Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Rich Willoughby <rwilloug@********.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:02:21 -0400
A player of mine has asked for a couple of custom pieces of gear. I can't
find anything similar to either of them in any of my books, and since I'm a
relatively inexperienced GM, I was hoping to get some opinions from the list
on how they would work so I don't end giving him anything to outrageous.

1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
I presume that for game balance, you couldn't totally mask the wearer's IR
signiture. It would probably just reduce the effectiveness of any kind of
IR sensor or sight.

2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how this
would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making it
easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it most
likely work through?

Any insight that could be provided would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Rich

--
Rich Willoughby
"Logical irrationality in its purest form."
rwilloug@********.com
http://www.servtech.com/~rwilloug/
Message no. 2
From: Lars Ericson <lericson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:13:19 -0500
Rich Willoughby wrote:
> 1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
> I presume that for game balance, you couldn't totally mask the wearer's IR
> signiture. It would probably just reduce the effectiveness of any kind of
> IR sensor or sight.

Seems reasonable to me. For special equipment like this I require
players to have appropriate backgrounds and/or contacts to start the
game with it. If this is in the game then I'd make it high availability
(~10). It probably have the following features:

- Increase thermal signature for vehicle sensor attacks by +2
- Provide an additional +2 vision penalty for people using thermo in
combat
- +2 on perception rolls for people relying on thermo in darkness for
detection purposes

Sounds like a custom thing, so the cost should reflect that.

> 2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how this
> would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
> offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making it
> easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it most
> likely work through?

Something like this either is manufactured by a company or not. A street
doc can't hobble together an internal headware computer. I'd say that a
Targeting Computer basically does this kind of tracking and look how
prohibitively expensive that is. My vote is for you to just say, "Sorry,
nobody makes that...yet."

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Lars Ericson: Professional Vagabond
Smalley Research Group, Rice University
E-Mail: lericson@****.edu
WWW: http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~lericson/

"Raisin Hell -- a million raisins in every can."
-- Sifl & Olly Show
Message no. 3
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:58:03 -0400
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Rich Willoughby wrote:

->A player of mine has asked for a couple of custom pieces of gear. I can't
->find anything similar to either of them in any of my books, and since I'm a
->relatively inexperienced GM, I was hoping to get some opinions from the list
->on how they would work so I don't end giving him anything to outrageous.

Ok, EvilGM giving it a try (remember, make them sorry they asked
for it).

->1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
->I presume that for game balance, you couldn't totally mask the wearer's IR
->signiture. It would probably just reduce the effectiveness of any kind of
->IR sensor or sight.

A cloak or cape of ruthenium polymers would do this (Shadowtech
has the rules for it). If you don't have Shadowtech, tell the player if
they want it they have to buy the book. Otherwise they don't want it bad
enough. It'll mask the visual signature (kind of) but if you try to erase
the IR sig you'll either need a cooling mechanism or a short duration (as
the character would overheat quickly).

->2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how this
->would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
->offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making it
->easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it most
->likely work through?

Ultrasound will work for this effect. It doesn't use the same
principles but it's effects are similar. The player won't notice the
difference. Not sure which book ultrasound sights are in, I believe
Street Samurai Catalog.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 4
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:17:09 -0700
>1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
>I presume that for game balance, you couldn't totally mask the wearer's IR
>signiture. It would probably just reduce the effectiveness of any kind of
>IR sensor or sight.

Chemical chill can. Depending upon how much Freon ... whoops, that's
Refrigerant 132A for those that follow the CFC Ozone treaty ... you carry,
you should be able to mask your signature for at least, 15 minutes or so.
You need software to selectively bleed heat to match the background ... the
chill can serves as a heatsink to dump the excess. Mix and match with a
Ghillie suit and/or Ruthenium polymers ...

>2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how this
>would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
>offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making it
>easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it most
>likely work through?

