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Message no. 1
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 17:10:39 -0400 (EDT)
At 11:57 PM 8/14/96 -0500, Steve wrote:

>We have a regular gaming group that plays every Sunday night. Over the last
>several weeks, it has been getting larger, and larger, until we peaked at 13
>players last week.
>Well, to make a long story short, some of the players decided to "weed out
>the deadwood" and proceeded to sabotage several players.

[snip]

How childish.

>Anybody else got similar stories?

Thank gawd, no.

--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 2
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 04:11:27 -0500 (EST)
>>Well, to make a long story short, some of the players decided to "weed out
>>the deadwood" and proceeded to sabotage several players.

Understand that this group consists of players ranging in ages from 12 - 27.
It's essentially an open game, with all the insanity that entails. We try to
kkep things loose and easy, but occaisionally there are players that simply
are taking up space, and time. These are the goofballs that are sorting
their pocket change and ammunition while the team is in the middle of a run.
Their inexperience isn't the problem - it's their immaturity, and
unwillingness to learn. While I couldn't exactly (as GM) encourage the
assassins, I did nothing to stop them from solving what was becoming a large
problem.

>How childish.

Exactly. But all things considered, I'll trade one night of selfish
childishness to establish a more cohesive team, and settle the group back
into a more manageable form.
This was essentially our groups solution to several problem players. It was
an ugly solution, but it worked. Those players that were more interested in
screwing the team rather than working on a serious run have flown on back to
their games of Magic:The Gathering, or Warhammer 40K, and left me a solid
core of dedicated role-players.
Since "Hell Night" the team has shrunk to a more manageable 6, and the
"munchkin level" has dropped considerably. All in all not a bad deal.



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 3
From: Ubiquitous <weberm@*******.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 11:31:32 -0400 (EDT)
At 04:11 AM 8/20/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>>Well, to make a long story short, some of the players decided to "weed
out
>>>the deadwood" and proceeded to sabotage several players.
>
>Understand that this group consists of players ranging in ages from 12 - 27.

I wish you had said this in the first place!

>It's essentially an open game, with all the insanity that entails. We try to
>kkep things loose and easy, but occaisionally there are players that simply
>are taking up space, and time. These are the goofballs that are sorting
>their pocket change and ammunition while the team is in the middle of a run.
>Their inexperience isn't the problem - it's their immaturity, and
>unwillingness to learn. While I couldn't exactly (as GM) encourage the
>assassins, I did nothing to stop them from solving what was becoming a large
>problem.
>
>>How childish.
>
>Exactly. But all things considered, I'll trade one night of selfish
>childishness to establish a more cohesive team, and settle the group back
>into a more manageable form.

I think it woiuld have been better to have simpoly dropped them, rather
than get your players to kill them off.


--
"I dyde shyte thre grete toordes." Fables of Aesop,
Caxton translation,
V15 1484
Message no. 4
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[2]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: 20 Aug 96 12:12:00 -0400
Try this on for size....group of semi-experienced chars being run by
decently experienced players in Chicago(not long after the wall went up).
The characters had just gotten done with an invigorating(and useless)
battle against a bunch of ant workers when the shaman that was shepherding
the workers(putzy, low threat rating, non initiated ant shaman) decided to
teach these guys a lesson(the player magical types were all masked of
course, and they didn't use any magic during the battle except for the
physad) so he tosses a Force 8 Fire Bomb at the party(and almost dies from
the drain) and takes off. So the runners all resist the damage( I think
the heaviest was a serious) when one of the players turns to another and
says, "Oh crap! What about all those grenades your guys are carrying?"(one
of the players hired a bunch of extra muscle before they went in and was
running them as well as his own char). To cut a long story short(I know,
too late) these boneheads had a grand total of about 100 grenades(which are
SOOOO effective against spirits) and the party was crammed into about a 2
meter section of pavement having a discussion.....not pretty. I think the
closest to living was the troll sam that had about 30 or so points of over
damage. I've noticed a decided drop in the number of grenades carried....
;)

chris
Message no. 5
From: bluewizard@*****.com (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 1996 14:51:10 -0500 (EST)
>I think it woiuld have been better to have simpoly dropped them, rather
>than get your players to kill them off.

Definately. But I guess I didn't explain it well. I didn't "get" anyone to
kill them off. The players came up with the plot themselves. My only part in
this was as GM. I did nothing to encourage them. I simply moderated the mayhem!
Angel, a physad decided that since the team was being paid a lump sum to
complete the adventure, they would each make more yen if the team was
smaller. He took it upon HIMSELF to make that happen!
I took a break when Angel's player proposed his action to me - to think
about the ramifications of this action. I wasn't in favor of it, but since
it was a logical thing for his character to do, I allowed him to try it. He
successfully sabotaged several player's parachutes, and they fell to their
deaths. He then booby trapped the cars.
I should point out that Angel is extremely stealthy, and a very well
designed, well thought out character. This action was not motivated by
"Let's be a jerk and kill Billy cause he's a little twerp and I don't like
him." That kind of stuff gets immediately STOPPED in my campaigns. If two
players have a problem, they settle it outside the game. If two PC's have a
problem in the game that's fair.

