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Message no. 1
From: Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed abodoh@***.umd.edu
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:14:25 -0400 (EDT)
Two questions:

Was there a SR2->SR3 conversion pamphlet released? Is there one available
online maybe? I know there is a list of changes, but is there an actual
book for converting the characters, magic, etc.

Second, any idea why the proce of cell phones and home electronics was cut
by a factor of 10 for SR3. I realize a $1000 for a cell phone is a lot in
SR2, but I was amazed when one of my players pulled a 3rd edition
equipment list and I saw the differences. Was there a misprint in SR2?
Message no. 2
From: Cash, Josh CashJ@***************.com
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:13:46 -0500
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I think it largely has to do with the realization that electronics cost a
lot less than they did back when SR2 was made.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed [mailto:abodoh@***.umd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:14 PM
To: Phil Smith
Cc: shadowrn@*********.com
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions

Two questions:

Was there a SR2->SR3 conversion pamphlet released? Is there
one available
online maybe? I know there is a list of changes, but is
there an actual
book for converting the characters, magic, etc.

Second, any idea why the proce of cell phones and home
electronics was cut
by a factor of 10 for SR3. I realize a $1000 for a cell
phone is a lot in
SR2, but I was amazed when one of my players pulled a 3rd
edition
equipment list and I saw the differences. Was there a
misprint in SR2?




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<TITLE>RE: SR2-&gt;SR3 questions</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I think it largely has to do
with the realization that electronics cost a lot less than they did back when SR2 was
made.</FONT></P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME="_MailData"><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp; Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed [<A
HREF="mailto:abodoh@***.umd.edu">mailto:abodoh@***.umd.edu</A>]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT
SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:14 PM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B>
<FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Phil Smith</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">Cc:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B>
<FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">shadowrn@*********.com</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=2
FACE="Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B>
<FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">SR2-&gt;SR3 questions</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Two questions:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Was there a SR2-&gt;SR3
conversion pamphlet released?&nbsp; Is there one available</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">online maybe?&nbsp; I
know there is a list of changes, but is there an actual</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">book for converting the
characters, magic, etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Second, any idea why the
proce of cell phones and home electronics was cut</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">by a factor of 10 for
SR3.&nbsp; I realize a $1000 for a cell phone is a lot in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">SR2, but I was amazed when
one of my players pulled a 3rd edition</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">equipment list and I saw the
differences.&nbsp; Was there a misprint in SR2?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P>
</P>
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Message no. 3
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Fwd: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:37:43 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, Aaeron has been maling me stuff on the pretense that
everyone is recieving them, if not, I'm sure you guys can answer these
questions better than I could.


>From: "Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed" <abodoh@***.umd.edu>
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>To: Phil Smith <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>
>CC: shadowrn@*********.com
>Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
>Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:14:25 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Two questions:
>
>Was there a SR2->SR3 conversion pamphlet released? Is there one available
>online maybe? I know there is a list of changes, but is there an actual
>book for converting the characters, magic, etc.
>
>Second, any idea why the proce of cell phones and home electronics was cut
>by a factor of 10 for SR3. I realize a $1000 for a cell phone is a lot in
>SR2, but I was amazed when one of my players pulled a 3rd edition
>equipment list and I saw the differences. Was there a misprint in SR2?
>
>
>
>

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Message no. 4
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:19:21 +0200
According to Aaron L. Bodoh-Creed, at 14:14 on 19 Jul 00, the word on the
street was...

> Was there a SR2->SR3 conversion pamphlet released? Is there one available
> online maybe? I know there is a list of changes, but is there an actual
> book for converting the characters, magic, etc.

There is a text up on Herkimer's Lair (http://hlair.dumpshock.com) in the
errata section, and there was (is?) also one on a website whose URL I
can't remember that listed everything point-by-point. I'm not sure, but I
believe the ShadowFAQ (also on dumpshock.com) also lists the differences.

> Second, any idea why the proce of cell phones and home electronics was cut
> by a factor of 10 for SR3. I realize a $1000 for a cell phone is a lot in
> SR2, but I was amazed when one of my players pulled a 3rd edition
> equipment list and I saw the differences. Was there a misprint in SR2?

The SR2 prices were the same as those in SR1, so it wasn't a misprint. The
reason is quite obvious when you think about it, though: electronics,
especially mobile phones, have become much cheaper over the past 10 years.
What seemed like good prices in 1989 are ludicrous by today's standards.
(Although I suspect that part of the reason for the current cheapness of
mobile phones is because you're paying (almost?) less than what they cost
to make and put in a store.)

