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Message no. 1
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 12:44:52 -0600
At 18:41 7/4/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> Caric throws his Mana Missile at Force 4, adding in 4 dice from his Magic
>> Pool. He rolls 8 dice against TN 6 (NightLife's Will). He gets 1 success.
>>
>> Steve
>
>Just one thing: Caric would be veeeeery stupid if he had learnt the
>spell at level 4. Why not at level 6? costs just 2 spell points
>more, while it makes the spell really deadly. This was a problem in
>my group: every single combat spell was at level 6, and there was no

This is my biggest pet peeve, and I'm in the middle of writing an article
about it for TSS. Characters will 4 or 5 skills/spells at 6, and nothing
lower. I know that everyone wants to make a character that is going to
survive a few encounters, and I can respect that. However, some people
have the attitude that 'If its not useful in extremely obvious ways, its
useless'. The street sammy with Firearms, Street Eti, Stealth, and Armed
Combat, all at 6, and nothing else. Is he so good at all of that, and so
bad at everything else that it doesn't rate?
A real human, most of us, have a TON of skills, too many to fit in any game
description, and all at varying levels. While most of us have several that
shine, we have alot that don't, but still are useful once in awhile. How
come most Shadowrun characters don't?

Well, this has nothing to do with third edition, but :)

-Aj

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
Message no. 2
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 14:48:02 -0500
You wrote:
> This is my biggest pet peeve, and I'm in the middle of writing an article
> about it for TSS. Characters will 4 or 5 skills/spells at 6, and nothing
> lower. I know that everyone wants to make a character that is going to
> survive a few encounters, and I can respect that. However, some people
> have the attitude that 'If its not useful in extremely obvious ways, its
> useless'. The street sammy with Firearms, Street Eti, Stealth, and Armed
> Combat, all at 6, and nothing else. Is he so good at all of that, and so
> bad at everything else that it doesn't rate?
> A real human, most of us, have a TON of skills, too many to fit in any game
> description, and all at varying levels. While most of us have several that
> shine, we have alot that don't, but still are useful once in awhile. How
> come most Shadowrun characters don't?

I agree to some extent, those that take all their combat spells at Force 6 and
their invis and such at 2's, and always stack up a bunch of force modifiers, ad
nauseum, annoy me. Fortunately I haven't played with too many of them. Most
char's I've seen do prioritize their skills, ranging from some 6's to some 2's
or 3's, have even seen char's take a 1 because they were 'just learning'.
People who do the 4 skills at a 6 thing should be playing BattleTech(TM) and
leave roleplaying to people who want to actually do it.

OTOH, regarding Willpower, I figure most runners need to have a decent amount
of guts and gumption, and I figure that means a mid-to-high willpower (4-6
range). Taking the risks they do isn't easy or comfortable. And most of the
char's I've created were of the fairly bitter or sinister variety, and so a
decent willpower rating suited them. The first SR sammie I saw created
was a guy name of Demon Soulstone, made by my friend Ben, and he had a Body and
a Willpower of 6 each. Demon was in his 40's, and had been kicked around and
chewed on by life, scarred emotionally and physically, he was tough. Those two
attributes defined the character, and it was great to see him play that 'I've
been through drek like this before, hand me that grenade launcher, I'll teach
them to take hostages' bit. Of course, this comes down to the character that's
being played, but a high willpower is often appropriate role-wise. However,
when folks do it just to give the mage a high T#, they should just be drawn and
quartered...

losthalo, waxing nostalgic
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:21:46 +0100
|>Just one thing: Caric would be veeeeery stupid if he had learnt the
|>spell at level 4. Why not at level 6? costs just 2 spell points
|>more, while it makes the spell really deadly. This was a problem in
|>my group: every single combat spell was at level 6, and there was no
|
|This is my biggest pet peeve, and I'm in the middle of writing an article
|about it for TSS. Characters will 4 or 5 skills/spells at 6, and nothing
|lower.

I don't blame you. My personal rule on buying spells is 4 or 5 for a few
combat spells, 1 for health spells, and 2 or 3 for various others.

The only spells I'd go the full six on are threshold spells, like control
thoughts or control actions....

