an
evil GM grin, 'cept I'm the player this time>

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GE d- s++:-- a20 C++ US++>+++ P+ L E@ W(+)>++ N- o@ K- w(--) O@ M- !V PS+
PE Y+ PGP->++ t+ 5 X++>+++ R+(++) tv--- b++(+++) DI- D G+ e>++ h(*) !r y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:15:04 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 10 > The Jestyr said on 8:06/15 Aug 96...
>
> > Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
> > it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
> > cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)
>
> You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
> to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
> this the very first session...

Well, we tossed the idea around when we killed wired-up people, but then
we realised that if we did, word would get out, and other runners would
go out of their way to do bad things to us cause we didn't respect
professional courtesy...

All apart from our darling Hamish, who used to run a cyberware scanner
over fresh corpses to see if they had Wired-3...

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
"There are worse things than death...
and I can do all of them." - The Plague
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------

From:	Rick Jones <rick@******.COM>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 17:22:31 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 11 The Jestyr wrote:
> Well, we tossed the idea around when we killed wired-up people, but then
> we realised that if we did, word would get out, and other runners would
> go out of their way to do bad things to us cause we didn't respect
> professional courtesy...

Why is that? It's either the runners or the organleggers, who are just
as happy to carve you up for bits. Now, the Thanksgiving Turkey's
friends and relatives may be excessively pissed that someone not only
carved up Johnny, but sold his bits to the highest bidder.

> All apart from our darling Hamish, who used to run a cyberware scanner
> over fresh corpses to see if they had Wired-3...

We have a street doc / ambulance driver in the party who regularly carves
up folks for bits. I guestimate 1d6 x 100 Nuyen per haul, modified for
how shot up they are.

--
Rick Jones Do you know people who think God must have built Epcot
rick@******.com Himself, because no mortal being could possibly put
Meyrick@***.com that much fun in one place?
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Joe-Bob Briggs [apparently about me]

From:	Max Rible <cheshire@*****.com>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Tue, 20 Aug 1996 15:25:39 -0800

Message no. 12 At 08:15 8/21/96 +1000, The Jestyr wrote:
>> You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
>> to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
>> this the very first session...

>Well, we tossed the idea around when we killed wired-up people, but then
>we realised that if we did, word would get out, and other runners would
>go out of their way to do bad things to us cause we didn't respect
>professional courtesy...

I didn't think professional courtesy was that good. I expect that one of
the dangers of being too obviously cybered is having gangs take you down
because your body is worth so much nuyen, and that "professional courtesy"
is mostly "you're well connected and/or tough enough that hunting you for
your cyberware wouldn't be worth it in the end". People are still going
to have different attitudes to a "waste not, want not" vs. a "forget
geeking
the mage, stun the chrome god!", of course.

I think having a certain amount of this undercurrent helps maintain the
cyberpunk genre: you *can* put a monetary value on a given human life.

>All apart from our darling Hamish, who used to run a cyberware scanner
>over fresh corpses to see if they had Wired-3...

Hey, just remember that with secondhand cyberware, you have to first pay
the Street Doc to extract it, then it needs to be fenced... pretty soon the
amount of nuyen is getting cut way down...
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%

From:	The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 1996 08:44:17 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 13 > I didn't think professional courtesy was that good. I expect that one of
> the dangers of being too obviously cybered is having gangs take you down
> because your body is worth so much nuyen, and that "professional courtesy"
> is mostly "you're well connected and/or tough enough that hunting you for
> your cyberware wouldn't be worth it in the end". People are still going
> to have different attitudes to a "waste not, want not" vs. a "forget
geeking
> the mage, stun the chrome god!", of course.

True, but it was going to be very hard to hire NPC runners, for example,
if they thought we'd cuttemup if they fell unconscious. :) As far as our
GM was concerned, doing that kinda thing was not appreciated by the other
runners, fixers etc. Since that was the GMs outlook and we weren't likely
to change his mind anytime soon, we took the hint and stuck to knocking
over Stuffer Shaks when we needed spare cash. :)

> >All apart from our darling Hamish, who used to run a cyberware scanner
> >over fresh corpses to see if they had Wired-3...
>
> Hey, just remember that with secondhand cyberware, you have to first pay
> the Street Doc to extract it, then it needs to be fenced... pretty soon the
> amount of nuyen is getting cut way down...

