Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:11:25 +0000
Since some things have been mentiond here are some other things I
would like to see clarified / restated:

1.) Manipulation spell - Damaging manipulation are resisted using
Body + Combat pool. What effect does spell defence / shielding have?

2.) Availability / Street Index for spell formulae. This may end up
as a fairly big table like the weapons but will be quite handy and
bring the spells into line with matrix utilities, weapons.etc.

3.) Either a re-write of barriers OR a clarification of their effects
in physical and astral seperately. IMHO a ward, mana barrier etc. in
astral space is not transparent. Others might (and will) disagree.

4.) Limitations on force / rating of things designed by 'mystic' to
go by the suggested (unpopular) word. Specifically with respect to
enchanters making medicine lodges and ritual materials.

5.) Perhaps state more clearly that a mage only checks for magic loss
when taking a single deadly wound, not when he goes to or over deadly
damage.

6.) Elemental / Totem bonus dice are additions to the magic pool.
The maximumnumber that can be used on a success test is equal to the
magic rating.

5.) and 6.) might be argued as being fairly clear in the rules but
I've known people who were confused about them. In fact number 6.)
only dawned on me recently when again pondering on why hermetics
appeared so much more powerful that shamans. Until then AFAIK a
hermetic could Hellblast somebody and use base dice + 36dice from
elementals if he had prepared it in advance ! I mis-read elemental
assistance.

7.) Sky-Spirits. There are only Mist and Storm spirits in the book.
What about when the sky is clear, can you still summon a sky spirit ?



Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 2
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:26:05 EST
In a message dated 98-01-10 12:14:42 EST, A.Gardner@******.COM writes:

> 7.) Sky-Spirits. There are only Mist and Storm spirits in the book.
> What about when the sky is clear, can you still summon a sky spirit ?
>
I'll just reply to this one, that way no one get's mad at me...

We allow for a "Wind" Spirit, which apparently was left out of the rules.
Stats were the same of course, with the powers of Accident (think of
poltergiest effects), Confusion, Guard, Manifestation, Movement,
Psychokinesis, and Search.

We figured that Concealment in "an open sky" wasn't really justifiable.
Alienation was under consideration (anyone who's flown in a small plane can
understand that one). Fear was deemed more of a "storm" spirit power. They
don't really have a "storm strike" power, as non-stormy skies aren't that
known for such considerable force phenomena.
-K
Message no. 3
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:41:49 +0000
On 10 Jan 98, Andy Gardner disseminated foul capitalist propaganda by
writing:

<snip>
> 1.) Manipulation spell - Damaging manipulation are resisted using
> Body + Combat pool. What effect does spell defence / shielding
> have?

AFAIK none. That's the advantage of using manipulations over combat
spells. I have a 0 grade physmage that doesn't know he's anything
else but a physad, so he keeps his Magic Pool (Shielding, since he's
self-initiated) always allocated do spell-defense... Four dice.
Sheesh. NPCs are having SERIOUS trouble to fry him with a powerbolt
(or a manabolt, for that matter)...

A manipulation would bypass that protection...

> 2.) Availability / Street Index for spell formulae. This may end up
> as a fairly big table like the weapons but will be quite handy and
> bring the spells into line with matrix utilities, weapons.etc.

Well, I don't really see the need to.

<snip>

Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; ICQ UIN 6947998; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO;
FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae
Palatinae
Scrabble players can lay seven at one go.
Message no. 4
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:58:07 -0005
On 10 Jan 98 at 17:11, Andy Gardner wrote:

> Since some things have been mentiond here are some other things I
> would like to see clarified / restated:
>
> 1.) Manipulation spell - Damaging manipulation are resisted using
> Body + Combat pool. What effect does spell defence / shielding have?

