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Message no. 1
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 02:36:01 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/1998 1:28:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:

> > P.S. Bonus, all Aspected Magicians have Astral Perception now.
> B>]#
>
> HALLELUJAH!!!! That'd been bugging me for months. Now ol' shamanic
> sorcerer Skywalker can actually do everything he could in the movies:
> see/talk to (but not summon) spirits, fight in melee while blindfolded,
> cast spells...

Okay, be warned, here's a guideline or three concernign Aspected Magicians.

first of all, all of the non-physical adepts, non-full magicians are "Aspected
Magicians" now. This includes the former Shamanic and Elemental Adepts, as
well as Sorceror, Enchanter, Conjuror.

All Aspected Magicians gain FULL Totemic Benefits from their totems, if they
are of "Shamanic Origin".

All Aspected Magicians have access to Astral Perception.

NO Aspected Magician has Astral Projection (at least not in this book, as the
"Astral Adept" is not mentioned anywhere).

Hope that helps...

-K
Message no. 2
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:00:01 +1200
Quoth K is the Symbol (1836 12-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>> > P.S. Bonus, all Aspected Magicians have Astral Perception now.
>> B>]#
>>
>> HALLELUJAH!!!! That'd been bugging me for months. Now ol' shamanic
>> sorcerer Skywalker can actually do everything he could in the
movies:
>> see/talk to (but not summon) spirits, fight in melee while
blindfolded,
>> cast spells...
>
>Okay, be warned, here's a guideline or three concernign Aspected
Magicians.
>
>first of all, all of the non-physical adepts, non-full magicians are
"Aspected
>Magicians" now. This includes the former Shamanic and Elemental
Adepts, as
>well as Sorceror, Enchanter, Conjuror.

Not a surprise, but it's good to hear it confirmed from the BABY's own
pages...

>All Aspected Magicians gain FULL Totemic Benefits from their totems, if
they
>are of "Shamanic Origin".

<EGMG> That could be useful...
BTW, I assume that you mean 'Totemic _Modifiers_', both positive and
negative, K?

>All Aspected Magicians have access to Astral Perception.

As you may have gathered from my previous post, this is _long_ overdue
in my eyes. Righteous!

>NO Aspected Magician has Astral Projection (at least not in this book,
as the
>"Astral Adept" is not mentioned anywhere).

Ah, well, not a problem anyway; in my game, no-one (not even full-blown
mages/shamans) can do a full Astral Projection until they initiate to
Grade 0. (I use Justin Pinnow's gradual initiation rules thereafter.)

>Hope that helps...

K, you're a legend.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
Message no. 3
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 03:22:18 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/1998 2:16:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:

> >All Aspected Magicians gain FULL Totemic Benefits from their totems, if
> they
> >are of "Shamanic Origin".
>
> <EGMG> That could be useful...
> BTW, I assume that you mean 'Totemic _Modifiers_', both positive and
> negative, K?

I am going to assume so for the games here, as we have done this as a House
Rule from day one almost. the exact rule, hold on...okay, it says that they
(Shamanists is the actual term used) ...are subject to all the requirements of
their Totem...so I would assume/presume this includes the negatives. Keeps
the game balance and whatnot ya know?? ;P

> >Hope that helps...
>
> K, you're a legend.

Nope, I'm not a legend, I'm a myth. Doc doom is the legend, Erik is the self-
proclaimed old-fogey. I'm a Myth, harder to actually confirm and almost as
confusing as MC's mystery... :)

-K
Message no. 4
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:45:57 -0400
Once upon a time, K is the Symbol wrote;

>I am going to assume so for the games here, as we have done this as a House
>Rule from day one almost. the exact rule, hold on...okay, it says that they
>(Shamanists is the actual term used) ...are subject to all the requirements of
>their Totem...so I would assume/presume this includes the negatives. Keeps
>the game balance and whatnot ya know?? ;P

Shamanist (aspected shamans) can only summon spirits and cast spells for
what they would get a totemic advantage.for. Or are you talking about the
other Aspected following the Shamanic tradition?


