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Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 10:04:34 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:13 AM 8/21/96 GMT, Mark wrote:
>Ubiquitous writes

>> OK, would one determine the effect of an anchored spell at the time
>> it goes off with Force dice only, or is it "pre-rolled"?
>
>I would advise you to simply record the number of dice allocated to
>the spells success test at the time the spell is anchored (force plus
>allocated pool, foci etc). This means the player does not know how
>effective it will be and allows you to factor in effects of things
>such as background count on the target numbers.
>
>Note this latter affects spell locked/quickened detect enemies etc as
>well as it makes detection harder. It would not affect pre cast
>barriers, levitation etc though (one big headache avoided)
>
>> You can only use a DM for non-instantaneous ones, right?
>
>No you could anchor flame bombs quite happily, just make sure you are
>well away from ground zero when they go off :)

I said "non-instantaneous", like a flaming swords, etc.

Another question: If anchoring a Combat spell, wouldn't it have to be an
area of effect one to affect anything else besides the object it is
anchored to?



--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 2
From: "Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 00:24:53 +1000 (EST)
Ubiquitous writes:

> Another question: If anchoring a Combat spell, wouldn't it have to be an
> area of effect one to affect anything else besides the object it is
> anchored to?

This problem would also result for non-area of effect DMs too, since they
are only targetted at a single target.

In my view, the process of creating the Anchoring would include some
mechanism of controlling where the energies of the Anchored spell go to when
released. Otherwise your Anchored spells all affect the item that they are
Anchored to. Kinda useless for most spells (except area of effect spells
and things like barriers.)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au

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Message no. 3
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 12:16:48 -0400 (EDT)
At 03:07 PM 8/21/96 +0000, Sascha wrote:
>On 20 Aug 96 at 12:56, Ubiquitous wrote:

>> For the nth time:
>> But you can't anchor Combat spells!

>Grimoire p.50 "The one drawback to anchoring spells occurs principally in
>connection with damaging spells (either combat or manipulation) of Instant
>duration."
>
>Please repeat it for me: You can't WHAT?

Hol on. Don't you know it's rude to speak with one's mouth is full? ;-)

I still don't see how one could do it, however, since the anchored spell
only effects the object it is anchored to (unless it's an area of effect
spell, which is also foolish), so anchoring Death touch to a sword will do
nothing, since mana spells do not affect non-living things. Similarly, I
don't think anchoring Increase Strength +4 to a sword would help someone
holding it as it is currently listed.

As I understood it, you have to use a sustained DM spell (would Flame Aura
suffice?) to hurt someone else.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 4
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 21 Aug 96 12:24:00 -0400
Another question: If anchoring a Combat spell, wouldn't it have to be an
area of effect one to affect anything else besides the object it is
anchored to?

Not really, when an anchored spell goes off its considered to be cast
by/on the object to which it is anchored. Which is why when you
anchor a Death Touch spell onto a sword you want to anchor it to the
blade NOT the entire sword. ;) That way, the next thing to touch the
blade(hopefully the intended recipient) gets the effects of the Death
Touch.

chris

<Zero length text item>
Message no. 5
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 21 Aug 96 12:26:00 -0400
This problem would also result for non-area of effect DMs too, since they
are only targetted at a single target.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does DM stand for? Thanks.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 6
From: Dvixen Vidi Vici <dvixen@****.spydernet.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 11:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
(Ref to problems of anchoring/quickening instant duration spells)
(Rolling damage)

I'd suggest the GM make the roll in private. So the caster/designer in
question has no idea of how well he did, and for some fun further down
the line. (The idea of a very good or very poor spell...:)


And on 21 Aug 1996 readle.cr@**.com wrote:

> At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does DM stand for? Thanks.

Damaging Manipulation

> chris
> <Zero length text item>

--
AJ Schaafsma Dvixen@****.spydernet.com
Message no. 7
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 19:57:26 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:26 PM 8/21/96 -0400, someone wrote:

>This problem would also result for non-area of effect DMs too, since they
>are only targetted at a single target.
>
> At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does DM stand for? Thanks.

