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Message no. 1
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:21:15 -0400
Having read thru the magic section and the combat section I have
a couple of questions about magical combat.

In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
in SR3?

Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting mage?
Message no. 2
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:24:01 -0400
On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 09:21:15PM -0400, westln@***.EDU wrote:
> Having read thru the magic section and the combat section I have
> a couple of questions about magical combat.
>
> In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
> in SR3?

I don't see why not. It doesn't seem to be specifically
mentioned, that I can see, but I'd use the rule for Astral Evasion -
the spell tries to evade the mage and reach its target. So, an opposed
roll between the mage's Magic attribute and the spell's Force, with
the victor getting their way. In the case of the intercepting Mage,
that would mean entering into astral combat with the spell.
However, I could be way wrong on this one. Anyone?

> Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting mage?

Should be perfectly legal, assuming the caster is either astrally
projecting or astrally perceiving (or dual-natured, I suppose, but let's
not go there).

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 3
From: Paul Meyer <pmeyer@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:35:13 -0700
> westln@***.EDU wrote:
>In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this
happen
>in SR3?

(For both of these answers, I'm relying as much on my memory of
playtesting the SR3 magic rules as on looking at the published book. The
important thing is that the idea of intercepting or parrying a spell was
explicitly allowed in the SR2 rules, and is NOT mentioned in the SR3 rules.
If you hadn't played SR2, you wouldn't expect to be able to dodge a spell.)

Spells are no longer astral "entities" like spirits. They are more
like very fast bullets fired out of a gun. As such, a spirit or mage is not
fast enough to intercept one. The Spell Defense or Shielding (presumably,
when MITS comes out) ability of a magician represents their ability to
area-defend against spells - and notice that in the final published rules
you explicitly get to see the spell incoming and decide how much of your
spell defense to allocate to it.

>Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting
mage?

More or less the same as if the mage were physically present. The
spell moves too fast to "dodge", but you get the normal resistance rolls,
etc. Also, the astral mage is going to have that amazingly fast initiative
and reaction, so he/she will be able to get out of your line of fire really
quick if he/she wants to. In the converse direction, because you can now
explicitly use Stealth while on the Astral plane, if I were the mage I
probably would be sneaking up anyway...
Message no. 4
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:42:41 -0400
>> westln@***.EDU wrote:
> >In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this
>happen
> >in SR3?
>
> (For both of these answers, I'm relying as much on my memory of
>playtesting the SR3 magic rules as on looking at the published book. The
>important thing is that the idea of intercepting or parrying a spell was
>explicitly allowed in the SR2 rules, and is NOT mentioned in the SR3 rules.
>If you hadn't played SR2, you wouldn't expect to be able to dodge a spell.)
>
> Spells are no longer astral "entities" like spirits. They are more
>like very fast bullets fired out of a gun. As such, a spirit or mage is not
>fast enough to intercept one. The Spell Defense or Shielding (presumably,
>when MITS comes out) ability of a magician represents their ability to
>area-defend against spells - and notice that in the final published rules
>you explicitly get to see the spell incoming and decide how much of your
>spell defense to allocate to it.
>
> >Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting
>mage?
>
> More or less the same as if the mage were physically present. The
>spell moves too fast to "dodge", but you get the normal resistance rolls,
>etc. Also, the astral mage is going to have that amazingly fast initiative
>and reaction, so he/she will be able to get out of your line of fire really
>quick if he/she wants to. In the converse direction, because you can now
>explicitly use Stealth while on the Astral plane, if I were the mage I
>probably would be sneaking up anyway...

This is starting to hit upon where my confusion begins. Regretably my copy of
SR3 is at a players house.

If I have two astrally projecting mages. Mage A casts a stunbolt at mage B.
The way I read it means that mage B defends from the spell exactly as if
they were both in physical space.

Would the damage be stun? or physical since B is astrally projecting?

Now what happens if B is only astrally perceiving? while A is astrally
projecting.

Now instead of a stun bolt us a stun ball. Mage A casts the ball at mage
B&C who are both within the range of the balls target point.

And finally what if instead of mages defending it's elementals?
Message no. 5
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:20:38 -0400
At 09:21 PM 10-1-98 -0400, <westln@***.EDU> wrote:
>
>In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
>in SR3?

AFAIK, no. The SR3 rules don't mention it, and spells are no longer
described as astral entities. <sigh> Don't you just love how they didn't
bother to clarify all those rules that weren't going to change in the first
place?

>Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting mage?

Normally. The mage resists normally (usually with Willpower), and can use
spell defense.
Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 6
From: "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:51:54 +1000
westln@***.EDU wrote:
<If I have two astrally projecting mages. Mage A casts a stunbolt at
mage B. The way I read it means that mage B defends from the spell
exactly as if they were both in physical space.

