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Message no. 1
From: laughingman <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:32:11 +0200
Well, hello once again.

Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
Question now is:

Is that possible?

I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that horrible

act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.
And what says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents
that?
Thanx in Advance.

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to archive.
Message no. 2
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:43:10 +1000
laughingman writes:
> Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
> Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
> Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
> elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
> the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
> that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
> Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
> Question now is:
>
> Is that possible?

Yep, it's possible (I seem to remember that you can't whistle up your
elemental while astral, but he could have done it first, then gone astral).

Is it ethical? Well, it depends on how the mage views spirits. If he views
them as sentient beings, it's definitely a seriously sick move. Even if he
views them as living, it's cruel, as disruption definitely hurts a spirit.
If he views them as merely animated astral energy, then they are constructs
and can be destroyed if he wants.

OTH, how do spirits view spirits? The general consensus here is that if a
mage does this stuff as a rule, he'll get a bad rep in the astral planes.
One house rule for handling this is to make conjuring harder (increase the
force for drain and TN by +2). Also, consider free spirits. They might get
annoyed at seeing someone toasting one of their "cousins" so cavalierly.
Finally, have one of his spirits go free if he gets injured. He'll now have
a seriously pissed-off spirit who'll want to kick his butt.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 3
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:55:35 -0500
----------
> From: laughingman <laughingman@*******.DE>
>
> Is that possible?

Yes, but he's basically screwed himself with regards to summoning more
elementals. I would suggest that for every force point of elemental he
wastes, add +1 to his TN to summon more elementals for a year and a day
(nice, mystical sounding time period). While its technically possible (as
of SR2), it pisses them off.

> And what says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents
> that?

3rd edition removes grounding completely... you can't even do it through
quickenings anymore! ::runs and hides beneath Gurth's stairs::

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and hands,
and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how to expand
the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a
motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 4
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR2]Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:47:37 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:32 AM 9/9/98 +0200, Steadfast wrote:
<<Snip grounding a fireball through your own Earth Elemental>>
>Is that possible?
>
>I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that
horrible
>act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.

Have the next Earth Elemental that he summons refuse to work for him.
(off the top of their head, anyone have the page reference for Spirits
not obeying the Summoner if there's a history of spirit
mistreatment???)

"My name is Indigo Ballofmud. You fireballed my father. Prepare to
die!"

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 5
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:02:16 -0400
Steadfast--

>I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies
>that horrible act of Elemental/Spirit destruction. And what =

>says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents
>that?
>Thanx in Advance.

In SR3 it is no longer possible to ground out area
effect spells through manifest spirits, foci, or paranatural
animals. If the mage were to try that trick in SR3, the only
thing he'd do would be to kill off his own elemental. =

With a force of 1, that Earth Elemental probably owes
that mage a lot of services. If the mage is foolish enough to try
to call on it again, make him pay. Elementals are living beings.
They may not have the same needs as people, but they sure remember
being mistreated. The elemental *knows* that his summoner cast the
spell that disrupted him, because the elemental has intimate and
personal experience of the mage's spellcasting signature. Don't
just have the elemental attack, though. It'll get toasted again.

Rather, have it sabotage the magician's plans. The next time the
elemental gets an order like "Stand there for an hour," you can
darn well bet that the elemental will remember what happened the
last time. It'll stand there, all right. It'll even manifest. And,
since manifest beings can be heard, it'll start talking. "Hey, you
know, there's this mage. He's the guy who summoned me, and his
name is _____. I don't know where he lives, but here's a good
description of him. He's going to ground out an area effect spell
on me, so that he can take you guys out from the astral plane with
out risking his precious meat body. I tell ya, if he weren't the
guy who summoned me, I'd go over three blocks that way and then
five blocks south, and whoop his ass hard. Imagine, him thinking
that a brown Ford Americar is a good place to run from. Then there
are his buddies. They're letting him do this because they want to
get into this building. Whatta bunch of losers."