Doppler radar works on determining differences in velocity. Doing that
requires resolution, which requires a) surface area (read: large antennae)
and b) signal strength (read: lots of power to generate irradiance)

Both of these criteria are, shall we say, grounded in physics ... no real
way to offset. So, Doppler radar cyberware is not real likely ...

On the other hand, today, we have radar on a microchip. It works by sending
out extremely fast (femtosecond) bursts of irradiance in a specific pattern
(to allow the return signal to be accurately gauged). It doesn't require a
lot of power ... you can use a 9 volt battery ... and has a couple hundred
meters of range, and is able to work through walls, doors, etc. The precise
spacing of the signal pattern does provide phase information (read,
velocity changes) to a certain degree.

However, as a practical matter this is better off in the sighting system of
a weapon or on the chest plate of milspec armor than as a cyberimplant.

>Rich


--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 5
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:26:14 -0400
>A player of mine has asked for a couple of custom pieces of gear. I can't
>find anything similar to either of them in any of my books, and since I'm a
>relatively inexperienced GM, I was hoping to get some opinions from the list
>on how they would work so I don't end giving him anything to outrageous.
>
>1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
>I presume that for game balance, you couldn't totally mask the wearer's IR
>signiture. It would probably just reduce the effectiveness of any kind of
>IR sensor or sight.

I made some rules for something like this a few weeks ago for a similar
thread I'll paste what I came up with at the end of this message.


>
>2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how this
>would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
>offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making it
>easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it most
>likely work through?
>

How would this work, well it would cook the character in short order,
think mounting a microwave oven inside the body. First you have heating
from the gear itseld getting hot , then it's microwaving you. You should
last about 1 minute before organ failure begins.

IR Sneak suit:

Base Cost : 200,000

Effect : Adds +8 to thermographic based detection tests. Causes extreme
temperature build up. When the heat vents are first closed the "heat
index" is at -5 for every 5 minutes they remain closed while undergoing
low to moderate exertion or 2 minutes for heavy exertion (A character
with an active Adrenal Pump is considered to always be under heavy
exertion) it increases by one. After the Heat Index reaches 0 everytime
the Heat Index increases The wearer must make a body test against (1/2
the characters body + heat index ) M stun ( a larger body means more body
mass, more body mass means more heat is produced) add 2 to the Tn if the
character has a superthryoid gland (increased metabolism means more
heat). When the heat index reaches 10 An additional body test against
(1/2 body -10 + Heat Index) M Physical must be made whenever the Heat
Index increases. When the Vents are opened The Heat Index will decrease
by 1 for every 10 minutes of moderate exertion and stay stable under
heavy exertion, but it decreases the target numbers for thermographic
based detection tests by the Heat Index.

Contains Ruthenium Fibre shell with 6 processors.

Armor : 4/3


Options:

Radar absorbent material :
Cost 100,000
Effect : Adds +3 to radar based detection tests, reduce armor by 1/1.


Anechoic coating :
Cost 75,000
Effect : Adds +3 to sonar based detection tests, reduce armor by 1/1.


Integrated communication/sensor system :

Transciever :
Cost : 2,500

Commlink II :
Cost : 5,000

Commlink IV :
Cost : 10,000

Encryption System (Rating 1-4) :
Cost : 5,000 X Rating

Audio Amplification :
Cost : 1,000

Audio Damper :
Cost : 500

Visual Display (Required for any vision modifications) :
Cost : 1,000

Light Amplification :
Cost : 1,000

Thermographic sight :
Cost 1,000

Flare Compensation :
Cost : 500

Ultrasonic Imaging :
Cost : 3,500

Visual Magnification :

Level 1 :
Cost : 2,500

Level 2 :
Cost : 6,000

Level 3 :
Cost : 10,000

Smartlink Relay (completes weapon to hand link for characters with
Smartlinks installed) :
Cost : 500

Smartlink :
Cost : 3000

Rangefinder :
Cost : 1,000

Life Support Systems :