Damaging Manipulation.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 8
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:01:51 -0400 (EDT)
At 12:24 PM 8/21/96 -0400, someone wrote:

>>Another question: If anchoring a Combat spell, wouldn't it have to be an
>>area of effect one to affect anything else besides the object it is
>>anchored to?
>
> Not really, when an anchored spell goes off its considered to be cast
> by/on the object to which it is anchored. Which is why when you
> anchor a Death Touch spell onto a sword you want to anchor it to the
> blade NOT the entire sword. ;) That way, the next thing to touch the
> blade(hopefully the intended recipient) gets the effects of the Death
> Touch.

OK, so does the blade die when it goes off?? ;-)


--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 9
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:21 AM 8/21/96 -0700, someone wrote:

>(Ref to problems of anchoring/quickening instant duration spells)
>(Rolling damage)
>
>I'd suggest the GM make the roll in private. So the caster/designer in
>question has no idea of how well he did, and for some fun further down
>the line. (The idea of a very good or very poor spell...:)

I don't know. The idea of anchoring Combat spells on weapons still seems
dodgy to me, although anchoring the spell at a point in conjunction with a
Detect person(?) spell sounds more feasible.


--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 10
From: RDCX39A@*******.com (MR CHRIS R READLE)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:35:01, -0500
-- [ From: Chris Readle * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

<snip>
> > Not really, when an anchored spell goes off its considered to
be
> cast
> > by/on the object to which it is anchored. Which is why when
you
> > anchor a Death Touch spell onto a sword you want to anchor it
to the
> > blade NOT the entire sword. ;) That way, the next thing to
touch
> the
> > blade(hopefully the intended recipient) gets the effects of the
> Death
> > Touch.
>
> OK, so does the blade die when it goes off?? ;-)

No silly, the mage is basically casting Death Touch on him/herself when
he casts the spell, but it is actually affecting the person that he
touchs....sort of like a touch activation link in an anchored spell.

chris
Message no. 11
From: RDCX39A@*******.com (MR CHRIS R READLE)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 01:12:46, -0500
-- [ From: Chris Readle * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

> Date: Wednesday, 21-Aug-96 08:34 PM
>
> From: Ubiquitous \ Internet: (weberm@*******.net)
> To: Chris Readle \ PRODIGY: (RDCX39A)
>
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
>
> At 11:21 AM 8/21/96 -0700, someone wrote:
>
> >(Ref to problems of anchoring/quickening instant duration spells)
> >(Rolling damage)
> >
> >I'd suggest the GM make the roll in private. So the caster/designer
in
> >question has no idea of how well he did, and for some fun further
down
> >the line. (The idea of a very good or very poor spell...:)
>
> I don't know. The idea of anchoring Combat spells on weapons still
seems
> dodgy to me, although anchoring the spell at a point in conjunction
with a
> Detect person(?) spell sounds more feasible.
>
Think of it this way: IMHO, when a mage casts Death Touch what he's
really doing is anchoring the spell to his body with a touch activation
link....all the anchoring ritual is allowing him to do is to achor the
spell to an object, such as a sword. You don't have to spend karma on
it when you are casting it like normal because you are already magical
(otherwise you wouldn't be casting spells....sneaky, huh? :).

chris
Message no. 12
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:43:42 +0000
On 21 Aug 96 at 11:21, Dvixen Vidi Vici wrote:
> (Ref to problems of anchoring/quickening instant duration spells)
> (Rolling damage)
> I'd suggest the GM make the roll in private. So the caster/designer in
> question has no idea of how well he did, and for some fun further down
> the line. (The idea of a very good or very poor spell...:)
Grimoire, p. 49: "Every Time the [anchored] spell activates, it is neccessary
to make another Force Test against the appropriate standard target numbers to
determine its effect."