Then, have the guards *act* normally, but alert everyone
inside the facility. Maybe they've got an offsite security team
that they can call up, or maybe they've got an onsite security
team that they can dispatch. Or, maybe, just maybe, they'll try
to capture the runners using Narcoject pistols and other non-
lethal options. After all, a runner team that has been captured
can be convinced to tell them who their employer was, what he was
after, etc. Then the runners can do a 'run for their captors in
exchange for their freedom. Be sure to let the mage know why the
team was captured.

That should take care of that.

Shadowmage
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:51:17 +1000
Tarek writes:
[Nice story of how an elemental can get his revenge snipped]

Um, Tarek... A Force 1 Elemental has an Intelligence of 1. It wouldn't be
able to come up with such a complex idea by itself.

(Of course, it could always recite something it learned by rote...)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 7
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:53:25 -0400
Robert--

>A Force 1 Elemental has an Intelligence of 1. It wouldn't be
>able to come up with such a complex idea by itself.
>(Of course, it could always recite something it learned by rote)

Okay, so it wouldn't be that devious. Maybe it'll just
say, "Hey, youze. I woodn' stan' dere I waz you. Master's gonna
fireball me again an' I hate it when dat happens, an' den his
chums is gonna break inna here."
The guards, alerted, prepare an ambush and capture the runners.
And gloat about how the mage's own elemental tipped them off
because it didn't like being sacrificed like that...

As I said, that should put an end to *that*.

Shadowmage
Message no. 8
From: "Jason I. Gonding" <templar@****.NET>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:58:54 -0400
laughingman wrote:

> Well, hello once again.
>
> Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
> idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
> Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
> elemental and bided it to get manifest and just stand there between
> the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
> that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
> Not to mention the whole elemental faction on the metaplanes.
> Question now is:
>
> Is that possible?

In SR2, yes. Kosher - No.

According to Steve Kenison (sp?) @ Gen-con, you can no longer ground spells
from Astral Space to the real world in SR3. This was apparently, an attempt to
head off the "can you ground thru a Quickened/Anchored Spell debate".

> I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that horrible
> act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.

Well...there's rules & then there's rules. As the GM, you have the perogative
to change the rules to keep people in line (or to save the story) - just don't
do it often. Once or twice, and it'll scare any halfway decent role-player
quite nicely; a couple dozen times & you'll have a revolt.I'd say that the
fragger deserves to have some ill effects to this tactic crop up in the near
future - say, poor relations with spirits (Aren't you the mage who toasted
Grabjgtiuvdhjk last week? You're a bastard!) or thwack him hard when he fails
a drain test for summoning (normally you'd just expect the elemental to just go
away when you screw up a summoning, but for some reason this one's got a
baseball bat).

> And what says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents that?

I hope so, but aside from the already mentioned "No Grounding clause" I don't
think so. The game relies (as most do to one extent or another) that people
play true to the nature of their character/class/archtype and those that don't
should suffer the consequences. (ie - a Paladin in AD&D who goes whoring every
night & is perpetually drunk is going to quickly lose the favor of his god -
unless it's Issik of the jug, in which case - drink up!)

> Thanx in Advance.

No problem.

On a related note, he also told me that Metamagical abilities are going to
change in MitS. Some are going to go away, some are going to change, and some
new ones are going to crop up.

Jason
**************************Sic Semper Tyranids!************************
Jason I. Gonding <templar@****.net>
White Dwarf / The Citadel Journal Index
<http://www.cs.odu.edu/~gonding/index.html>;
Home Page <http://www.cs.odu.edu/~gonding/home.html>;
*******************************************************************
Message no. 9
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:21:38 +1000
> laughingman wrote:
>
> > Well, hello once again.
> >
> > Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
> > idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
> > Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called
> his
> > elemental and bided it to get manifest and just stand there between
> > the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
> > that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems
> correct.
> > Not to mention the whole elemental faction on the metaplanes.
> > Question now is:
> >
> > Is that possible?
>
> In SR2, yes. Kosher - No.
>
<snip>

