Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:48:37 -0400 (EDT)
At 09:15 AM 6/28/96 PDT, Brett wrote:

>Then change your karma guidelines. I am, actually, pretty liberal
>on what I let my players use karma on. The rub is - if it's not
>a straightforward combat/danger use of karma, using it burns it right
>out of your pool (it does *not* replenish). Rigger *really* needs
>a better roll to fix his car? - burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain't
>coming back. Want to have a bitchin' inviso spell in your spell lock? -
>burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain't coming back. And if they didn't
>get their "15 successes" with their first re-roll, it costs 2 karma
>to re-roll again - and *they* ain't coming back either. And so on...

I dunno, I think that's a bit too severe still. After all, the only time
you can permanantly burn karma is when buying successes.

In my campaign, I allow them to use karma normally, but they don't refresh
until AFTER the next combat situation.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 2
From: brett@***.orst.edu (Brett Barksdale)
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 11:11:41 PDT
>>Then change your karma guidelines. I am, actually, pretty liberal
>>on what I let my players use karma on. The rub is - if it's not
>>a straightforward combat/danger use of karma, using it burns it right
>>out of your pool (it does *not* replenish). Rigger *really* needs
>>a better roll to fix his car? - burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain't
>>coming back. Want to have a bitchin' inviso spell in your spell lock? -
>>burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain't coming back. And if they didn't
>>get their "15 successes" with their first re-roll, it costs 2 karma
>>to re-roll again - and *they* ain't coming back either. And so on...

>I dunno, I think that's a bit too severe still. After all, the only time
>you can permanantly burn karma is when buying successes.

So say the SRII rules. But as we've all noticed, the SRII rules are
horribly flawed or incomplete or ill-thought out in a lot of places.
According to their rules, you're getting these "15 success" spells locks.
Clearly, their karma usage rules, as written, are messed up.

>In my campaign, I allow them to use karma normally, but they don't refresh
>until AFTER the next combat situation.

My game is very similar. But so what? Clearly, your players aren't
threatened by this or aren't "suffering" some sort of detriment
because of this because, guess what?, they're still using karma
to get "15 success" spell locks.

If you want to fix your "15 success" problem, you need to tighten
up on your karma usage rules. If you don't want them burning it off,
fine. There are plenty of other solutions. But it's clear that you
need to be a bit "more severe" than you presently are. However you
do it, you need to make sure that the players are giving up a very
real and measurable benefit when they use karma to make "monster
locks". Otherwise, they're getting something for nothing or, at best,
something for way too cheap.

- Brett

"I'm not being mean. There just has to be a reason why *every* mage
in the world isn't walking around with 10+ success spell locks."
Message no. 3
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:32:29 -0600 (MDT)
Ubiquitous wrote:
|
|In my campaign, I allow them to use karma normally, but they don't refresh
|until AFTER the next combat situation.

Shaman spends all his karma summoning a Force 10 spirit. Combat occurs,
shaman doesn't have any karma..... <GM grins evily and chuckles> Thank
you very much for passing that on.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 4
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:11:00 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:11 AM 6/28/96 PDT, Brett wrote:

>My game is very similar. But so what? Clearly, your players aren't
>threatened by this or aren't "suffering" some sort of detriment
>because of this because, guess what?, they're still using karma
>to get "15 success" spell locks.

I think you're confusing me with someone else; I've never had any problems
with spell locks.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 5
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 18:14:24 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:11 AM 6/28/96 PDT, Brett wrote:

>My game is very similar. But so what? Clearly, your players aren't
>threatened by this or aren't "suffering" some sort of detriment
>because of this because, guess what?, they're still using karma
>to get "15 success" spell locks.

I think you're confusing me with someone else; I've never had any problems
with spell locks.

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer
Message no. 6
From: Mike Alex <mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:11:48 -0600 (MDT)
>
> >My game is very similar. But so what? Clearly, your players aren't
> >threatened by this or aren't "suffering" some sort of detriment
> >because of this because, guess what?, they're still using karma
> >to get "15 success" spell locks.
>

How about something along these lines? Mage uses K.P. in combat
to reroll dice when he gets splattered by a burst of autofire, K.P.
refreshes at end of scene. Mage uses K.P. to create 15 success spell
lock, K.P. doesn't refresh (here's the important part) until the spell
lock is de-bonded by the casting magician, if it gets trashed in the
astral, the K.P. point(s) is(are) gone.