>Nope, I'm not a legend, I'm a myth. Doc doom is the legend, Erik is the
>self- proclaimed old-fogey. I'm a Myth, harder to actually confirm and
almost as
>confusing as MC's mystery... :)

B;>]#
-Moniker Confusing 23-
Message no. 5
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:16:23 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/1998 9:46:29 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:

> >I am going to assume so for the games here, as we have done this as a House
> >Rule from day one almost. the exact rule, hold on...okay, it says that
> they
> >(Shamanists is the actual term used) ...are subject to all the
requirements
> of
> >their Totem...so I would assume/presume this includes the negatives.
Keeps
> >the game balance and whatnot ya know?? ;P
>
> Shamanist (aspected shamans) can only summon spirits and cast spells for
> what they would get a totemic advantage.for. Or are you talking about the
> other Aspected following the Shamanic tradition?
>
Hmmm...hadn't noticed that before, and I know I was told during one of the
seminars' that all Aspected Magicians (Shamanically Oriented ones), gain their
totem bonuses/negatives...but it doesn't say yeah/nay in the reading on the
page. It does mention that Sorceror (and Conjuror above) gain the totem
bonuses though... have to find out on this one...

-K
Message no. 6
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:34:20 -0400
Once upon a time, K is the Symbol wrote;

>> Shamanist (aspected shamans) can only summon spirits and cast spells for
>> what they would get a totemic advantage.for. Or are you talking about the
>> other Aspected following the Shamanic tradition?
>>
>Hmmm...hadn't noticed that before, and I know I was told during one of the
>seminars' that all Aspected Magicians (Shamanically Oriented ones), gain
>their
>totem bonuses/negatives...but it doesn't say yeah/nay in the reading on the
>page. It does mention that Sorceror (and Conjuror above) gain the totem
>bonuses though... have to find out on this one...

BABY p.160 Hope that helps.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

CRY HAVOC! And let slip the flames of SR3

I am MC23
Message no. 7
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:00:43 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/1998 12:34:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mc23@**********.COM writes:

> >Hmmm...hadn't noticed that before, and I know I was told during one of the
> >seminars' that all Aspected Magicians (Shamanically Oriented ones), gain
> >their
> >totem bonuses/negatives...but it doesn't say yeah/nay in the reading on
the
> >page. It does mention that Sorceror (and Conjuror above) gain the totem
> >bonuses though... have to find out on this one...
>
> BABY p.160 Hope that helps.
>
Yes MC, I know that as that is where I was referring from in the above reply
paragraph. Believe me, I am getting the information down in rapid style.
It's part of the reason I have chosen to initiate many of the topical
conversations concerning SR3. It's making me go through the topics in review
and re-review.

-K
Message no. 8
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:57:50 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/98 10:17:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ereskanti@***.COM writes:

> Hmmm...hadn't noticed that before, and I know I was told during one of the
> seminars' that all Aspected Magicians (Shamanically Oriented ones), gain
> their
> totem bonuses/negatives

They may gaint he negatives of the totem, but I think they cannot cast/summon
anything they do not have bonuses for, per the other thread that ran through
the weekend. I do not have SR3 yet, so I cannot be sure exactly what it says
in there, but I think we already settled that particular war/discussion :-)
Message no. 9
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:55:57 +1200
Quoth Michael vanHulst (0658 13-8-98 NZT):

<<SLICE>>
>> Hmmm...hadn't noticed that before, and I know I was told during one
of the
>> seminars' that all Aspected Magicians (Shamanically Oriented ones),
gain
>> their
>> totem bonuses/negatives
>
>They may gaint he negatives of the totem, but I think they cannot
cast/summon
>anything they do not have bonuses for, per the other thread that ran
through
>the weekend. I do not have SR3 yet, so I cannot be sure exactly what it
says
>in there, but I think we already settled that particular war/discussion
:-)

Not wishing to reignite that thread, but I just want to clarify what *I*
understand this to mean (under SR2 _and_ SR3):

Shamanists can only cast spells and summon spirits for which their totem
grants them bonuses.
Sorcerers, Conjurers etc. who follow a shamanic totem can cast *all*
spells or raise *all* spirits (according to their Aspect), but receive
the full weight of all the bonuses *and penalties* of their totem. I
always viewed it that the Shamanic Sorcerer/Conjurer was simply 'half a
shaman', with full access to their particular area (with all totemic
modifiers, both ways), but no talent for the other side of the mojo
business. For example, Raccoon Sorcerers can cast all spells, but get
+2 dice for Manipulation spells, and -1 for Combat spells.