It would have been nice if they'd fixed the Concealability of handset
phones as well, though. Conceal 3 is about right for a 1989 mobile phone
(watch episodes of 1980s shows like Miami Vice and you'll see whay I mean)
but for a current phone it should be more like 6 to 8, IMHO. If the radio
part can be made smaller, that figure could go up, even.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Can we scratch beneath this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:48:42 +0900
On 7/20/00 6:19 PM, Gurth at gurth@******.nl wrote:

> The SR2 prices were the same as those in SR1, so it wasn't a misprint. The
> reason is quite obvious when you think about it, though: electronics,
> especially mobile phones, have become much cheaper over the past 10 years.
> What seemed like good prices in 1989 are ludicrous by today's standards.
> (Although I suspect that part of the reason for the current cheapness of
> mobile phones is because you're paying (almost?) less than what they cost
> to make and put in a store.)
Yup... a year or so ago here they were giving away cell phones free with the
purchase of a pair of $30 jeans. Someone was taking a loss there. :)

> It would have been nice if they'd fixed the Concealability of handset
> phones as well, though. Conceal 3 is about right for a 1989 mobile phone
> (watch episodes of 1980s shows like Miami Vice and you'll see whay I mean)
> but for a current phone it should be more like 6 to 8, IMHO. If the radio
> part can be made smaller, that figure could go up, even.

I'd say it already IS smaller. There are flip-phones the size of Zippo
lighters. I think they're PCS rather than cellular-- that seems to make
some difference from the models I've seen-- but anyway, that's right now.
60-odd years in the future, that'll probably be the *largest* size. I'd say
concealability of 8-10.

Not that that makes much difference. I just haven't posted anything in a
while and felt like blabbing. :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
I know how to have fun, but how exactly does one Wang Chung?
Message no. 6
From: Fanguad fanguad@****.rit.edu
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 10:22:44 -0400
> The SR2 prices were the same as those in SR1, so it wasn't a misprint. The
> reason is quite obvious when you think about it, though: electronics,
> especially mobile phones, have become much cheaper over the past 10 years.
> What seemed like good prices in 1989 are ludicrous by today's standards.
> (Although I suspect that part of the reason for the current cheapness of
> mobile phones is because you're paying (almost?) less than what they cost
> to make and put in a store.)

> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

Actually, I can confirm this. I work in a store that sell cell-phones. We
buy them from our supplier for 100-200 bucks, and sell them for 0-100
bucks. The reason we can do that is because the cell company gives
us a kick-back based on the value of the contract the customer signs.
If you don't want a contract, you're SOL - full price for the phone, 'cuz
we don't get any kick back.

The same is true(r) of DSS systems. (Digital Satelite Service?). Our
store sells them for $100, but it costs us nearly twice as much to buy
them. The supplier gives us such a huge kick-back we can do this.

Obviously, this practice will still be around in 2060 (it's simply another
form of "screw the customer"). You know that gridlink car you got for
2000 nuyen? Try the $100+/month 5-year contract that goes along with
it. I'm sure the same is true of _anything_ that has some sort of
recurring service attached.

-- Fanguad

---------------------------------

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Message no. 7
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:11:52 +0200
According to Fanguad, at 10:22 on 20 Jul 00, the word on the street was...

> Actually, I can confirm this. I work in a store that sell cell-phones. We
> buy them from our supplier for 100-200 bucks, and sell them for 0-100
> bucks. The reason we can do that is because the cell company gives
> us a kick-back based on the value of the contract the customer signs.
> If you don't want a contract, you're SOL - full price for the phone, 'cuz
> we don't get any kick back.

It gets even better if the store selling the infernal things is owned by
the phone company. You get the Polaroid situation (or these days, inkjet
printer situation) where you buy next to nothing for a product that should
be fairly expensive, but in order to use it you need to buy for something
else as well every so often -- film, ink cartridges, phone service, or
whatever.

> Obviously, this practice will still be around in 2060 (it's simply another
> form of "screw the customer"). You know that gridlink car you got for
> 2000 nuyen? Try the $100+/month 5-year contract that goes along with
> it.

That's not entirely the same -- you're still paying for the car there,
it's just smeared out over a longer time so you end up paying more. Your
analogy would work if you would buy the car from the company that runs the
GridLink system for next to nothing (say, 2000 nuyen) but then have to pay
a hefty fee for every kilometer you drive the thing.

> I'm sure the same is true of _anything_ that has some sort of recurring
> service attached.

Unfortunately...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Can we scratch beneath this?
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
<snipt!(TM) of phone guff>
> Not that that makes much difference. I just haven't
posted anything in a while and felt like blabbing. :)
> -moose

And believe me, the boy DOES like to talk...

;)

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

Can you SMELL what THE DOC' is COOKIN'!!!

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Message no. 9
From: Dan Grabon djmoose@******.kornet.net
Subject: SR2->SR3 questions
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 00:35:48 +0900
On 7/21/00 12:29 PM, Rand Ratinac at docwagon101@*****.com wrote:

> <snipt!(TM) of phone guff>
>> Not that that makes much difference. I just haven't
> posted anything in a while and felt like blabbing. :)
>> -moose
>
> And believe me, the boy DOES like to talk...
>
> ;)

Hey, I'm making up for the fact that very few people around me speak
English. I need to exercise it before I lose it :)

-moose

---
Dan "Moose" Grabon - djmoose@******.kornet.net
I know how to have fun, but how exactly does one Wang Chung?

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