I like having a lot of different spells, as opposed to being BAMBAM.....
:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 4
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:00:45 +0100
> This is my biggest pet peeve, and I'm in the middle of writing an article
> about it for TSS. Characters will 4 or 5 skills/spells at 6, and nothing
> lower.

the reason for combat spells exclusively at level 6 is obvious...
since their level is the target number for defending against them...
So there is absolutely nothing that could be done about it...
wait..
Maybe setting the maximum rating for attributes, spells and skills
to level 5 instead of 6... But I guess that would be too complicated,
and a too radical change...

> I know that everyone wants to make a character that is going to
> survive a few encounters, and I can respect that. However, some people
> have the attitude that 'If its not useful in extremely obvious ways, its
> useless'. The street sammy with Firearms, Street Eti, Stealth, and Armed
> Combat, all at 6, and nothing else. Is he so good at all of that, and so
> bad at everything else that it doesn't rate?

> -Aj

Hmm.. I see no reason to have skills only at level 6 since they don't
influence a target number... Sure, you'll save a bit karma if you
start with level 6 skills and learn the ones at lower level later,
but I always thought I was the only one who had noticed...

ss
Message no. 5
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:16:39 +0100
Spike said:

> I don't blame you. My personal rule on buying spells is 4 or 5 for a few
> combat spells, 1 for health spells, and 2 or 3 for various others.
>
> The only spells I'd go the full six on are threshold spells, like control
> thoughts or control actions....
>
> I like having a lot of different spells, as opposed to being BAMBAM.....

Then you are one of the rare exceptions. The character you describe
would be considerably less powerful than one with spells at level 6.
if you don't mind, fine. But most players do.

ss
Message no. 6
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:47:23 -0600
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| Spike said:
|
| > I don't blame you. My personal rule on buying spells is 4 or 5 for a few
| > combat spells, 1 for health spells, and 2 or 3 for various others.
| >
| > The only spells I'd go the full six on are threshold spells, like control
| > thoughts or control actions....
| >
| > I like having a lot of different spells, as opposed to being BAMBAM.....
|
| Then you are one of the rare exceptions. The character you describe
| would be considerably less powerful than one with spells at level 6.
| if you don't mind, fine. But most players do.

It seems to be a carry over from AD$D (at least for us old farts :).
In AD$D every mage had Magic Missile, Fireball and Lightning Bolt.
And because everything was a dungeon crawl those where must have
spells. Even if your character had noncombat spells, he never
memorized them. They just took up space in his spellbook.
(Disclaimer: most AD$D campaigns, but not all.)

So you switch to Shadowrun and take ManaMissile and Fireball out of
habit, not realizing that the difference between AD$D and Shadowrun
is that Shadowrun is designed to be a Roleplaying game :) It takes a
little while to figure that out (in general).

And I blame GMs too for running combat intensive games (unless you
and your group like that, than more power to you). If you want to
fix the problem than force the issue at character creation with a
house rule, or run a campaign that requires a depth of skills.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
Yoink! - The sound of a crescent roll being stolen.
Message no. 7
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:12:51 -0500
You wrote:
> > I don't blame you. My personal rule on buying spells is 4 or 5 for a few
> > combat spells, 1 for health spells, and 2 or 3 for various others.
> >
> > The only spells I'd go the full six on are threshold spells, like control
> > thoughts or control actions....
> >
> > I like having a lot of different spells, as opposed to being BAMBAM.....

> Then you are one of the rare exceptions. The character you describe
> would be considerably less powerful than one with spells at level 6.
> if you don't mind, fine. But most players do.