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 13
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 08:43:42 +0000
On 21 Aug 96 at 12:16, Ubiquitous wrote:
[snip]
> Hol on. Don't you know it's rude to speak with one's mouth is full? ;-)
HOL is 'cay by me :-)

> I still don't see how one could do it, however, since the anchored spell
> only effects the object it is anchored to (unless it's an area of effect
> spell, which is also foolish), so anchoring Death touch to a sword will do
> nothing, since mana spells do not affect non-living things. Similarly, I
> don't think anchoring Increase Strength +4 to a sword would help someone
> holding it as it is currently listed.
But by the same logic a spell would only affect the caster...
Or, to go by the book, (Grim p.49) "When activated they [the spells] either
affect a target at ground zero or else those within its area of effect." Have
a look at Death Touch, Area of Effect: Touch. And surely the blade touches the
enemy?

> As I understood it, you have to use a sustained DM spell (would Flame Aura
> suffice?) to hurt someone else.
I am sorry, but the Grimoire has a completly differnt view on this...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 14
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 11:41:19 +0100
readle.cr@**.com said on 12:26/21 Aug 96...

> This problem would also result for non-area of effect DMs too, since they
> are only targetted at a single target.
>
> At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does DM stand for? Thanks.

Damaging Manipulation spell. Much shorter and handier to use, especially
after one lengthy discussion about how to resolve sustained DMs.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
No drinking before marriage!
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 15
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:36:58 +1100
> At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does DM stand for? Thanks.

Damaging Manipulations.


--
*************************************************************************
* .--_ # "My opinions may have changed, but not the fact *
* _-0(#)) # that I'm right." -- Old Fortune Saying *
* @__ )/ # *
* )=(===__==,= # Robert Watkins <---> robertdw@*******.com.au *
* {}== \--==--`= # *
* ,_) \ # "A friend is someone who watches the same *
* L_===__)=, # TV programs as you" *
*************************************************************************
Message no. 16
From: "Damion Milliken" <dam01@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:06:56 +1000 (EST)
readle.cr@**.com writes:

> Not really, when an anchored spell goes off its considered to be cast
> by/on the object to which it is anchored. Which is why when you
> anchor a Death Touch spell onto a sword you want to anchor it to the
> blade NOT the entire sword. ;) That way, the next thing to touch the
> blade(hopefully the intended recipient) gets the effects of the Death
> Touch.

The only problem here is that it probably wouldn't be possible to Anchor the
spell _only_ to the blade of the sword. You see, the sword, in its
entirety, is a single entity as far as an aura is concerned (just like a
vehicle is considered to be a single entity as far as magic is concerned -
you can't cast spells at just one wheel for example). Thus it would not be
possible to Anchor to the blade, but _not_ the hilt, as both components are
part of the single entity (the sword).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au

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Message no. 17
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 23:09:41 -0600
>The only problem here is that it probably wouldn't be possible to Anchor the
>spell _only_ to the blade of the sword. You see, the sword, in its
>entirety, is a single entity as far as an aura is concerned (just like a
>vehicle is considered to be a single entity as far as magic is concerned -
>you can't cast spells at just one wheel for example). Thus it would not be
>possible to Anchor to the blade, but _not_ the hilt, as both components are
>part of the single entity (the sword).
>
>--

How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
bullets instead of firing them...

Dr Feelgood
Message no. 18
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:28:15 GMT
Mike and Jill Johnson writes
>
> How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
> bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> spirit..
just use 'blast insect spirit' then you cannot blow your friends up :)

>but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> bullets instead of firing them...
>
Mark
Message no. 19
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[4]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 26 Aug 96 08:38:00 -0400
>The only problem here is that it probably wouldn't be possible to Anchor the
>spell _only_ to the blade of the sword. You see, the sword, in its
>entirety, is a single entity as far as an aura is concerned (just like a
>vehicle is considered to be a single entity as far as magic is concerned -
>you can't cast spells at just one wheel for example). Thus it would not be
>possible to Anchor to the blade, but _not_ the hilt, as both components are
>part of the single entity (the sword).
>
>--

How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
bullets instead of firing them...