Ah, no, he wanted it for himself. :) (Couldn't afford the good stuff...)

Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
"There are worse things than death...
and I can do all of them." - The Plague
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------

From:	Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:21:49 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 14 On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

>
> > The Jestyr said on 8:06/15 Aug 96...
> >
> > > Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
> > > it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
> > > cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)
> >
> > You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
> > to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
> > this the very first session...
>
> Well, we tossed the idea around when we killed wired-up people, but then

I've only seen it done once in my game, That was when we took down a
Six-million nuyen StreetSam with a one Head shot. That fixed our short
term money problems.

===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.

From:	Joker <s1057948@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:27:24 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 15 On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Rick Jones wrote:

> Why is that? It's either the runners or the organleggers, who are just
> as happy to carve you up for bits. Now, the Thanksgiving Turkey's
> friends and relatives may be excessively pissed that someone not only
> carved up Johnny, but sold his bits to the highest bidder.
>
> Rick Jones

Rotflol....

===================================================================
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go,
because, man, they're gone.
===================================================================
The Joker,
Craig Chatfield. Email : s1057948@*****.student.gu.au

===================================================================
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate.
And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never
expect it.

From:	GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:37:41 -0700

Message no. 16 Gurth wrote:
> > .....and generates
> > psychological problems (via Essence loss. Having your soul eaten by metal
> > is *no* fun).
>
> No no NO NO *NO* Not this AGAIN! Since your name doesn't look familiar to
> me, I'll assume you're new on the list and I won't make a fuss about this,
> but this topic has been done to death at least a 328 times before and it
> still went nowhere. As Rat undoubtedly will point out as well, there has
> been *no* valid argument for why cyberpsychosis should exist in modern
> science, and people with current-day equivalents of cyberware (artificial
> limbs, etc.) feel better than they did before they got the "cyberware."
> Oh Since you bring it up Gurth..Evil Grin..I feel I should comment on
this one..I remember back
when this had only been brought up 30 or 40 times..And back then I would
have to say that you are
correct..Of course I wouldn't say so back then..At least not until about
20K messages had been sent
on the subject..Now however, I would have to say that CyberTechnology
presents a different case..at
least on when refering to the CyberZombie..This sounds a whole lot like
CyberPsychosis to me...
-
> The only reason cyberpsychosis can be explained with is by saying that the
> person was already mentally instable (read: insane) before implantation,
> why else would he/she get all those replacement parts in the first place?
>A person doesn't have to be unstable to experience a major replacement of
their meat with
metal..Afterall, how was that shadowrunner supposed to know that guard
would actually throw a
live grenade at them and drop it right in their lap...
-
> Cyberpsychosis has been invented by Talsorian because of a game balance
> flaw that was discovered shortly before CP2020 first went to the
> printer's.
>I would have to dissagree..A mild form of it has been discribed as a
ghost limb..where the person
missing a limb [or whatever] feels pain or itching or some other
sensation in the now missing
part...This has been well documented in people who have had artificial
replacements as well as those
who elect or are unable to purchase or acquire a replacement....
MMUUhhhhaahhaahhaaahhaahha.....
Err..Sorry..cough..That just sort of slipped out...;)

--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer

From:	readle.cr@**.com
Subject:	Re[2]: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	22 Aug 96 09:19:00 -0400

Message no. 17 [snip]

on the subject..Now however, I would have to say that CyberTechnology
presents a different case..at
least on when refering to the CyberZombie..This sounds a whole lot like
CyberPsychosis to me...
[snip]

It does sound a bit like cyberphychosis to me as well....however, I
think that the angle that they're going for with the cybermancy thing
is that the person's soul is being held in it's body after it would
normally have departed. This seems to me to be something similar
keeping a person on life support with a little added magical support
to keep the person aware of what's going on and able to react to it As
opposed to just lying there on a bed drooling :).

chris
<Zero length text item>

From:	GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject:	Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:51:40 -0700

Message no. 18 > It does sound a bit like cyberphychosis to me as well.....This seems to me to be
something similar
> keeping a person on life support with a little added magical support
> to keep the person aware of what's going on and able to react to it As
-
Basically it is a matter of definitions...
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer

From:	readle.cr@**.com
Subject:	Re[4]: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	22 Aug 96 11:29:00 -0400

Message no. 19 > It does sound a bit like cyberphychosis to me as well.....This seems to
me to be something similar
> keeping a person on life support with a little added magical support
> to keep the person aware of what's going on and able to react to it As
-
Basically it is a matter of definitions...