Ah... good one. If I may, here's how I handle it. You can either use
Combat pool or Spell defense, but not both. The logic goes something like
this. Using combat pool, in essence, is the act of running, jumping,
dodging, ducking and diving for cover.. more or less. In short, getting
out of the way. Spell defense requires LOS. If you are ducking behind
things for cover, this is not conducive to maintaining LOS, thus no spell
defense. In the case of a magician wanting to use both, we rule that all
that running, jumping, diving, dodging doesn't leave much time for
concentrating and focusing on spell defense, hence again, no spell
defense. So.. you either stand still and trust the magic, or you dive
for cover, but you can't have it both ways. That's the local and
unofficial house rule. Make of it what you will.

>
> 2.) Availability / Street Index for spell formulae. This may end up as a
> fairly big table like the weapons but will be quite handy and bring the
> spells into line with matrix utilities, weapons.etc.

Good point. Hows this sound. Max Force + Drain TN mods + (+2 for M / +4
for S / +6 for D) Drain Code? Simple and it punishes those high force,
complex spell addicts.

>
> 3.) Either a re-write of barriers OR a clarification of their effects in
> physical and astral seperately. IMHO a ward, mana barrier etc. in astral
> space is not transparent. Others might (and will) disagree.

No arguements from me.. and in most cases I agree, they are opaque on the
astral. Though in the case of Alarm Wards I think it's clear they are
not, but that's a special case.

>
> 4.) Limitations on force / rating of things designed by 'mystic' to
> go by the suggested (unpopular) word. Specifically with respect to
> enchanters making medicine lodges and ritual materials.

What sorts of limits?
--

Ashlocke

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R
Message no. 5
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:08:58 +0000
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:58:07 -0005 Ashlockepondered

> On 10 Jan 98 at 17:11, Andy Gardner wrote:
[SNIP]
> > 4.) Limitations on force / rating of things designed by 'mystic' to
> > go by the suggested (unpopular) word. Specifically with respect to
> > enchanters making medicine lodges and ritual materials.
>
> What sorts of limits?

Personally I think that it should be limited by the creators
intelligence since that limits how many fetishes they make in one go.
That way also getting a rating 6 lodge (or summoning materials) is
possible if you've got a good talismonger.
Rating 7 needs an exceptional one. Higher and you're looking at
somebody with the increased intelligence spell or a cerebral booster.
That way you can't have a starting character with enchanting skill
state that he wants to create a rating 24 medicine lodge.

The other possible ones would be Mag Theory or Enchanting, but in
order to raise these you need a lodge rating equal to the rating you
want to go to. Chicken and Egg situation.

Having said all that I am a bit biased since I play a fox-shifter
with exceptional attribute intelligence (Int = 8) who is a
talismonger when not on runs, but the above logic does make sense and
is consistent with the other rules.


Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:32:46 +0100
Andy Gardner said on 17:11/10 Jan 98...

> Since some things have been mentiond here are some other things I
> would like to see clarified / restated:
>
> 1.) Manipulation spell - Damaging manipulation are resisted using
> Body + Combat pool. What effect does spell defence / shielding have?

IMHO it comes in addition to the Body + Combat Pool dice. This may make
them easy to stage down to nothing, but remember that you first have to
have someone to _give_ you spell defense.

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere in an SR rulebook, though.

> 2.) Availability / Street Index for spell formulae. This may end up
> as a fairly big table like the weapons but will be quite handy and
> bring the spells into line with matrix utilities, weapons.etc.

Costs for spell formulae are in the Grimoire, or at least in the errata
for it (look at Paolo's archive). Availability and street indices have
been conveniently forgotten, unfortunately, but I consider Availability
(Force)/7 days, Street Index 2 to be reasonable figures. Having these
things cleared up in a third edition re-write once and for all would be
nice, though.

> 3.) Either a re-write of barriers OR a clarification of their effects
> in physical and astral seperately. IMHO a ward, mana barrier etc. in
> astral space is not transparent. Others might (and will) disagree.

Me, for instance :)

> 6.) Elemental / Totem bonus dice are additions to the magic pool.
> The maximumnumber that can be used on a success test is equal to the
> magic rating.