Envrioseal (fully sealed envrionment) 1 hr Life support:
Cost : 25,000

Air Filtration system :
Cost : 5,000

Improved Coolant System (Decrease Heat Index by 1 for every 5 minutes
moderate exertion or every 10 minutes heavy exertionwith Vents open) :
Cost : 25,000
Message no. 6
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:11:32 -0700
:> 2. Doppler Radar cyberware - I have only a limited knowledge of how
this
:> would work. My guess is that it would let you "see" motion, perhaps
:> offsetting the penalties for moving targets in ranged combat or making
it
:> easier to see moving objects in the dark. Also, what organs would it
most
:> likely work through?
:
:Something like this either is manufactured by a company or not. A street
:doc can't hobble together an internal headware computer. I'd say that a
:Targeting Computer basically does this kind of tracking and look how
:prohibitively expensive that is. My vote is for you to just say, "Sorry,
:nobody makes that...yet."


You could (maybe) construct something like that using a cyberlimb and
sensors from R2. You would need DNI and probably a display link to show
the output, and it would likely fill the whole arm, like the cyberlimb
signal booster for headware rigger decks.
HMM, cyberlimb signal boosters are available at flux up to +10. A +10
signal amp for a normal RCD weighs 10 kilos, so I'd say you could put 10
kilo's worth of gear in a cyberarm. That doesn't get you much in the way
of sensors (in fact, you would need 2 limbs), but I think you can buy
various specific improvements for less.
Actually, a limit like "10% of body mass" seems more logical.

Mongoose
Message no. 7
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:17:55 -0700
>IR Sneak suit:

Ahem. ;-)

I posted something like this several years ago. A copy resides on Paolo's
archive, under Stealth Suit. I also have things like Pattern Maskers and
such ... and tests for how long the chill can lasts ...

;-)

Interesting to see your take on it.

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 8
From: "Shawn L. Stroud" <bird_man@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:16:32 -0500
Rich Willoughby wrote:

> A player of mine has asked for a couple of custom pieces of gear. <snip>
>
> 1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
> <snip>

2.Doppler Radar cyberware <snip>

ITems of this type are handled in a groovy way by Cpunk 2020. Check out some
of the Chromebooks for ideas. Another way to handle it is to have the player
design his own stuff, which you then alter to suit you (as GM...) You set the
prices and availability. The beauty of this way is that you don't actually have
to make skull sweat while figuring out what & how doppler radar sensorware would
work.

Bird_man
Message no. 9
From: Kevin Vidomski <vidomski@********.CS.UREGINA.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:34:48 -0600
David Foster wrote:
>
> Ultrasound will work for this effect. It doesn't use the same
>principles but it's effects are similar. The player won't notice the
>difference. Not sure which book ultrasound sights are in, I believe
>Street Samurai Catalog.
>
The ultrasound sight and goggles are also on p. 282 of SR3.
Message no. 10
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:31:07 -0400
On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Shawn L. Stroud wrote:

->Rich Willoughby wrote:
->
->> A player of mine has asked for a couple of custom pieces of gear. <snip>
->>
->> 1. Stealth Clothing - like the stuff Snake Pliskin wore in 'Escape from LA'.
->> <snip>
->
->2.Doppler Radar cyberware <snip>
->
-> ITems of this type are handled in a groovy way by Cpunk 2020. Check out some
->of the Chromebooks for ideas. Another way to handle it is to have the player
->design his own stuff, which you then alter to suit you (as GM...) You set the
->prices and availability. The beauty of this way is that you don't actually have
->to make skull sweat while figuring out what & how doppler radar sensorware would
->work.

Or, following our temporarily parallel thread on equipment in
cyberlimbs, an Ultrasound emittor/detector in your cyberlimb with a direct
neural interface.... Whoa.... cool idea!

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about [SR3] Gear ideas: Stealth Clothing and Doppler Radar cyberware, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.