> Jason
>
Actually, I don't know if this has been mentioned (forgive me if it
has), but this entire issue was covered in a 'story' in Awakenings (by
Steve Kenson, surprise, surprise). The poster told of how this once
happened to him and a mage commented that unless this tactic was used to
deal with a truly evil person who more or less threatened the entire
world, then the mage who did it is going to have a hell of a time
dealing with elementals in future. As Jason said, having any elemental
who breaks free attacking the mage would be reasonable, as would, I
believe, increasing the difficulty and drain for summoning to represent
the reluctance of any elemental to come to the aid of a fragger like
this. Personally, I think this is a real bastard of a tactic. Unless
your mage is very new (which I doubt - I can't see a newbie coming up
with an idea like that) or said guards really needed doing in (i.e. they
were absolute scum of the earth, who deserved to be dead) and there was
no better way of doing it, I'd put those rules into effect immediately.
If he tries it again, it's quite likely that a big fragging free spirit
would come along and pound him into the ground to 'larn him'. If he is a
newbie, though, I think one warning about the consequences of such
actions would be sufficient. Well - that's how I'd handle it, anyway.

Oh, and if anyone ever, ever gets a shaman trying a trick like this, I
don't think it'd be at all unreasonable for said shaman to lose his or
her magic (or at least conjuring abilities) permanently and irrevocably.
Maybe with some major penance they could get them back, but I hardly
think their totem would encourage such behaviour. In fact, to quote a
favourite phrase from the SR:Comp, I think it'd be quite reasonable for
the shaman's totem to 'actively unemploy' the shaman.

Gee...guess I feel rather strongly about this one.

Doc'
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:40:41 +0200
According to laughingman, at 1:32 on 9 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
> Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
> Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
> elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
> the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
> that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
> Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
> Question now is:
>
> Is that possible?

Yes. Up until SR3 came out, you could ground spells through such astral-to-
physical "bridges," so your player's trick would be perfectly acceptable,
rules-wise anyway.

In SR3 they did away with grounding altogether, and also you can't cast
physical spells on the astral plane anymore, so the above trick is double-
impossible now.

> I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that horrible
> act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.

Well, if a shaman does this to a nature spirit, I could see the shaman's
totem getting very displeased... With mages, though, there's nothing to
stop them from doing this.

> And what says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents
> that?

See above.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:24:54 +0100
And verily, did laughingman hastily scribble thusly...
|the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
|that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
|Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
|Question now is:
|
|Is that possible?

It was in 1st and 2nd Ed. In fact, that's an old trick.
(The problem being of course, that the trick would cause ripples through the
elemental planes, making all elementals of the same type hate him even more
than they normally would. (IMNSHO).

|I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that horrible
|act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.
|And what says the 3rd ed. to that, is there now something that prevents
|that?

Simple. Grounding has been removed/deleted/eradicated/expunged/etc and no
longer exists.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 12
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: [SR2]Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:05:41 +0000
and thus did Paul Gettle speak on 8 Sep 98 at 22:47:

> Have the next Earth Elemental that he summons refuse to work for him.
> (off the top of their head, anyone have the page reference for Spirits
> not obeying the Summoner if there's a history of spirit
> mistreatment???)
>
> "My name is Indigo Ballofmud. You fireballed my father. Prepare to
> die!"

LOL!! Good thing I'm reading this at home, I didn't stop laughing for
quite some time.

Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 13
From: David Hedderwick <axhand@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:40:24 PDT
Hiya

>Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
>Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
>Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
>elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
>the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
>that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems
>correct. Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the >metaplanes.
>Question now is:
>
>Is that possible?

Yes. It is very possible. Technicaly, the elemental is in both Astral
space and 'real' space at the same time. I don't have SR3, but I do have
Awakenings. Awakenings actualy mentions this. It also says something
about how thiks isn't very nice, and that future summongings may have a
slight problem. It doesn't exactly say (At least I can't remeber :) ).

I hope that helps.

Cheers Jebb

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 14
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:37:41 -0700
:And verily, did laughingman hastily scribble thusly...
:|the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
:|that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems
correct.
:|Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
:|Question now is:
:|
:|Is that possible?
:
:It was in 1st and 2nd Ed. In fact, that's an old trick.
:(The problem being of course, that the trick would cause ripples through
the
:elemental planes, making all elementals of the same type hate him even
more
:than they normally would. (IMNSHO).


