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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:16:59 -0500
----------
> From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
>
> ...and, in fact, katanas AREN'T universally better than a
European
> sword. High-quality katanas are good swords. High-quality European
swords
> are good swords. Crap (and yes, there ARE crappy katanas) is crap
no
> matter where it comes from. The fact that katanas do more damage in
SR
> than European swords I attribute to either a) the designers
innocently
> buying into the Sooper Neenja Death Sword myth or b) the designers
wanting
> to encourage people to use katanas because they're better suited to
the
> 'feel' of the setting than a European (hey, or African!) sword
would be.

<minor rant> Why is it that every list I get on argues this?
Palladium, AD&D, Ars Magica, now here </minor rant>

Ok, the difference between the swords is what they were used for.
Oriental armor, when it was present, was wicker and thick padding,
occasionally supplemented by steel. European armor was big plates of
steel, with padding to make the stuff fit. Against the kind of
armor it was up against, and a against flesh, a katana is an awesome
weapon, having a very high-quality cutting edge. Against
western-style heavy armor, it would be damn near worthless, because
it couldn't get through the steel in many cases. A western sword,
OTOH, was a moderately sharp club. While skill and such played into
the use of it, most of its damage came from the fact that it was
_very_ heavy. Its edges were softer than a katana's because if they
were as hard (and brittle) as a katana, they would snap on the
heavier armor.

I figure katanas do more damage because the majority of casual armor
in the 2060's isn't really western-style heavy armor. Its clothing
supplemented by lightweight plates and some padding... the kind of
environment a katana excels in. Some with a katana attacks someone
in security (or, gods help them, military armor), I'm going to laugh
at them. Someone with a claymore does the same, and I'm going to
start taking them seriously.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
The place to improve the world is in one's own heart and head and
hands, and then work outward from there. Other people talk about how
to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to
fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting
value.
-Robert Pirsig, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
Message no. 2
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:18:52 -0400
At 03:16 PM 9/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I figure katanas do more damage because the majority of casual armor
>in the 2060's isn't really western-style heavy armor. Its clothing
>supplemented by lightweight plates and some padding... the kind of
>environment a katana excels in. Some with a katana attacks someone
>in security (or, gods help them, military armor), I'm going to laugh
>at them. Someone with a claymore does the same, and I'm going to
>start taking them seriously.

The sword 'category' in the cannon is archetypical. That is to say it take
the average of a good weapon and a bad weapon and grade on the average.
There's a much deeper curve for their 'swords' category than there is for
their 'katanas' category

I truth, I think each individual sword should have its own damage code
based on size and construction, but I know of a great many munchkin-types
who would argue that their particular sword is "the best type", "the best
quality" and "the finest craftsmanship" (ie - "It should do (Str x
2)D!").

When its not all that important to the character, just so long as its a
sword, the generic rules ar fine. when you have a connoseur, you should
adjust the damage code (and the weapon cost) accordingly.

As far as I'm concerned, a claymore falls into the "Polearms" category
depite its dominantly bladed nature. :)


>***************
>Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
> aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars

(>)noysh the spoonë bard
-> jack of all trades, master of none. <-
Message no. 3
From: John Dukes <dukes@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:41:54 -0500
I've always interpreted a "katana" in Shadowrun to be any large sword of
exceptional quality. I interpret a "sword" to be any one-handed sword, or
shorter more concealible sword. I've also heard of people saying that any
sword used two-handed uses the "katana" damage code. And that any sword
(including katanas) used one handed uses the "sword" damage code. I kinda
leave it up to the player, although I've a bit of a liking for the Ares
Monosword myself. ;)

-Teeg
Message no. 4
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:45:09 +1000
> I've always interpreted a "katana" in Shadowrun to be any large sword
> of
> exceptional quality. I interpret a "sword" to be any one-handed sword,
> or
> shorter more concealible sword. I've also heard of people saying that
> any
> sword used two-handed uses the "katana" damage code. And that any
> sword
> (including katanas) used one handed uses the "sword" damage code. I
> kinda
> leave it up to the player, although I've a bit of a liking for the
> Ares
> Monosword myself. ;)
>
> -Teeg
>
Interesting interpretation, but I'd have to disagree. Every single sword
that I've seen described as a TWO-HANDED SWORD in Shadowrun rules has
had a base damage level of S. Check the weapons used by the Scots in
Imago. That's your claymore (which is really a big bastard sword -
hand-and-a-half - more than a pure two-hander), but at any rate, the
power is Str+2 and the damage is S. THAT'S your difference between one
and two handed swords in Shadowrun. A two-hander gets more power behind
it than a one-hander, so it does more damage. I think the real reason
(as seen by FASA at least) that a katana has a higher power than a sword
is that a) by design, it's sharper and so it cuts stuff up better and b)
because it's a better sword (quality-wise - that's why it costs more).
I'd say that if you want a 'sword' that does Str+3 you just have to pay
for a better one - or a monosword. a) is also the reason why a katana,
which isn't going to hit as hard as a two-handed sword (unless used with
two hands) has a better power than the claymore - because it's designed
that way.

Doc'
Message no. 5
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:44:39 -0700
>I'd say that if you want a 'sword' that does Str+3 you just have to pay
>for a better one - or a monosword. a) is also the reason why a katana,
>which isn't going to hit as hard as a two-handed sword (unless used with
>two hands) has a better power than the claymore - because it's designed
>that way.

Unless you are doing something esoteric like Nito-Ryu Kenjutsu you are
using a katana with both hands.

>Doc'

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 6
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Japanese Superswords
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:35:35 -0700
:I figure katanas do more damage because the majority of casual armor
:in the 2060's isn't really western-style heavy armor. Its clothing
:supplemented by lightweight plates and some padding... the kind of
:environment a katana excels in. Some with a katana attacks someone
:in security (or, gods help them, military armor), I'm going to laugh
:at them. Someone with a claymore does the same, and I'm going to
:start taking them seriously.



Against REAL armor, maybe a Kantana should have half power (as all
edged weapons Vs barriers do) but a specialized barrier puncher (like a
combat ax, pole ax, or claymore) should not; even if it is an edged
weapon, it has the momentum of a blunt one.

As a note, it is funny you mention security armor, because, besides
the spirits, that is EXACTLY what my character used the claymore for. We
had a shotgun and some heavy pistols, and there were lots of dudes in
heavy security. We could hold them off, but not for long. So I figured,
what the heck, their impact armor can't be that good, I'm really strong,
insanely fast, and have a giant sword; "Mage; make me invisible. HMM, and
use 'armor' while your at it". Zoom, wham, dead strike agent. They got
me with suppression and grenades after about 7 dudes went down in about 10
pieces.

Mongoose

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