Dr Feelgood

Why not just anchor a slay insect form spell to it? Just as effective
without the risk....*evil GM grin* spirits can close to melee range FAST ;)

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 20
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <shadow@*****.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:22:39 -0600
>> How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
>> bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
>> bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
>> spirit..
>just use 'blast insect spirit' then you cannot blow your friends up :)
>


Hey... thats even better....

Dr Feelgood
Message no. 21
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:43:37 +0000
On 25 Aug 96 at 23:09, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
> bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> bullets instead of firing them...
*GASP* Do you know what you'd have to spend Karma-wise to get a magazine clip
od these? Plus having Firearms B/R, of course. And what do you do if you are
ambushed by an insect spirit? The Detect-Spell would have 6+ meters radius.
Better start praying none of the darn beasts comes that near. Or maybe you've
a nice GM who allows you to hold back twelve dice when casting the detection
spell and so limits the range on the bullet itself (*TWELVE DICE*? In
Anchoring? Huh...)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 22
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:56:25 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:06 AM 8/26/96 +1000, Damion wrote:
>readle.cr@**.com writes:

>> Not really, when an anchored spell goes off its considered to be cast
>> by/on the object to which it is anchored. Which is why when you
>> anchor a Death Touch spell onto a sword you want to anchor it to the
>> blade NOT the entire sword. ;) That way, the next thing to touch the
>> blade(hopefully the intended recipient) gets the effects of the Death
>> Touch.
>
>The only problem here is that it probably wouldn't be possible to Anchor the
>spell _only_ to the blade of the sword. You see, the sword, in its
>entirety, is a single entity as far as an aura is concerned (just like a
>vehicle is considered to be a single entity as far as magic is concerned -
>you can't cast spells at just one wheel for example). Thus it would not be
>possible to Anchor to the blade, but _not_ the hilt, as both components are
>part of the single entity (the sword).

Exactly! Actually, I sppse you could get around this by enchanting the blade
and then later attaching it to the hilt, but you still have the problem of
it either targeting the hilt or whoever you poked.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 23
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:08:23 -0500 (EST)
>. . . but you still have the problem of it either targeting the hilt or
whoever you poked.

Most mana spells won't target the hilt, as it is not a living target. And I
thought you wanted the spell to target whoever you poked anyway?



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 24
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:16:28 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:09 PM 8/25/96 -0600, Dr Feelgood wrote:

>How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
>bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti-bug
>bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
>spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
>bullets instead of firing them...

Better replace Mana Blast with a Mana Blast Bug spell so you don't hit
everyone within a (average) 6 meter radius from where it goes off.

Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection spells is determined by
a Force(4?) test * caster's Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you might
have a Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen yet.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 25
From: Jeffrey Riordan <JRIORDAN@***.gov>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring -Reply
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:32:16 -0400
>>> Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net> 08/26/96
10:16am >>>
At 11:09 PM 8/25/96 -0600, Dr Feelgood wrote:

>How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a
mana blast spell to a
>bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and
Bang an anti-bug
>bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand
with an insect
>spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually
throw some of the
>bullets instead of firing them...

Better replace Mana Blast with a Mana Blast Bug
spell so you don't hit everyone within a (average) 6
meter radius from where it goes off.

Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection
spells is determined by a Force(4?) test * caster's
Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you might have a
Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen
yet.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Here is a question regarding Detection spells such
as detect lifeform etc. Do they detect say a human
mage on the astral plane who happens to come within
the range of the spell? Also does it detect enemies on
the Astral plane such as Spirits and Mages who are
unfriendly? At a glance I would say yes but then what
happens to the spell that is anchored that way that
goes off and has no "target" since it's on the Astral
plane. I guess my real question is does a detect spell
work on the Auras of targets (hence the astral plane) or
just the Biological part?