Danyel Woods - 9604801@********.ac.nz
'No, I'm Chaos and he's Mayhem. We're a double act.'
Message no. 10
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:49:52 -0400
Once upon a time, Danyel N Woods wrote;

>Not wishing to reignite that thread, but I just want to clarify what *I*
>understand this to mean (under SR2 _and_ SR3):
>
>Shamanists can only cast spells and summon spirits for which their totem
>grants them bonuses.
>Sorcerers, Conjurers etc. who follow a shamanic totem can cast *all*
>spells or raise *all* spirits (according to their Aspect), but receive
>the full weight of all the bonuses *and penalties* of their totem. I
>always viewed it that the Shamanic Sorcerer/Conjurer was simply 'half a
>shaman', with full access to their particular area (with all totemic
>modifiers, both ways), but no talent for the other side of the mojo
>business. For example, Raccoon Sorcerers can cast all spells, but get
>+2 dice for Manipulation spells, and -1 for Combat spells.

Yes. But I won't be surprised if confusion (misunderstanding really)
over this will still exist in the future. It's just the price we pay to
have these options.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

CRY HAVOC! And let slip the flames of SR3

I am MC23
Message no. 11
From: "RazorGirl ." <chumlikin@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:47:35 PDT
>Not wishing to reignite that thread, but I just want to clarify what
*I*
>understand this to mean (under SR2 _and_ SR3):
>
>Shamanists can only cast spells and summon spirits for which their
totem
>grants them bonuses.
>Sorcerers, Conjurers etc. who follow a shamanic totem can cast *all*
>spells or raise *all* spirits (according to their Aspect), but receive
>the full weight of all the bonuses *and penalties* of their totem. I
>always viewed it that the Shamanic Sorcerer/Conjurer was simply 'half a
>shaman', with full access to their particular area (with all totemic
>modifiers, both ways), but no talent for the other side of the mojo
>business. For example, Raccoon Sorcerers can cast all spells, but get
>+2 dice for Manipulation spells, and -1 for Combat spells.

So the shamanist of racoon would cast Manipulation spells only and
summon their totem spirit. The shamanic specialist (sor/con) can only
cast any spell or summon any spirit but also get totem bonuses. Is there
an elementalist then? Someone who can cast his elements spells and only
summon his elemental? And does the shamanist get totem bonus dice to his
spells? (Racoon shamanist: +2 Manipulation dice). Are there any benefits
for being a shamanic enchanter?

"You came in that thing? You're braver than i thought."
Star Wars was funny on so many levels.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 12
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:59:05 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/98 6:01:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
9604801@********.AC.NZ writes:

> Shamanists can only cast spells and summon spirits for which their totem
> grants them bonuses.
> Sorcerers, Conjurers etc. who follow a shamanic totem can cast *all*
> spells or raise *all* spirits (according to their Aspect), but receive
> the full weight of all the bonuses *and penalties* of their totem. I
> always viewed it that the Shamanic Sorcerer/Conjurer was simply 'half a
> shaman', with full access to their particular area (with all totemic
> modifiers, both ways), but no talent for the other side of the mojo
> business. For example, Raccoon Sorcerers can cast all spells, but get
> +2 dice for Manipulation spells, and -1 for Combat spells.
>
exactly as I understand it, with the addition of totem weaknesses such as
Berserkor or such role-playing weaknesses.
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:57:13 +1000
RazorGirl writes:
> So the shamanist of racoon would cast Manipulation spells only and
> summon their totem spirit. The shamanic specialist (sor/con) can only
> cast any spell or summon any spirit but also get totem bonuses. Is there
> an elementalist then? Someone who can cast his elements spells and only
> summon his elemental?

SR2 at least had this... the elemental adept. I'd imagine that they ported
this into SR3.

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 14
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:24:56 EDT
In a message dated 8/12/1998 11:32:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
chumlikin@*******.com writes:

> So the shamanist of racoon would cast Manipulation spells only and
> summon their totem spirit. The shamanic specialist (sor/con) can only
> cast any spell or summon any spirit but also get totem bonuses. Is there
> an elementalist then? Someone who can cast his elements spells and only
> summon his elemental? And does the shamanist get totem bonus dice to his
> spells? (Racoon shamanist: +2 Manipulation dice). Are there any benefits
> for being a shamanic enchanter?
>
According to the original rules in SR2 (and I believe in SR1), any totem
bonuses that could be worked towards a given enchantment did work
appropriately. I can only imagine this would in most cases along the lines of
+2 Combat, Detection, Forest (Wolf in this instance), meant the bonus went
towards making Combat Foci, Detection Foci, Forest Spirit Foci, Feti
concerning Combat or Detection Spells, and similar materials.