In retrospect, I would have loved to just trim the group myself, but that is
the price you pay for having your hobby subsidised by a school. (Makes me a
wage-GM, eh?)



The Way of the Hero

In each truly heroic struggle there is a time of commitment.
A time when human energies fail, yet more is required . . . and more is given.
Few are equal to that task.
Often that effort ends in failure, for victory is not always for the brave.
But where a man might falter, these ones do not, not while life and spirit
endure.
Not until the last measure is given.
To transcend the man, become the hero.
Message no. 6
From: Richard M Conroy <Richard_M_Conroy@***.ir.intel.com>
Subject: Re[2]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 96 10:51:00 PDT
Chris wrote:
[snip~description of fireball vs grenades]

Umm, I'm not sure if grenades would spontaneously explode due to a burst
of fire. Those explosives are pretty stable, and the fuses are
electronic ie reliable. A fireball would have very badly singed the
armor of the players (probably damaged it) before it would destroy the
grenades. I'd say the grenades would have to catch fire first before
they'd blow.

Also. Isn't worn equipment under a persons aura ? Wouldn't it only take
damage appropriate to the amount that the character took ? Although
anything outside this is fair game really, and it would only take 1
grenade to set the rest off.

Has anyone got a ruling on this ? It seems a common enough occurence
that there should be something about it, and also to prevent the usual
fireball-em-and-watch-their-ammo-cook-off. Ideas anyone ?

Richard.
O--------------------------------------------------------------------O
\Food for thought lies in the\Richard_M_Conroy@\Roadkill on the Info \
\depth of an inedible brick. \ccm.ir.intel.com \-rmation SuperHighway\
O-------------------------------------------------------------------O
Message no. 7
From: "Mark Steedman" <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:27:55 GMT
Richard M Conroy writes

> [snip~description of fireball vs grenades]
>
> Umm, I'm not sure if grenades would spontaneously explode due to a burst
> of fire. Those explosives are pretty stable, and the fuses are
> electronic ie reliable. A fireball would have very badly singed the
> armor of the players (probably damaged it) before it would destroy the
> grenades. I'd say the grenades would have to catch fire first before
> they'd blow.
>
> Also. Isn't worn equipment under a persons aura ? Wouldn't it only take
> damage appropriate to the amount that the character took ? Although
> anything outside this is fair game really, and it would only take 1
> grenade to set the rest off.
>
> Has anyone got a ruling on this ? It seems a common enough occurence
> that there should be something about it, and also to prevent the usual
> fireball-em-and-watch-their-ammo-cook-off. Ideas anyone ?
>
have to quote all.
There are rules for this in the Grimiore under elemental effects. Yes
it is quite difficult to get ammo to cook off if you use a suitable
resistance number. Combat spells virtually cannot do it even if the
poor guys taking a deadly. However as you say all it takes is one
granade and on a 2D6 roll a double 6 is only 1 in 36, carry enough
kit and sooner or later there will be a rather large bang!


Mark
Message no. 8
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[3]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad
Date: 21 Aug 96 14:14:00 -0400
Chris wrote:
[snip~description of fireball vs grenades]

Umm, I'm not sure if grenades would spontaneously explode due to a burst
of fire. Those explosives are pretty stable, and the fuses are
electronic ie reliable. A fireball would have very badly singed the
armor of the players (probably damaged it) before it would destroy the
grenades. I'd say the grenades would have to catch fire first before
they'd blow.

Also. Isn't worn equipment under a persons aura ? Wouldn't it only take
damage appropriate to the amount that the character took ? Although
anything outside this is fair game really, and it would only take 1
grenade to set the rest off.

Has anyone got a ruling on this ? It seems a common enough occurence
that there should be something about it, and also to prevent the usual
fireball-em-and-watch-their-ammo-cook-off. Ideas anyone ?


I probably wasn't specific enough here. At the time, the group were on a
sidewalk at a corner gathered around in a circle, cleaning up their weapons
and discussing what to do next. They had their weapons spread out all over
the place so I didn't think that this would be considered a part of their
aura.(I actually didn't know they had so many grenades....I had just
planned on cooking off some ammo....the group knew beforehand that they
were going into Chicago and had SERIOUSLY stocked up....the bugs(that
weren't workers) were doing ok against them, but the human elements weren't
standing a chance.) At any rate, I gave the grenades a pretty high target
number to avoid going off as they were in clips(they were the mini grenades
that that cute little auto fire grenade launcher in FOF uses) and I
probably got through about the first 12 or so grenades when one finally
went off. The pretty much did it right there.