Jriordan@***.gov
Message no. 26
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[4]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 26 Aug 96 10:35:00 -0400
On 25 Aug 96 at 23:09, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
> bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> bullets instead of firing them...
*GASP* Do you know what you'd have to spend Karma-wise to get a magazine clip
od these? Plus having Firearms B/R, of course. And what do you do if you are
ambushed by an insect spirit? The Detect-Spell would have 6+ meters radius.
Better start praying none of the darn beasts comes that near. Or maybe you've
a nice GM who allows you to hold back twelve dice when casting the detection
spell and so limits the range on the bullet itself (*TWELVE DICE*? In
Anchoring? Huh...)


I'm with you here....I could MAYBE see doing it for a single clip if you
knew you were going into Chicago and had that long to plan....but
otherwise you ruin the only thing that makes anchoring palatable(other
than the fact that you can do delayed reaction type things with them) the
real beauty of anchoring is that when you prepare an item for anchoring
you can reuse it as much as you want without reenchanting the item itself.
With bullets, assuming that you have the time to drag the bodies away so
you can pick the bullets out the action of melting them down and recasting
them would, IMHO, ruin whatever enchanting had been performed on them.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 27
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:10:00 GMT
Ubiquitous writes

> At 11:09 PM 8/25/96 -0600, Dr Feelgood wrote:
>
> >How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> >bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti-bug
> >bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> >spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> >bullets instead of firing them...
>
> Better replace Mana Blast with a Mana Blast Bug spell so you don't hit
> everyone within a (average) 6 meter radius from where it goes off.
>
Also better when the true forms arrive and start manifesting 2 meters
off the PC's noses.

otherwise.
BUG!!, whomph, oops.. thud thud thud, ah now why have i got 6 bugs
and no friends,,[mage he had shielding], ah slice slice slice... oh
well, mage crisps anyone? just need cooking.

> Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection spells is determined by
> a Force(4?) test * caster's Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you might
> have a Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen yet.
>
design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
simple enough.
> --
Mark
Message no. 28
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring -Reply
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 16:12:50 GMT
Jeffrey Riordan writes

> Here is a question regarding Detection spells such
> as detect lifeform etc. Do they detect say a human
> mage on the astral plane who happens to come within
> the range of the spell? Also does it detect enemies on
> the Astral plane such as Spirits and Mages who are
> unfriendly?
target numbers vary
in LOS 4's,
out LOS 6's
astral 10's
See the detect enemies spell.
In each case add the local background count number to target numbers.

> At a glance I would say yes but then what
> happens to the spell that is anchored that way that
> goes off and has no "target" since it's on the Astral
> plane. I guess my real question is does a detect spell
> work on the Auras of targets (hence the astral plane) or
> just the Biological part?
An anchored spell might be able to affect either or both a bit GM's
opinion, however one set for physical targets that detects an astral
mage is going off, it just might well fail to hurt anything.

Mark
Message no. 29
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring -Reply
Date: 26 Aug 96 11:29:00 -0400
Jeffrey Riordan writes

> Here is a question regarding Detection spells such
> as detect lifeform etc. Do they detect say a human
> mage on the astral plane who happens to come within
[snip a bunch of stuff about target numbers]

> At a glance I would say yes but then what
> happens to the spell that is anchored that way that
> goes off and has no "target" since it's on the Astral
> plane. I guess my real question is does a detect spell
> work on the Auras of targets (hence the astral plane) or
> just the Biological part?
An anchored spell might be able to affect either or both a bit GM's
opinion, however one set for physical targets that detects an astral
mage is going off, it just might well fail to hurt anything.

Here's an interesting thought. How about an anchored detect astral
presence type spell that triggers an astrally targeted mana blast that is
just(and I do mean just) >inside< a nice opaque ward....nasty little
present for those mages that think a ward is only a passive defence. *evil
GM grin*

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 30
From: "Ferri Pagano" <Ferri_Pagano_at_STRM__Amsterdam1@******.com>
Subject: Re[5]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 17:29:24 EST
------------------reply--------------------------


On 25 Aug 96 at 23:09, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
> How about this for an a
horing type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to
a > bullet with the trigger being Detect insect sp
irit. and Bang an anti
bu
g

> bullet... of course you better not get into hand t
o hand with an insect
> spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actua
lly throw some of the > bullets instead of firing them...
*GASP* Do you know
what you'd have to spend Karma-wise to get a magazine clip od these? Plus
having Firearms B/R, of course. And what do you do if you are ambushed by an
insect spirit? The Detect-Spell would
have 6+ meters radius. Better start praying none of the darn beasts comes tha
t near. Or maybe you've a nice GM who allows you to hold back twelve dice whe
n casting the detection spell and so limits the range on the bullet itself (
*TWELVE DICE*? In Anchoring? Huh...)