-K
Message no. 15
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:24:03 +0100
And verily, did Robert Watkins hastily scribble thusly...
|SR2 at least had this... the elemental adept. I'd imagine that they ported
|this into SR3.

And if they don't, they'll probably put it in the third grimy thing...
Oops. Sorry. MitS.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 16
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:51:24 EDT
<much verbiage on aspected magicians snipped>

Here's an example of shamanic aspected magicians to (hopefully) clear up any
confusion, using the Dog totem:

* A shamanic sorcerer who follows Dog can use Sorcery to cast any spell and
gains +2 dice with detection spells. He cannot use Conjuring.

* A shamanic conjurer who follows Dog can use Conjuring to summon any spirit
and gains +2 dice with field and hearth spirits. He cannot use Sorcery.

* A shamanist who follows Dog can use Sorcery to cast detection spells (with
+2 dice) but cannot cast other types of spells. He can use Conjuring to summon
field and hearth spirits (again, with +2 dice) but cannot summon other types
of spirits.

All of the above suffer from Dog's various disadvantages.

Hope that helps,
Steve K.
Message no. 17
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:38:17 +0100
And verily, did Steve Kenson hastily scribble thusly...
|* A shamanist who follows Dog can use Sorcery to cast detection spells (with
|+2 dice) but cannot cast other types of spells. He can use Conjuring to summon
|field and hearth spirits (again, with +2 dice) but cannot summon other types
|of spirits.

What about the negative modifiers?
I can't remember if Dog has any, so in the case of a totem with say -2 on
detection, will the Shamanist be able to access detection. (I'd say no
myself)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 18
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:49:01 -0400
On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Spike wrote:

> And verily, did Steve Kenson hastily scribble thusly...
> |* A shamanist who follows Dog can use Sorcery to cast detection spells (with
> |+2 dice) but cannot cast other types of spells. He can use Conjuring to summon
> |field and hearth spirits (again, with +2 dice) but cannot summon other types
> |of spirits.
>
> What about the negative modifiers?
> I can't remember if Dog has any, so in the case of a totem with say -2 on
> detection, will the Shamanist be able to access detection. (I'd say no
> myself.


A Shamanists can ONLY cast spells and summon spirits for which he gets a
totem bonus. If there is a penalty, there isn't a bonus. Thus, the
Shamanist cannot cast that spell.

The totem negatives on casting certain types of spells would only apply to
the Shamanistic Conjurer who can cast all types of spells.

- Kama
Message no. 19
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 17:13:17 +0100
And verily, did Kama hastily scribble thusly...
|A Shamanists can ONLY cast spells and summon spirits for which he gets a
|totem bonus. If there is a penalty, there isn't a bonus. Thus, the
|Shamanist cannot cast that spell.

Glad that's been sorted out then...

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 20
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:15:53 -0400
Once upon a time, Kama wrote;

>A Shamanists can ONLY cast spells and summon spirits for which he gets a
>totem bonus. If there is a penalty, there isn't a bonus. Thus, the
>Shamanist cannot cast that spell.

The negatives that do apply are things like Dog's loyalty or Bear's
berserk, IIRC.

>The totem negatives on casting certain types of spells would only apply to
>the Shamanistic Conjurer who can cast all types of spells.

Sorcerers casts spells, conjurers summon spirits.

-MC23, who is being picky, picky, picky-
Message no. 21
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 13:23:09 -0400
On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, MC23 wrote:

> Once upon a time, Kama wrote;
>
> >A Shamanists can ONLY cast spells and summon spirits for which he gets a
> >totem bonus. If there is a penalty, there isn't a bonus. Thus, the
> >Shamanist cannot cast that spell.
>
> The negatives that do apply are things like Dog's loyalty or Bear's
> berserk, IIRC.
>
> >The totem negatives on casting certain types of spells would only apply to
> >the Shamanistic Conjurer who can cast all types of spells.
>
> Sorcerers casts spells, conjurers summon spirits.
>
> -MC23, who is being picky, picky, picky-
>

Mea Culpa! That is what I get for trying to type my reply while answering
a customer's phone call . . . I did mean Sorcerer, my apologies.
- Kama
Message no. 22
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Aspected Magicians
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:39:13 EDT
Spike wrote:
>What about the negative modifiers?
>I can't remember if Dog has any, so in the case of a totem with say -2 on
>detection, will the Shamanist be able to access detection. (I'd say no
>myself)

You are correct. Shamanists only gain access to the spells/spirits their totem
gives them a BONUS for.

Steve

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about [SR3] Aspected Magicians, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!