This is quite clear already, isn't it?

> 7.) Sky-Spirits. There are only Mist and Storm spirits in the book.
> What about when the sky is clear, can you still summon a sky spirit ?

I've ruled that you can summon a Storm spirit at any time, as long as
there's a bit of wind.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - UIN5044116
In the garden.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 7
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:31:21 -0005
On 10 Jan 98 at 19:08, Andy Gardner wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:58:07 -0005 Ashlockepondered
>
> > On 10 Jan 98 at 17:11, Andy Gardner wrote:
> [SNIP]
> > > 4.) Limitations on force / rating of things designed by 'mystic' to
> > > go by the suggested (unpopular) word. Specifically with respect to
> > > enchanters making medicine lodges and ritual materials.
> >
> > What sorts of limits?
>
> Personally I think that it should be limited by the creators
> intelligence since that limits how many fetishes they make in one go.
> That way also getting a rating 6 lodge (or summoning materials) is
> possible if you've got a good talismonger. Rating 7 needs an exceptional
> one. Higher and you're looking at somebody with the increased
> intelligence spell or a cerebral booster. That way you can't have a
> starting character with enchanting skill state that he wants to create a
> rating 24 medicine lodge.
>
Hmm... I like it. But at some point, theoretically, you'll need to be
able to create things that exceed your intelligence rating. So to handle
that, how about this. For purposes of the max rating, it's Intelligence
plus Initiate grade. After all, initiates are supposed to be learning
more about the "deeper mysteries" of magic, you would presume that would
allow them to do more in a variety of ways. Sound viable?
--

Ashlocke

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R
Message no. 8
From: Andy Gardner <A.Gardner@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:53:44 +0000
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:31:21 -0005 Ashlocke wrote

> > [SNIP]
> > > > 4.) Limitations on force / rating of things designed by 'mystic' to
> > > > go by the suggested (unpopular) word. Specifically with respect to
> > > > enchanters making medicine lodges and ritual materials.
> > >
> > > What sorts of limits?
> >
> > Personally I think that it should be limited by the creators
> > intelligence since that limits how many fetishes they make in one go.
> > That way also getting a rating 6 lodge (or summoning materials) is
> > possible if you've got a good talismonger. Rating 7 needs an exceptional
> > one. Higher and you're looking at somebody with the increased
> > intelligence spell or a cerebral booster. That way you can't have a
> > starting character with enchanting skill state that he wants to create a
> > rating 24 medicine lodge.
> >
> Hmm... I like it. But at some point, theoretically, you'll need to be
> able to create things that exceed your intelligence rating. So to handle
> that, how about this. For purposes of the max rating, it's Intelligence
> plus Initiate grade. After all, initiates are supposed to be learning
> more about the "deeper mysteries" of magic, you would presume that would
> allow them to do more in a variety of ways. Sound viable?

I admit I like the idea of adding initiate grade (character goes up
to rating 10 materials :)) and it does fit in with the world view.
As it stands though a human talismonger with Cerebral booster 2,
Increase cybered Intelligence +4, (argueably) Cerebral Booster 3 and
exceptional attribute has an int limit of 15.

I dislike the idea of an absolute limit but in many ways 15 is about
as big as it needs to get.

Fox on the Net
ICQ UIN - 5239612
Message no. 9
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Clarifications
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:03:26 -0800
Leszek Karlik, aka Mike wrote:

> > 2.) Availability / Street Index for spell formulae. This may end up
> > as a fairly big table like the weapons but will be quite handy and
> > bring the spells into line with matrix utilities, weapons.etc.

> Well, I don't really see the need to.

I think a few general notes would be handy; not a spell-by-spell
breakdown, though. By spell category (with maybe separate entries for
the various Manipulations) should suffice -- it already works for
fetishes, after all.


------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl

SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about SR3 Magic Clarifications, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.