I'm with you here....I could MAYBE see doing it for a single clip if you
knew you were going into Chicago and had that long to plan....but
otherwise you ruin the only thing that makes anchoring palatable(other
than the fact that you can do delayed reaction type things with them) the
real beauty of anchoring is that when you prepare an item for anchoring
you can reuse it as much as you want without reenchanting the item itself.
With bullets, assuming that you have the time to drag the bodies away so
you can pick the bullets out the action of melting them down and recasting
them would, IMHO, ruin whatever enchanting had been performed on them.

chris
<Zero length text item>

-------------
hmmmmmm... yes, but try dikoted arrows!!!!
[to all my players, don't ask, I'd NEVER allow it]
Ferri
[Yup, I'm BAck!]
Message no. 31
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[6]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: 26 Aug 96 12:36:00 -0400
[snip long discussion about anchoring that ended with a comment about
Chicago]
-------------
hmmmmmm... yes, but try dikoted arrows!!!!
[to all my players, don't ask, I'd NEVER allow it]
Ferri
[Yup, I'm BAck!]

The only problem I see with that is that you are limited to using your
Willpower as your skill. Unless you are an otaku we're talking a max of
maybe 7 dice with NO combat pool. With the anchored spell at least you
have a decent chance of coing some serious damage and at longer range.

chris

<Zero length text item>
Message no. 32
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:40:33 -0700
Mark Steedman wrote:
>
> Ubiquitous writes
>
> > At 11:09 PM 8/25/96 -0600, Dr Feelgood wrote:
> >
> > >How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> > >bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti-bug
> > >bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> > >spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> > >bullets instead of firing them...
> >
> > Better replace Mana Blast with a Mana Blast Bug spell so you don't hit
> > everyone within a (average) 6 meter radius from where it goes off.
> >
> Also better when the true forms arrive and start manifesting 2 meters
> off the PC's noses.
>
> otherwise.
> BUG!!, whomph, oops.. thud thud thud, ah now why have i got 6 bugs
> and no friends,,[mage he had shielding], ah slice slice slice... oh
> well, mage crisps anyone? just need cooking.
>
> > Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection spells is determined by
> > a Force(4?) test * caster's Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you might
> > have a Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen yet.
> >
> design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
> simple enough.
> > --
> Mark

General detection spells, if I remember correctly can detect line of
sight at a T#4, out of LOS at a T#6 and on the astral plane at T#10 as
long as the mage declares what field he his probing with the spell. So
maybe he may want to consider detecting to astral plane and not waiting
for the buggers to manifest, should he accept the higher T# to do so.

The probing of the astral plane should also affect any physically
manifest forms since at that time they're existing both astrally and
physically.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 33
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:48:08 -0700
readle.cr@**.com wrote:
>
> [snip long discussion about anchoring that ended with a comment about
> Chicago]
> -------------
> hmmmmmm... yes, but try dikoted arrows!!!!
> [to all my players, don't ask, I'd NEVER allow it]
> Ferri
> [Yup, I'm BAck!]
>
> The only problem I see with that is that you are limited to using your
> Willpower as your skill. Unless you are an otaku we're talking a max of
> maybe 7 dice with NO combat pool. With the anchored spell at least you
> have a decent chance of coing some serious damage and at longer range.
>
> chris

