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Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Initiation ordeal question
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:33:58 -0400 (EDT)
At 08:02 PM 7/17/96 -0500, Bad Cheese wrote:

> Okay, I'll admit, this is rules-raping at its grossest, and if I'm reading
>the rules correctly, FASA simply _couldn't_ have meant it like this. For the
>Familiar ordeal for initiating, it says that the magician must summon an
>ally, and that the ally automatically has a karma cost equal to that of
>cost of the grade the magician is initiating to.
> This can't be right, can it? My shaman can't summon a 100+ karma point
>ally for no magic point cost, and a karma cost of 9 (the cost to go to grade
>0), can he?

No, the karma points you spend on the Ally must be at least equal to that
used to initiate, so in your case, 9.

--
"You cannot escape. Everyday a part of you turns to shit."
Message no. 2
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Initiation ordeal question
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:06 AM 7/19/96 -0500, Brian wrote:

>Karma cost of initiation w/ familiar ordeal.

>So, Is everyone saying that the spirit is 0 karma(free) (or nine karma
>points are free), or that you have to pay the full karma cost for ally?
>The way I read it, is that the only thing is free with a familiar ordeal
>is the first force point( since you don't loose the MA point), and the
>spirit is more friendly.

No, the spirit isn't free, but must cost at least the same as what you paid
for the initiation, meaning at least twice the cost to initiate.

--
"You cannot escape. Everyday a part of you turns to shit."
Message no. 3
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Initiation ordeal question
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 12:17:40 +0100
Ubiquitous said on 12:27/19 Jul 96...

> No, the spirit isn't free, but must cost at least the same as what you paid
> for the initiation, meaning at least twice the cost to initiate.

I ruled that the cost of the spirit is the cost of the initiation, so that
in fact you get twice as much result for your Karma: an initiation grade
_and_ an ally spirit. I've only ever seen one character summon an ally in
a game I was in, though.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I've often tried to hold the sea, the sun, the fields, the tide.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Initiation ordeal question
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 08:09:47 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:17 PM 7/20/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Ubiquitous said on 12:27/19 Jul 96...

>> No, the spirit isn't free, but must cost at least the same as what you paid
>> for the initiation, meaning at least twice the cost to initiate.
>
>I ruled that the cost of the spirit is the cost of the initiation, so that
>in fact you get twice as much result for your Karma: an initiation grade
>_and_ an ally spirit. I've only ever seen one character summon an ally in
>a game I was in, though.

Can't say I've ever had a player create an Ally, although a voudoun was
considering it as an initiation ordeal.

--
"You cannot escape. Everyday a part of you turns to shit."
Message no. 5
From: Brian Johnson <john0375@****.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Initiation ordeal question
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:18:26 -0500 (CDT)
> I ruled that the cost of the spirit is the cost of the initiation, so that
> in fact you get twice as much result for your Karma: an initiation grade
> _and_ an ally spirit. I've only ever seen one character summon an ally in
> a game I was in, though.

Well, this isn't the way the other initiation ordeals work.
Those tend to be more of a something for something, rather
than a something for nothing, like above.

Astral quests, for instance, can get you killed for initiation.
Asceticism loses you a point of physical stat,
and geasa sticks with you for life,
so this 'free' ally (meaning no karma) Is really different than the
others, neh?

It's funny, ray M didn't get rilled, but the rest of you sure did for him.

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