I usually prioritize my spells, a few at 5-6, and the rest at 4's or less, to
try to get enough variety. But we usually only have one magician in the party
and so I don't have any magical 'backup'. Usually one of the combat spells is
a 6, with an area-effect backup at 4, and one of the more utility spells is
also a 5-6, the rest at lower levels depending on what force I think I need for
the character. This is also what I've seen every other SR gamer I've played
with do, but I've had the luck of not playing with too many munchkins.

losthalo
Message no. 8
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:40:44 +0100
> I usually prioritize my spells, a few at 5-6, and the rest at 4's or less, to
> try to get enough variety. But we usually only have one magician in the party
> and so I don't have any magical 'backup'. Usually one of the combat spells is
> a 6, with an area-effect backup at 4, and one of the more utility spells is
> also a 5-6, the rest at lower levels depending on what force I think I need for
> the character. This is also what I've seen every other SR gamer I've played
> with do, but I've had the luck of not playing with too many munchkins.
>
> losthalo

There is a bid difference between someone who uses the more effective
way and a munchkin.
Choose one spell less and increase the efficiency of 5 others by
100%. Thats not munchkinous, that's common sense.
(of course, this only counts for resisted spells... Not only combat
spells)

ss (who defends his players ;)
Message no. 9
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:43:45 EST
> I usually prioritize my spells, a few at 5-6, and the rest at 4's or
> less, to try to get enough variety. But we usually only have one
> magician in the party and so I don't have any magical 'backup'.
> Usually one of the combat spells is a 6, with an area-effect backup
> at 4, and one of the more utility spells is also a 5-6, the rest at
> lower levels depending on what force I think I need for the
> character. This is also what I've seen every other SR gamer I've
> played with do, but I've had the luck of not playing with too many
> munchkins.

I border on Munchie with my spells....I usually have one At
6....Manabolt or StunBolt. Maybe two at 4....Compel Truth, Mind
Probe..
All the rest are 1's, and I take a LOT of them. My shamans aren't
combat oriented....and If I do get into combat, I'm more likely to
use Levitate Person, or Magic fingers.

the True power of the Magician lies not in a few high force spells,
but in the endless versatility they provide.
Message no. 10
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:46:13 +0100
> And I blame GMs too for running combat intensive games (unless you
> and your group like that, than more power to you). If you want to
> fix the problem than force the issue at character creation with a
> house rule, or run a campaign that requires a depth of skills.
>
> -David

If your mage has no spells that can be resisted, than every level
from 1-6 is ok. If your mage has even one resisted spell, than it
would be a unnecessary loss of effectivity if he had him at any level
but 6.
Accuse me of munchkinism all you want, to me this is just common
sense.

ss
Message no. 11
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:32:34 -0500
You wrote:
> If your mage has no spells that can be resisted, than every level
> from 1-6 is ok. If your mage has even one resisted spell, than it
> would be a unnecessary loss of effectivity if he had him at any level
> but 6.
> Accuse me of munchkinism all you want, to me this is just common
> sense.

Unless, of course, those points would help you more somewhere else (i.e. you
can get enough out of a force 4 fireball...). I've tended to take only one or
two spells at a force of 6, if that. But I'm also using some force points to
pay for a focus, so I'm a little shy on points for what I want, usually. And
sometimes the high-force spells are the Invisibility and Physical Mask, to make
them hard to see through... I'm not accusing you of munchkinism, though it may
be the case, just of giving a sweeping generalization that is really untrue.

losthalo
Message no. 12
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:59:17 -0600
At 15:00 7/7/97 +0100, you wrote:
>> This is my biggest pet peeve, and I'm in the middle of writing an article
>> about it for TSS. Characters will 4 or 5 skills/spells at 6, and nothing
>> lower.
>
>the reason for combat spells exclusively at level 6 is obvious...
>since their level is the target number for defending against them...
>So there is absolutely nothing that could be done about it...
>wait..

The reason is obvious. To create a munchy character that can 'win' the
game alot easier. I've said this several times recently; A 'real' person
wouldn't and doesn't have several skills/spells at a high rating, they
would have more at various ratings. We are representing a real living
human being in this game, aren't we? Or is 'he' merely a sheet with some
high numbers on it to make the dice rolls easier?

>Hmm.. I see no reason to have skills only at level 6 since they don't
>influence a target number... Sure, you'll save a bit karma if you
>start with level 6 skills and learn the ones at lower level later,
>but I always thought I was the only one who had noticed...

Its cheaper to take skills at '6' during chargen, but its alot cheaper to
raise a couple skills from 3 --> 4 --> 5 than it is to start at 0 and work
your way up.