If you're allowing your runners the rule of going to 1.5 times the
racial maximum for double the Karma cost per SRII page 190 (i.e. 16
karma from 7 --> 8 for a dwarf), then there's a potential for a WILL of
10. But I agree your point is still about the same...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 34
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[5]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 22:27:04 +0000
On 26 Aug 96 at 17:29, Ferri Pagano wrote:
[snip bullets with spells anchored on]
> hmmmmmm... yes, but try dikoted arrows!!!!
> [to all my players, don't ask, I'd NEVER allow it]
Forget Dikote when you try to enchant an arrow for anchoring. But with arrows
you'd have at least a _chance_ to reuse it (just hope that nasty bug doesn't
drop on it just for nastiness... :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 35
From: The Jestyr <s421539@*******.gu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:11:11 +1000 (EST)
> > How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
> > bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit. and Bang an anti bug
> > bullet... of course you better not get into hand to hand with an insect
> > spirit.. but if you did get desperate you could actually throw some of the
> > bullets instead of firing them...
>
> *GASP* Do you know what you'd have to spend Karma-wise to get a magazine clip
> od these? Plus having Firearms B/R, of course. And what do you do if you are

Why firearms B/R? All you gotta do is cast the spell on x bullets, load x
bullets into clip (which as far as I know does NOT require Firearms Break
& Repair), and you're ready to go. If short on Karma. :)


Lady Jestyr

------------------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect... in a world full of icebergs
------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes s421539@*****.student.gu.edu.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503
------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 36
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:21:49 -0400 (EDT)
> Here is a question regarding Detection spells such
>as detect lifeform etc. Do they detect say a human
>mage on the astral plane who happens to come within
>the range of the spell? Also does it detect enemies on
>the Astral plane such as Spirits and Mages who are
>unfriendly?

Yes, in fact there is!
It's in SR2 right before the section on Divination spells, which
also happens to be where it describes how to determine the range for
detection spells.

Basically, the target numbers are as follows:
Visible target: 4
Invisible target: 6
Astral traget: 8

When you roll the success dice, I think you're sppsed to compare the highest
roll to these targets.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 37
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:27:21 -0400 (EDT)
At 04:10 PM 8/26/96 GMT, Mark wrote:
>Ubiquitous writes
>> At 11:09 PM 8/25/96 -0600, Dr Feelgood wrote:

>> >How about this for an anchoring type Item... anchor a mana blast spell to a
>> >bullet with the trigger being Detect insect spirit.
>
>> Better replace Mana Blast with a Mana Blast Bug spell so you don't hit
>> everyone within a (average) 6 meter radius from where it goes off.
>
>> Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection spells is determined by
>> a Force(4?) test * caster's Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you might
>> have a Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen yet.
>>
>design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
>simple enough.

Don't you mean LOS? Detection spells by default have an area of effect,
otherwise they wouldn't be very usefull.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 38
From: "Sascha Pabst" <Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.DE>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:28:52 +0000
On 27 Aug 96 at 8:11, The Jestyr wrote:
[bullets with spells anchored to them]
> > *GASP* Do you know what you'd have to spend Karma-wise to get a magazine clip
> > od these? Plus having Firearms B/R, of course. And what do you do if you are

> Why firearms B/R? All you gotta do is cast the spell on x bullets, load x
> bullets into clip (which as far as I know does NOT require Firearms Break
> & Repair), and you're ready to go. If short on Karma. :)
You are right. I was under the impression one had to create the object on his
own, but that was wrong. in fact, one can't even save Karma when enchanting
the object. Hm, totally wrong here. No B/R needed. Sorry.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 39
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:06:32 -0700
Ubiquitous wrote:
>
> > Here is a question regarding Detection spells such
> >as detect lifeform etc. Do they detect say a human
> >mage on the astral plane who happens to come within
> >the range of the spell? Also does it detect enemies on
> >the Astral plane such as Spirits and Mages who are
> >unfriendly?
>
> Yes, in fact there is!
> It's in SR2 right before the section on Divination spells, which
> also happens to be where it describes how to determine the range for
> detection spells.
>
> Basically, the target numbers are as follows:
> Visible target: 4
> Invisible target: 6
> Astral traget: 8
>
> When you roll the success dice, I think you're sppsed to compare the highest
> roll to these targets.

