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Message no. 1
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:15:34 +1000
I vaguely remember some thread from a while back about whether or not
cyberware and bioware intelligence-boosting implants affected the number of
points of Knowledge Skills the character started the game with - if
purchased at character creation. This, I think is on a somewhat similar
topic (though I might be wrong).

Do the cyberware or bioware attribute boosts reduce the Karma Cost (and
starting point costs) for higher Skill Ratings? I can't seem to find
anything in SR3 that says they don't, but then again, I can't find anything
that says they do. If someone can point me to a relevant page, piece of
errata, or whatever, I'd be grateful.

Additionally, on a similar vein, how do you all think Linked Attribues
will work when the character has a cybertorso and four cyberlimbs? How do
you think they'd work when the character was using Strength-Linked Skills
with different Strength ratings in different limbs?

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 2
From: Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:29:33 -0700
> From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>

> I vaguely remember some thread from a while back about whether or not
> cyberware and bioware intelligence-boosting implants affected the number
of
> points of Knowledge Skills the character started the game with - if
> purchased at character creation. This, I think is on a somewhat similar
> topic (though I might be wrong).
>
> Do the cyberware or bioware attribute boosts reduce the Karma Cost (and
> starting point costs) for higher Skill Ratings? I can't seem to find
> anything in SR3 that says they don't, but then again, I can't find
anything
> that says they do. If someone can point me to a relevant page, piece of
> errata, or whatever, I'd be grateful.

Basically it is my understanding that in the grand scheme of character
generation attributes and skills are determined before any gear, including
cyberware, is purchased. Therefore the bonuses from cyber/bioware would
not effect either skill cost, or knowledge skill points. For game balance
as well as absurdity it makes much more sense. If you allow cyber to
effect skills at generation you would have to allow the mages and physads
to count magical bonuses as well. "I bought this sustaining focus and paid
the spell points to bond increased (attribute) to it so I should get the
bonuses that Sam got with his cyber too."

> Additionally, on a similar vein, how do you all think Linked Attribues
> will work when the character has a cybertorso and four cyberlimbs? How
do
> you think they'd work when the character was using Strength-Linked Skills
> with different Strength ratings in different limbs?

Again AFAIK in the rare cases that it would matter you average out the
strength in all the limbs to figure out the strength, unless just one limb
is being used. (ie: hanging from a cliff by one's cyberarm or using your
unarmed combat specialization in kicks to boot an opponent.)

Caric
Message no. 3
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:55:13 -0700
: Do the cyberware or bioware attribute boosts reduce the Karma Cost (and
:starting point costs) for higher Skill Ratings? I can't seem to find
:anything in SR3 that says they don't, but then again, I can't find
anything
:that says they do. If someone can point me to a relevant page, piece of
:errata, or whatever, I'd be grateful.

BY SR3, they don't becuase you buy starting skills before starting
gear (including spells).

: Additionally, on a similar vein, how do you all think Linked Attribues
:will work when the character has a cybertorso and four cyberlimbs? How
do
:you think they'd work when the character was using Strength-Linked Skills
:with different Strength ratings in different limbs?

From SR3 errata, as mailed to the list:

<quote>
Page 244: Improving Skills
In the second sentence, add the word "natural" before the phrase
"Attribute Rating."
</quote>

IE- NO, cyberware does not affect the cost of skills, even if you buy (x)
wussy Cyberlimbs for a beefed out troll, or (x) beefed out limb(s) for a
wussy human, they still use their natural stats as far as skill costs go.
Perhaps not logical, but that is SOTA until MaM comes out. Hopefully
that will have some better rules re cyber and skill costs; especially with
full body replacements, you'd need them.

Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:44:08 +1000
>>From SR3 errata, as mailed to the list:
>
><quote>
>Page 244: Improving Skills
> In the second sentence, add the word "natural" before the phrase
>"Attribute Rating."
></quote>

Doh. Maybe I should've bothered reading what I posted to my website - or
checking the printout I did. ( =}

>IE- NO, cyberware does not affect the cost of skills, even if you buy (x)
>wussy Cyberlimbs for a beefed out troll, or (x) beefed out limb(s) for a
>wussy human, they still use their natural stats as far as skill costs go.
> Perhaps not logical, but that is SOTA until MaM comes out. Hopefully
>that will have some better rules re cyber and skill costs; especially with
>full body replacements, you'd need them.

I have one word for you Mongoose old chum: Anthroforms. You _know_ what
I'm talking about. =)

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 5
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:56:26 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 08:55 AM 10/4/98 -0700, Mongoose wrote:
> BY SR3, they don't becuase you buy starting skills before
starting
>gear (including spells).

However, after you buy gear, but before you move on to finishing
touches, you're allowed to revisit the previous steps, and change
numbers around. SR3 chargen is not a strictly linear process, because
it has this iterative step. Everyone seems to forget this last little
bit of chargen. :)

Not that I'm promoting the use of Cybered Attributes for calculating
the chargen cost of buying linked skills. Far from it. It's just that
I don't think the statement "you're done skill buying before you buy
your first piece of cyberware gear" is a valid arguement against it.
There are other valid points that can be brought up against it, and
just tossing up this statement each time the question comes up will
only serve to entrench the misconception that SR3 chargen is entirely
a linear process.

I'm not trying to flame anyone here, it's just that I don't like to
see people give the wrong reason against something that everyone
should be against. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 6
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Cyberware and Linked Attributes
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:17:07 -0400
On Sun, 4 Oct 1998, Mongoose wrote:

->: Do the cyberware or bioware attribute boosts reduce the Karma Cost (and
->:starting point costs) for higher Skill Ratings? I can't seem to find
->:anything in SR3 that says they don't, but then again, I can't find
->anything
->:that says they do. If someone can point me to a relevant page, piece of
->:errata, or whatever, I'd be grateful.
<snip>
->>From SR3 errata, as mailed to the list:
->
-><quote>
->Page 244: Improving Skills
-> In the second sentence, add the word "natural" before the phrase
->"Attribute Rating."
-></quote>

Waidaminit! So, all those physads (I shall continue to call them
that instead of adepts, as a sign of my being grandfathered in from SR1 &
SR2) with improved attributes do get their 'adjusted' scores for
determining their Karma costs for increasing skills.... I knew I liked
Physads for a reason... ]:-)

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

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Thwap!