Mike Alex, mra0118@******.sdsmt.edu
"Resistance is futile, (if < 1 ohm)."

P.S. Anyone know why the listserver keeps stripping my name?
Message no. 7
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 12:49:18 +0100
David Buehrer said on 12:32/28 Jun 96...

> Shaman spends all his karma summoning a Force 10 spirit. Combat occurs,
> shaman doesn't have any karma..... <GM grins evily and chuckles> Thank
> you very much for passing that on.

Combat occurs with the spirit? *grin of a GM who just got Threats
yesterday*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Still can't get it right.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 8
From: pbailey@***.ipswichcity.qld.gov.au (Peter Bailey)
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 96 13:58:19
Hi Ubiquitous,

> At 09:15 AM 6/28/96 PDT, Brett wrote:
>
> >Then change your karma guidelines. I am, actually, pretty liberal
> >on what I let my players use karma on. The rub is - if it's not
> >a straightforward combat/danger use of karma, using it burns it righ=
t
> >out of your pool (it does *not* replenish). Rigger *really* needs
> >a better roll to fix his car? - burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain'=
t
> >coming back. Want to have a bitchin' inviso spell in your spell lock=
? -
> >burn a karma to re-roll, but it ain't coming back. And if they didn'=
t
> >get their "15 successes" with their first re-roll, it costs 2 karma
> >to re-roll again - and *they* ain't coming back either. And so on...
>
> I dunno, I think that's a bit too severe still. After all, the only t=
ime
> you can permanantly burn karma is when buying successes.
>
> In my campaign, I allow them to use karma normally, but they don't re=
fresh
> until AFTER the next combat situation.

I just deleted the ability to re-roll failures with karma pool. After a=
ll
the NPC's have no answer to that. Combat/hack/astral/whatever pools yes=
,
because the NPC's have threat dice, but they have no answer to the karm=
a
pool.
When you remove the ability to re-roll fails the karma pool idea became
much more workable for us, and made things much more challenging for th=
e
characters.

--

Internet: pbailey@***.com.au Fidonet: 3:640/281.3

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GAT d s:+ a- C+>++++ U? P? L E? @* N+++ o? K? w--- O? M? V?
PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP++ t+ 5- X+ R+ tv b+++ DI? D++ G e h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
PGP fingerprint = 9C A2 D9 D8 CF 78 EC E7 3D 9F C7 C7 FD 11 85 4E
Member Team AMIGA
Message no. 9
From: dbuehrer@****.org (David Buehrer)
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 14:17:25 -0600 (MDT)
Peter Bailey wrote:
|
|I just deleted the ability to re-roll failures with karma pool. After
|all the NPC's have no answer to that. Combat/hack/astral/whatever
|pools yes, because the NPC's have threat dice, but they have no
|answer to the karma pool. When you remove the ability to re-roll
|fails the karma pool idea became much more workable for us, and made
|things much more challenging for the characters.

I brought up this idea with my players and they didn't want to do it. They
didn't mind putting aside every tenth point if they could use it for
re-rolls. But being forced to put aside those points with the only option
of burning them, well... they didn't like it.

I used to play 007 (great game). It had a hero point system. You could
spend hero points to save your butt. And you got hero points for doing
things exceptionally well (that applied to the mission/adventure). I've
been thinking of doing something similar for SR. Giving characters Karma
Pool points when they do the right thing or do something fantastic. And
then tell them that they can't use those points to re-roll. If the Pool
points don't come out of their "experience" points, I don't think I'll get
as many objections.

-David

/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like
underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.html~~~~~~
Message no. 10
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [Sr2] Karma spending
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:49 PM 6/29/96 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>David Buehrer said on 12:32/28 Jun 96...

>> Shaman spends all his karma summoning a Force 10 spirit. Combat occurs,
>> shaman doesn't have any karma..... <GM grins evily and chuckles> Thank
>> you very much for passing that on.
>
>Combat occurs with the spirit? *grin of a GM who just got Threats
>yesterday*

Nassssty GM! Nassssty GM!!
*cringing and scraping*

--
"I remember my first sexual encounter because I kept the recipe."
- Jeff Dahmer

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about [Sr2] Karma spending, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!