chris
<Zero length text item>
Message no. 9
From: GRANITE <granite@**.net>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad.
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 02:33:59 -0700
> until we peaked at 13
> >players last week.-
AArrgghhhh...There is no way I would GM that many people..I would
politley scream,
"NOOOOOOO...." err rather I would explain that my expertise would be
overloaded by that number
of players...:)
>
> >Anybody else got similar stories?
>
> Thank gawd, no.
> I unfortunately have a similar story..though it took place in ancient
history way back when A*&*
was simply D&D in it's first incarnation or so..And I had never played a
RP game before..I and a
couple of friends were asked to join a group of players that had been
playing together for a while
and wanted to increase their circle..Well the first night one of the
seasoned players grabs one of us
newbies and tosses him into a room of certain death..this sort of thing
happens several times during
the evening..although we all stick with it due to our new found interest
in RPGs we all want to learn
the ropes..Well all of a sudden some of our characters start getting
picked off in nongame time by
players who are spending some private time with the DM [supposedly] and
casting death spells from
afar and such..We all get fed up and decide to change systems so we can
all start out on an even
footing and start playing Gamma World..Well this quickly turns into
another arms race and all of a
sudden PCs are being nuked from orbit by satelites controlled by the old
timer players..Well us
newbies weren't so new any more and figures 2 can play at that game [so
to speak], So we were able
to escalate along with the other group...Us not so new newbies decided
enough was enough..we quit
playing with the old timers in any capacity..we created an all new system
ourselves..We didn't own
the books being used nor did we own any dice..so we created a low tech
world based on the movie
Mad Max [this was back when it was the only Mad Max movie and was shown
as the last feature in
triple features at something called a drive-in that had really crappy
speakers you had to hang on your
window [I miss those speakers and the drive-ins too]]that used slips of
paper to determine hits and
severity and such..I think I still have one or two of my old characters
floating around somewhere..We
had a lot more fun this way..

--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 10
From: Richard M Conroy <Richard_M_Conroy@***.ir.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [SR2] Shadowrong - a run gone bad
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 12:23:00 PDT
GRANITE wrote:
: >
: > >Anybody else got similar stories?
: >
: > Thank gawd, no.
: >
: I unfortunately have a similar story..though it took place in ancient
: history way back when A*&* was simply D&D in it's first incarnation or
: so..And I had never played a RP game before.
[snip~description of being inaugurated into a game just to get
continually fragged by seasoned (jaded?) players]

These are exactly the kind of players I despise. I've seen them in just
about every Game System I've ever played. They're so jaded about the
whole RP experience (probably because they never learned the enjoyment
of *really* roleplaying) that they can only get quick thrills from
spoiling other players evenings.

In my last campaign there were a couple of players like this. They'd
played for quite a long time, and some had even GM'ed, so I enlisted
their aid in trying to break in some new players.
To do this, they were set up in important positions in the team
(the decker, the fixer, the agent), and I had hoped that the new players
would follow in their example, which in hindsight I'm glad they didn't.
All these old sharks did was set up the newer players in various stings
and sit back and watch. The newer players didn't like it, but being less
experienced in gaming, didn't know how to voice their objections, IC or
OOC. Eventually all the old hands had nasty accidents. It wasn't even a
GM frag, they were so concentrated on ticking other players off that
they didn't understand that NPC's could act too.
I replaced them all with different players, and the game picked
up, but my whole campaign was set back about 2 months as I tried to
rebuild...

Richard.
O--------------------------------------------------------------------O
\Food for thought lies in the\Richard_M_Conroy@\Roadkill on the Info \
\depth of an inedible brick. \ccm.ir.intel.com \-rmation SuperHighway\
O-------------------------------------------------------------------O
Message no. 11
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.net.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 96 23:36:23 +1100
>Also. Isn't worn equipment under a persons aura ? Wouldn't it only take
>damage appropriate to the amount that the character took ? Although
>anything outside this is fair game really, and it would only take 1
>grenade to set the rest off.

The grenades take no damage from the magical component of the spell. From
the secondary effect of fire, the aura ain't no protection. That's real,
hot, fire there... Wether it'd set off a grenade or not, I have no
opinion, save that while the explosive might be stable, detonators are
usually a bit twitchy.


--
_______________________________________________________________________
/ \
| "As soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it |
| wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging |
| had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I |
| realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be |
| spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes |
| Robert Watkins robertdw@*******.com.au |
\_______________________________________________________________________/
Message no. 12
From: readle.cr@**.com
Subject: Re[4]: [SR2] Shadowrong - A run gone bad
Date: 22 Aug 96 10:39:00 -0400
>Also. Isn't worn equipment under a persons aura ? Wouldn't it only take
>damage appropriate to the amount that the character took ? Although
>anything outside this is fair game really, and it would only take 1
>grenade to set the rest off.

The grenades take no damage from the magical component of the spell. From
the secondary effect of fire, the aura ain't no protection. That's real,
hot, fire there... Wether it'd set off a grenade or not, I have no
opinion, save that while the explosive might be stable, detonators are
usually a bit twitchy.


Grenades certainly can and do take damage from spells, they are
physical objects and it is a physical spell. However, nonmagically
active worn equipment is considered to be part of a persons aura and
cannot be affected by the magical portion of the spell, but CAN be
affected by the secondary effect.

chris
<Zero length text item>

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