Actually, the T#'s are 4 for targets within sight, 6 for subjects out of
sight, and 10 for beings in astral space. According to SRII page 152,
"the magician declares the nature of the information sought. This sets
the target number...The magician then makes a Success Test, rolling
Force dice against that target number."


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 40
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:52:46 +0100
Ubiquitous said on 18:27/26 Aug 96...

> >design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
> >simple enough.
>
> Don't you mean LOS? Detection spells by default have an area of effect,
> otherwise they wouldn't be very usefull.

LOS detection spells are not allowed, and area-effect is not required for
them either. For example, Mind Probe is not an AE spell (it would be a bit
hard to find the data you need when you're picking up the thoughts of
everyone in the room...). For general detection spells like Detect Life,
area-effect is a necessity, of course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll watch it from the room inside my room.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 41
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re[6]: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:16:36 GMT
readle writes

> -------------
> hmmmmmm... yes, but try dikoted arrows!!!!
> [to all my players, don't ask, I'd NEVER allow it]
According to awakenings dikote does not affect damage codes vs
spirits.

> The only problem I see with that is that you are limited to using your
> Willpower as your skill. Unless you are an otaku we're talking a max of
> maybe 7 dice with NO combat pool. With the anchored spell at least you
> have a decent chance of coing some serious damage and at longer range.
>
Yes but anchoring eats up the mages/shamans karma, they can throw
spells at the thing so are unlikely to want to spend karma on one
shot item so the mundanes can hurt them.
Its much more effective to give all the mundanes staffs or polearms,
reach +2 so they hit. Even if they don't hurt the bugs they will keep
them busy while the manabolts fly. Anchoring could be used just make
sure you can get the item back, a limited range, 'det bug' if so
'nuke bug' area effect (but only bugs) is worth it, one shot arrows
are not, anchoring is expensive!!

Mark
Message no. 42
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 11:26:48 GMT
Loki writes

> > > Also, I hope you realize that the range of detection spells is determined
by
> > > a Force(4?) test * caster's Magic rating.... If you aren't careful, you
might
> > > have a Mana Blast go off because of a bug you haven't seen yet.
> > >
> > design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
> > simple enough.
> > > --
> > Mark
>
> General detection spells, if I remember correctly can detect line of
> sight at a T#4, out of LOS at a T#6 and on the astral plane at T#10 as
> long as the mage declares what field he his probing with the spell. So
> maybe he may want to consider detecting to astral plane and not waiting
> for the buggers to manifest, should he accept the higher T# to do so.
>
> The probing of the astral plane should also affect any physically
> manifest forms since at that time they're existing both astrally and
> physically.
>
Normally yes, though in Chicago you could ave problems considering
the number of bugs just hanging about on the astral.

Your standard det life/eneimes spell has a range of self or touch and
an area effect of limited. Ie you place it on you or someone you
touch, and it detects all whatevers within magic rating times success
at the listed target number.
Your reason for wanting area effect as in 'detect things within magic
meters of base' is you want the detection spell to be smaller than
the blow them up, otherwise roll two success and the splat bug goes
off while the bugs still out of range, oops.... (wait for tearing PC
noises) This all gets complicated to explian by email but i hope you
see what i'm getting at.

Mark
Message no. 43
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Quickening and Anchoring
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 20:52:35 +1100
>>design an 'area effect' rather than 'limited range' detection spell,
>>simple enough.
>
>Don't you mean LOS? Detection spells by default have an area of effect,
>otherwise they wouldn't be very usefull.

FASA terminology... AoE spells only affect things within the range and
visibile to the caster. Limited range doesn't worry about this (so a
"detect living" can pick up things behind a wall, or behind the caster)


--
* *
/_\ "A friend is someone who likes the same TV programs you do" /_\
{~._.~} "Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen {~._.~}
( Y ) to be dressed for it." -- Woody Allen ( Y )
()~*~() Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au ()~*~()
(_)-(_) (_)-(_)

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