Well not really. A psychosis is an electrochemical imbalance in the
brain that can be brought about by any number of causes. OTH, what is
happening to a "client" of cybermancy has a more "spiritual"
explanation.

chris
<Zero length text item>

From:	bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject:	Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:22:07 -0500 (EST)

Message no. 20 >CyberTechnology presents a different case..at least on when refering to the
>CyberZombie..This sounds a whole lot like
>CyberPsychosis to me...

> It does sound a bit like cyberphychosis to me as well....however, I
> think that the angle that they're going for with the cybermancy thing
> is that the person's soul is being held in it's body after it would
> normally have departed. This seems to me to be something similar
> keeping a person on life support with a little added magical support
> to keep the person aware of what's going on and able to react to it As
> opposed to just lying there on a bed drooling :).

Has anyone given any thought to the connection between SR's cyberware, and
ED's blood magic charms?
That targeting eye in Earthdawn always makes me thing of a combo
cybereye/smartlink.
Mix in a little blood magic, and ED's wounds that don't heal, and there are
some very interesting similarities.

The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.

From:	dhinkley@***.org
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Thu, 22 Aug 1996 14:37:36 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 21 >@ > Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't
>know if
>@ > it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated
>that such
>@ > cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)
>@
>@ You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a
>street doc
>@ to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of
>times did
>@ this the very first session...

> We considered this once. The relevant NPC was packed to the brim
>with cyberware, his demise was a combination of a high speed vehicle
>and fireball. We all stood there over the body debating who was going
>to put the body in the trunk of the car, after the GM decribed the
>burned and charred body. In the end we all decided it was a bad idea.
>;)

I was in a group that had a "Doctor" who wanted to remove all the
cyberware from any prisoners that were taken as well as salvagable
bodies. It ceated a bit of friction as several of the highly cybered
Sams were more then a bit worried that the "Doctor" was about to
create a "goes around, comes around problem" for the team (that is we
lose our cyberware when we are captured). The "Doctor" (who was
without any cyber or bio-ware of her own) did not understand this
argument at all. Just to make it more interesting the GM was married
(in real life) to the "Doctor". I as well as the other Sam stopped
playing Shadowrun with them. We did manage to remain friends.

This idea of taking cyberware as boody sones good at first. It is the
side effects that make it a bad idea.

David Hinkley
dhinkley@***.org

From:	Jamie Houston <s430472@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject:	Re: [SR2] Gangers and Ware
Date:	Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:34:16 +1000 (EST)

Message no. 22 On Wed, 21 Aug 1996, The Jestyr wrote:

>
> > The Jestyr said on 8:06/15 Aug 96...
> >
> > > Yep. It's in the SSC, you pay 50% normal price for it. I don't know if
> > > it's gospel, but I recall that it was either implied or stated that such
> > > cyber was second hand. (Euuuugggh...)
> >
> > You mean you've never seen players carry killed opponents to a street doc
> > to sell them for parts? Some **&*-ers I GMed SR for a couple of times did
> > this the very first session...
>
> Well, we tossed the idea around when we killed wired-up people, but then
> we realised that if we did, word would get out, and other runners would
> go out of their way to do bad things to us cause we didn't respect
> professional courtesy...
>
> All apart from our darling Hamish, who used to run a cyberware scanner
> over fresh corpses to see if they had Wired-3...
>
I don't know what you're talking about!

Anyway...it was a helluva lot cheaper than buying it normally...8-]

Hamish

______________________________________________________________________
Jamie Houston * "If a kid asks why it's raining,
aka Bollox, Hamish,(and * a cute thing to tell him is "God is
lots of other unmentionable * crying"...And if he asks why God is
pseudonyms) * crying, another cute thing to tell
s430472@*****.student.gu.edu.au * him is "It's probably something
Griffith Uni * you did!"
______________________________________________________________________

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer