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Message no. 1
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:22:29 -0400
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When Boosted Reflexes cyberware first apeared in the Street Samurai
Catalog, it was explictly stated in the rules that "Boosted Reflexes
cannot be upgraded."

The entry for Boosted Reflexes on p. 300 of the 3rd. Ed. rulebook
makes no such explicit statement. It does say, "...nor can boosted
reflexes be removed at a later date. The treatment is permanent," but
this may or may not be interpreted as "cannot be upgraded." Is this a
rules change (Boosted reflexes can be upgraded under SR3), or merely
an omission and/or ambiguously worded entry?


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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 2
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:13:35 -0700
> The entry for Boosted Reflexes on p. 300 of the 3rd. Ed. rulebook
> makes no such explicit statement. It does say, "...nor can boosted
> reflexes be removed at a later date. The treatment is permanent," but
> this may or may not be interpreted as "cannot be upgraded." Is this a
> rules change (Boosted reflexes can be upgraded under SR3), or merely
> an omission and/or ambiguously worded entry?

Keep in mind also that SR3 also says that is doesn't render any
previous products obsolete..So..The original statement taken from SSC
should still stand..
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 3
From: Adam J <adamj@*********.HTML.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:40:37 -0600
At 22:13 10/1/98 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>> The entry for Boosted Reflexes on p. 300 of the 3rd. Ed. rulebook
>> makes no such explicit statement. It does say, "...nor can boosted
>> reflexes be removed at a later date. The treatment is permanent," but
>> this may or may not be interpreted as "cannot be upgraded." Is this a
>> rules change (Boosted reflexes can be upgraded under SR3), or merely
>> an omission and/or ambiguously worded entry?
>
>Keep in mind also that SR3 also says that is doesn't render any
>previous products obsolete..So..The original statement taken from SSC
>should still stand..

If you have to dig in past products for Every teeny ruling like that, then
they may as well just have left out all the gear in SR3 and just given you
pointers to pages in previously released books :P

Let's hope Man and Machine clears this one up, although IMO since Boosted
Reflexes is a chemical treatment, it can't be upgraded.

-Adam J
Message no. 4
From: "Adams, Kevin" <KAdams@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:19:07 -0400
> >Keep in mind also that SR3 also says that is doesn't render any
> >previous products obsolete..So..The original statement taken from SSC
> >should still stand..
>

If I'm not mistaken I believe that somewhere in the SR3 book its states that
in the event of a contradiction between editions, SR3 rules are the ones to
go with.

-K-
Message no. 5
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:06:23 -0400
On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 10:13:35PM -0700, GRANITE wrote:
> Keep in mind also that SR3 also says that is doesn't render any
> previous products obsolete..So..The original statement taken from SSC
> should still stand..

In that case (to borrow an example from another thread), since
SR3 doesn't SAY you can't intercept spells, just implies it, the SR2
rules still apply.
Hmmm. Noooooo, I don't think that'll work. I'd be inclined to wait
and see what Man & Machine says, but for now, possibly allow Boosted Reflexes
to be upgraded...unless 'permanent' implies 'can't be changed', which is
a valid argument.

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 6
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:09:27 -0400
On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 10:40:37PM -0600, Adam J wrote:
> Let's hope Man and Machine clears this one up, although IMO since Boosted
> Reflexes is a chemical treatment, it can't be upgraded.

Although, I can see an argument in the other direction. Boosted
level 1 is a small dose of the treatment. You can't UNDO it, but is there
really a logical reason why you couldn't administer a second dose,
bringing the patient up to Boosted level 2, or 3? It depends on what the
treatment is actually doing, and it doesn't really say :(

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 7
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:29:21 -0400
On 2 Oct 98, at 10:09, Sean McCrohan wrote:

> Although, I can see an argument in the other direction. Boosted
> level 1 is a small dose of the treatment. You can't UNDO it, but is there
> really a logical reason why you couldn't administer a second dose,
> bringing the patient up to Boosted level 2, or 3? It depends on what the
> treatment is actually doing, and it doesn't really say :(

This is the way I've always played it. You can upgrade Boosted
Reflexes, but you cannot remove them.