I'm working on some alternate chargen rules to encourage diversity in
skills. Stay tuned :)

-Aj


--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
-
"Can I have a cup of angst to go with my un-happy meal?" -- Hi & Lois
Message no. 13
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:19:00 +0100
David Buehrer said on 7:47/ 7 Jul 97...

> So you switch to Shadowrun and take ManaMissile and Fireball out of
> habit, not realizing that the difference between AD$D and Shadowrun
> is that Shadowrun is designed to be a Roleplaying game :) It takes a
> little while to figure that out (in general).

I'll second that. At first the majority of the SR adventures I designed
were really heavy on combat, but the more recent ones have involved less
and less firefights. Thinking now of the Elvis adventure that's still
fresh in my memory, I was almost tempted not to have the shoot-out with
the killer at the end, since one of the players remarked that they'd just
done a whole adventure without firing a shot and had a great time...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Two words: therapy.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:25:49 GMT
Spike writes

> I don't blame you. My personal rule on buying spells is 4 or 5 for a few
> combat spells, 1 for health spells, and 2 or 3 for various others.
>
> The only spells I'd go the full six on are threshold spells, like control
> thoughts or control actions....
>
> I like having a lot of different spells, as opposed to being BAMBAM.....
> :)
Likewise

Though one of the reasons i like stun is force 6 for 2's for drain.
Some utility spells are needed above force 1, treat and mask spells
spring to mind. Treat because even at TN2 you can need 10-12 dice to
get someone back from a couple of assault rifle bursts and for the
sammies every dice helps! And very few starting magicians can throw
more than about 6-8 extra dice into spells (including power foci).
Mask Spells, again their TN = your successes so you need LOTS of
dice. There is a lot of use for force 1 utilities though, eg makeover
and fashion :)

Mark
Message no. 15
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:17:44 +0100
> The reason is obvious. To create a munchy character that can 'win' the
> game alot easier. I've said this several times recently; A 'real' person
> wouldn't and doesn't have several skills/spells at a high rating, they
> would have more at various ratings. We are representing a real living
> human being in this game, aren't we? Or is 'he' merely a sheet with some
> high numbers on it to make the dice rolls easier?

Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.

> Its cheaper to take skills at '6' during chargen, but its alot cheaper to
> raise a couple skills from 3 --> 4 --> 5 than it is to start at 0 and work
> your way up.

If you want to save karma during game, take as many skills as
possible at level 6 during chargen.

> I'm working on some alternate chargen rules to encourage diversity in
> skills. Stay tuned :)
> -Aj

We will... just let us know then..

ss
Message no. 16
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:26:48 +0100
> Unless, of course, those points would help you more somewhere else (i.e. you
> can get enough out of a force 4 fireball...). I've tended to take only one or
> two spells at a force of 6, if that. But I'm also using some force points to
> pay for a focus, so I'm a little shy on points for what I want, usually. And
> sometimes the high-force spells are the Invisibility and Physical Mask, to make
> them hard to see through... I'm not accusing you of munchkinism, though it may
> be the case, just of giving a sweeping generalization that is really untrue.
> losthalo

The force gain from 4-6 for combat spells is the most effective force
gain you will ever find. Not only inceases it the number of your
dice, but also decreases the opponents number of successes by nearly
70%. If you augment the invisibility spell instead, you'll only get
more dice to roll.

ss (as always: IMHO, no offense intended, and sorry for the
bad english... ;-)
Message no. 17
From: Clen Cook <Clen@******.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:33:39 +0200
Simon wrote :

>Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
>living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
>And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
>and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
>level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.

I agree - if you have seen the movie - "The Professional", it's about
an assassin who's the best at his job - but is lacking in social
skills. Some characters/people are trained to kill, or do their jobs to
the exclusion of all else.