Is it necessary to kill the elemental (I say elemental, cause any
shaman who did this should loose magic points as punishment from his
totem)? A high force spirit could easily be hit by a spell that did "l"
damage; it would stage up for the secondary targets, but not for him.
Is it even needed that the spirit be HURT? If the spell is completely
shrugged off by the spirit (maybe you give it defense...), does it still
ground and affect others? [I think we have played it won't, so that a
perceiving / projecting mage need only defend himself to stop grounding]

Mongoose
Message no. 15
From: Steve Eley <sfeley@***.NET>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:00:06 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> According to laughingman, at 1:32 on 9 Sep 98, the word on the street was...
>
> > I let him go for now, as I couldn't find anything that denies that horrible
> > act of Elemental/Spirit destruction.
>
> Well, if a shaman does this to a nature spirit, I could see the shaman's
> totem getting very displeased... With mages, though, there's nothing to
> stop them from doing this.

I notice the one angle no one's been mentioning so far is TOXIC mages and
shamans. The spirits they summon are twisted anyway, and may sacrifice
themselves in this way if it accomplishes enough destructions -- so what
was to stop *them* from doing it before SR3?

(Or was that the reason no one mentioned it?) >8->


Have Fun,
- Steve Eley
sfeley@***.net
Message no. 16
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:17:55 +0100
And verily, did Mongoose hastily scribble thusly...
| Is it necessary to kill the elemental (I say elemental, cause any
|shaman who did this should loose magic points as punishment from his
|totem)? A high force spirit could easily be hit by a spell that did "l"
|damage; it would stage up for the secondary targets, but not for him.

| Is it even needed that the spirit be HURT? If the spell is completely
|shrugged off by the spirit (maybe you give it defense...), does it still
|ground and affect others? [I think we have played it won't, so that a
|perceiving / projecting mage need only defend himself to stop grounding]

In order for the spell to ground into the physical plane, it must totally
overcome the force of the item it is grounding through, which inevitably
leads to the destruction of the bridge the spell is crossing.

The bond of a focus (and all the karma that went with it) is broken.
A spirit or elemental is destroyed.

There was no other way around it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 17
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:28:22 +0100
And verily, did Steve Eley hastily scribble thusly...
|I notice the one angle no one's been mentioning so far is TOXIC mages and
|shamans. The spirits they summon are twisted anyway, and may sacrifice
|themselves in this way if it accomplishes enough destructions -- so what
|was to stop *them* from doing it before SR3?
|
|(Or was that the reason no one mentioned it?) >8->

Nothing? But then, they *were* something that the book stated [along with
insect shamen] to be NPC only....

Also, don't forget there are two types of toxic shaman.
Avengers (starts humming the theme tune), and... errr... is it dispoilers?
Or Corruptors? Something like that anyway...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 18
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:58:51 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of laughingman
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 9:32 AM
>
>
> Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
> Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
> Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral,
> called his
> elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
> the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
> that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it
> seems correct.
> Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
> Question now is:
>
> Is that possible?

Under 2nd Ed, it is possible. But

THREATS Spoiler





























if you read threats, there is a free spirit called Tutor in it that,
ah, lets say, often takes exception to people using spirits in this
way.

NightRain.

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: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
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Message no. 19
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: (SR2)Grounding through Spirits/Elemental?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:57:16 -0700
>Some "nice" little fella in one group of mine came to a devastating
>Idea. In the time before the actual run he summoned one force 1
>Elemental (Earth). After the action started he got astral, called his
>elemental and bided it to get manifest jand ust stand there between
>the guards for one hour. After that he grounded a fireball through
>that poor elemental (force 8). I was quite shocked, but it seems correct.
>Not to mention the whole elementalfaction on the metaplanes.
>Question now is:
>
>Is that possible?

Old trick. Mentioned in Awakenings. Not doable in SR3.

He should also have earned the undying emnity of Earth Elementals, and
probably all spirits will be sullen and resentful of him. That sort of bad
karma travels fast.

Myself, I liked the grounding bit of SR2, but we'll have to wait until MiTS
to see how they've sorted astral space. For now, though, you can't do it.

>--->Steadfast
> to be "human" is not a state of living
> I want to archive.

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

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Thwap!