--

=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - |"Letter writing is the only
- drekhead@***.net - | device for combining
HTML to: drekhead@********.net | solitude and good company."
ICQ - UIN 2883757 | -Lord Byron
Message no. 8
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:37:06 +1000
Hmmm... I think you could probably get rid of Boosted Reflexes if you
had the cash available. Since Boosted Reflexes are a "one-time
electrochemical treatment", wouldn't something like Gene Therapy which "can
also be applied to repair body-wide cellular damage resulting from disease
or toxin reaction" (eg. the effects of Boosted) be effective? Just a
thought, of course, but if they can use it to correct genetic defects why
not something as trivial as an electrochemical treatment. Not that you'd
get the Essence back in any case - except maybe as an open slot for
installing new cyberware.

- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

ARKHAM'S ASYLUM ( http://www.asgard.net.au/~zzdeden/shadowrun/ )
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:49:16 -0400
At 10:22 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:

>The entry for Boosted Reflexes on p. 300 of the 3rd. Ed. rulebook
>makes no such explicit statement. It does say, "...nor can boosted
>reflexes be removed at a later date. The treatment is permanent," but
>this may or may not be interpreted as "cannot be upgraded." Is this a
>rules change (Boosted reflexes can be upgraded under SR3), or merely
>an omission and/or ambiguously worded entry?

Well, if you want to get pedantic about the exact phrasing, I think one
could easily state that since the treatment is permanent, it therefor
cannot be altered. And therefor, Boosted Reflexes cannot be upgraded.

That's how I intend to read that passage anyway.

But I will agree, I harped on FASA while playtesting SR3 to make things
"idiot-proof" when something like this came up. You know, spell things out
blatantly; you can only do these things, nothing else. You cannot do this
or this ever. That sort of thing.

You know, the way FASA phrases things sometimes I wonder if they aren't
just waiting for someone to write and publish "Shadowrun for Dummies."

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 10
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:01:58 -0400
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At 10:13 PM 10/1/98 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>Keep in mind also that SR3 also says that is doesn't render any
>previous products obsolete..So..The original statement taken from SSC
>should still stand..

BBB3, p. 324
"Shadowrun, Third Edition includes numerous clarifications and minor
changes that have an impact on a wide range of sourcebook material. If
a conflict exists between the rules printed in a published sourcebook
and information covering the same topic in SR3, use the SR3 rules."

Boosted Reflexes are covered in both SSC and again in the BBB3, with a
small possible conflict on whether or not they can be upgraded. The
above quoted guideline recomends giving the third edition rules
precedence over the previously published sourcebook.

The errata request is merely an attemt to check if FASA intended this
as a rules change or not. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 11
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:11:36 -0400
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At 12:49 PM 10/2/98 -0400, Erik J. wrote:
>Well, if you want to get pedantic about the exact phrasing, I think
one
>could easily state that since the treatment is permanent, it therefor
>cannot be altered. And therefor, Boosted Reflexes cannot be
upgraded.
>
>That's how I intend to read that passage anyway.

Same here, until FASA gives offical word on it.

Still, players might attempt to aruge "Oh, I know that that Boosted 1
that I took a while back is permanent, there's no removing it. That's
not what I'm asking the street doc to do though. I want him to give me
the Boosted 3 treatment on top/alongside of the Boosted 1. I have the
essence left to pay for it."

At which point, I would have to pick up my three editions of SR
hardbacks, and brain the player with them. (Now if FASA adds "Boosted
Reflexes cannot be upgraded." to the errata, I won't have to resort to
violence.)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Errata: p.300 Boosted Reflexes [attn: Rob Boyle]
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:34:55 -0400
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At 10:29 AM 10/2/98 -0400, Tim wrote:
>> Although, I can see an argument in the other direction.
Boosted
>> level 1 is a small dose of the treatment. You can't UNDO it, but is
there
>> really a logical reason why you couldn't administer a second dose,
>> bringing the patient up to Boosted level 2, or 3? It depends on
what the
>> treatment is actually doing, and it doesn't really say :(
>
>This is the way I've always played it. You can upgrade Boosted
>Reflexes, but you cannot remove them.

I guess now we're getting into the definition of "Cannot Be Upgraded".

Does it merely mean

"a person taking Boosted Reflexes at a certain level will never be
able to have a higher level of Boosted Reflexes at a later date"

or does it mean

"because Boosted Reflexes are a non-removable chemical treatment, the
usual procedure for 'upgrading' cyberware, where the previous
instalation is removed, freeing up an empty essence slot that the
higher level instalation may be put into, may not be used for Boosted
Reflexes."

It could be argued both ways. I use the former, which was why I felt
the need for a clarification under SR3. For GMs who use the second
definition, I don't think SR3 changes anything.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

Further Reading

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