Clen
Message no. 18
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:01:20 +0100
> I agree - if you have seen the movie - "The Professional", it's about
> an assassin who's the best at his job - but is lacking in social
> skills. Some characters/people are trained to kill, or do their jobs to
> the exclusion of all else.
> Clen

And that's how I see shadowrunners... Highly able specialists with an
extremely tough job... They do what no one else can do, risk their
lifes during every job... And earn big nuyen for it...
I _hate_ the Dirk-Montgomery-shadowrunner-image. (no, I don't hate
the novels... just the attitude that Montgomery is the typical
shadowrunner...)

ss
Message no. 19
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:34:23 -0500
You wrote:
> Well, of course the numbers represent a living person... but not a
> living person like me and you... Shadowrunners are different.
> And there are samurais who have learnt nothing but how to kill
> and fight effectively. A samurai withOUT a couple of combat skills at
> level 6 is no real samurai, IMHO.
Oh, they have to be at a 6, huh? 5's not good enough (look at the Street Sam
archetype, Firearms 5).

> If you want to save karma during game, take as many skills as
> possible at level 6 during chargen.
Yep. *Munch* *munch* *munch*.

losthalo
Message no. 20
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:10:48 EST
> And that's how I see shadowrunners... Highly able specialists with
> an extremely tough job... They do what no one else can do, risk
> their lifes during every job... And earn big nuyen for it... I
> _hate_ the Dirk-Montgomery-shadowrunner-image. (no, I don't hate the
> novels... just the attitude that Montgomery is the typical
> shadowrunner...)

Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
shadowrunners.

_BUT_ I usually have my runners start as only a little more
experienced than Dirk.....and hoping to become like
Argent..(Every "Real" runner is a newbie at some point.)...It's just
a style thing. I used to have them be the macho pros, but I had two
problems:

1) They couldn't play it.
2) They didn't have anything to improve.

So I revamped it. Usually (varies with specific character, natch)
they end up seeking something (fame, money, etc) and trying to get by
becoming better runners. Balance this with some social situations,
and you get some very good running. The characters can build
themselves to be the best, but don't start there. If they start
there, they have nowhere to go but down.

-=SwiftOne=-

P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
changling.
Message no. 21
From: "Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:53:58 -0500
You wrote:
> Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
> edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
> shadowrunners.
Well, actually, he's more of just a private detective than anything.

> 1) They couldn't play it.
> 2) They didn't have anything to improve.
This allepends on how your characters want to improve, and what sort of
characters they want to play at the start. My players usually want fairly
experienced characters, not newbies, and can usually play them. Usually they
are either more intent on staying alive and keeping things going or expanding
their abilities outward (not upward). This is true of sammies, mages, and
non-traditional types.

> So I revamped it. Usually (varies with specific character, natch)
> they end up seeking something (fame, money, etc) and trying to get by
> becoming better runners.
Mine tend to play out the stories of their lives (meeting old enemies again,
making new friends, enemies, etc., and occasionally screwing up bigtime and
getting into hot water). Their increases are incidental, usually by
opportunity, as they spend much of their time making a living and hiding from
the 'list' of problems and enemies.

Balance this with some social situations,
> and you get some very good running. The characters can build
> themselves to be the best, but don't start there. If they start
> there, they have nowhere to go but down.
Only in stats, though. What happens when those characters change their
motivations (decide to go on a crusade to help X individuals or just decide to
learn magic theory for the frag of it)? Those powerful char's can still grow
in other ways through play that are very fun and rewarding.

losthalo
Message no. 22
From: "Simon T. Sailer" <Simon.Sailer@****.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:08:16 +0100
> Heck, in the book, Dirk himself admits that he's just a lurker at the
> edges...he's pretty overwhelmed by Argent and the other "real"
> shadowrunners.

Some people on the list seem to have this certain point of view...
Shadowrunners are just street-junk, unable to get a normal job for
whatever reasons... And I wanted to say that I do not share this
view. On the contrary, I see runners much more like special forces
troopers...
Somebody mentioned that dirk were his favorite runner... And my point
was to express that dirk is NO runner.

> P.S. 2XS one of my favorite...probably second favorite after
> changling.

Mine too... the book is very good...

ss
Message no. 23
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Combat Spells -- Level 6?
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 03:44:44 -0600
At 09:08 7/14/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Somebody mentioned that dirk were his favorite runner... And my point
>was to express that dirk is NO runner.

Nobody said he was. Nobody said Shadowrun had to be just about
shadowrunners, either.

-Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ WildAngle@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
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