> Would the damage be stun? or physical since B is astrally projecting?>
>
Okay, I don't know about intercepting spells, but stun damage is only
EVER changed to physical damage in the case of a) Stun overflow and b)
Drain. In astral space, you take physical damage from any spell because
you're channelling mana through your aura and that's more damaging to
you, or something like that (can't remember the page that comes from).
Now, I suppose you could argue that for the same reason any stun damage
TAKEN should be upgraded to physical damage, but you're not directly
manipulating the mana, so I assume that's why they decided that you
don't upgrade stun damage. They never actually SAID that you upgrade any
stun damage TAKEN, so you don't do it. Drain is always physical on the
astral plane. Everything else is as usual.

<Now what happens if B is only astrally perceiving? while A is astrally
projecting.>

Same dif. You're astrally active, so A can toss a spell into you.
Obviously, you only take stun damage. If you WEREN'T astrally active you
wouldn't take ANY damage.

<Now instead of a stun bolt us a stun ball. Mage A casts the ball at
mage B&C who are both within the range of the balls target point.>

If they're astrally active, they take STUN damage. If not, they don't
even notice it.

<And finally what if instead of mages defending it's elementals?>

They take stun damage.

Nowhere at ALL (at least, in the magic chapter, which is where you'd
expect to find it) does it say anything about upgrading stun damage
taken to physical damage, just because you're astrally active. Only if
you yourself are channelling the mana do you take physical damage as
opposed to normal stun drain.

Think about it - characters have the option of doing physical OR stun
damage with astral 'melee' attacks. If all astral damage WAS upgraded to
physical damage, then you wouldn't have that option, would you? You'd
just do physical damage. Same with a spell.

*Doc' astrally slaps himself on the cheek and is surprised when his head
explodes from the force of the blow.*

Doc'

.sig Sauer
Message no. 7
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:55:41 -0400
On Thu, 1 Oct 1998 westln@***.EDU wrote:

->Having read thru the magic section and the combat section I have
->a couple of questions about magical combat.
->
->In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
->in SR3?

You know what, I didn't notice. But, to make matters worse, on
Pg. 176, there is no damage code for a spell either, so they probably
can't counterattack. I'll have to say that "fighting a spell in the
Astral" has been replaced with Dispelling, which is no longer a
Metamagical ability.

->Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting mage?

Painfully. It'd hit them and hurt them if they didn't resist or
dispel it.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 8
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:38:06 -0400
On Fri, 2 Oct 1998 westln@***.EDU wrote:

<big snip on astral magic>
->This is starting to hit upon where my confusion begins. Regretably my copy of
->SR3 is at a players house.
->
->If I have two astrally projecting mages. Mage A casts a stunbolt at mage B.
->The way I read it means that mage B defends from the spell exactly as if
->they were both in physical space.
->
->Would the damage be stun? or physical since B is astrally projecting?

Stun, because the spell calls for it specifically. The casting
mage takes physical drain, however.

->Now what happens if B is only astrally perceiving? while A is astrally
->projecting.

Same, only the caster takes normal drain (stun if Force is not
greater than Magic Rating).

->Now instead of a stun bolt us a stun ball. Mage A casts the ball at mage
->B&C who are both within the range of the balls target point.

Still stun damage. If the spell specifically calls for it, it's
true.

->And finally what if instead of mages defending it's elementals?

Ditto.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 9
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:48:47 -0400
At 09:21 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Having read thru the magic section and the combat section I have
>a couple of questions about magical combat.
>
>In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
>in SR3?

No. A spell in no longer an astral entity; a spell cast on the mundane
plane essentially *travels* on the mundane plane. Not to mention that
spells travel at the speed of thought; can't possibly intercept that IMHO.

This is a part of the major change in magic that allows astral beings to
pass through non-astrally active living beings and disallows grounding.
Part of the same philosophy.

>Also how do you handle a mana spell cast at a astrally projecting mage?

As normal. Of course, the *caster* also has to be astrally present also of
course.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:01:02 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, westln@***.EDU wrote:
/
/ Having read thru the magic section and the combat section I have
/ a couple of questions about magical combat.
/
/ In SR2 a astrally projecting mage could intercept a spell. Can this happen
/ in SR3?

If the spell is cast on the physical plane, no. The mage is in astral
space and the spell is on the physical plane, and neither can interact
with the other.

If the spell is cast on the astral plane, I would still say no. As
near as I can figure SR3 spell casting uses mana to create the spell
effect at your target point. IMHO the spell doesn't travel from the
mage to the target. It seems to me that it's a two step proccess. The
mage gathers/channels mana to cast the spell. The spell then creates
the desired effect on the target without travelling from the mage to
the target.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 11
From: Paul Meyer <pmeyer@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Magic Question
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:13:23 -0700
> westln@***.EDU wrote:
>This is starting to hit upon where my confusion begins. Regretably
my copy of
>SR3 is at a players house.
>
>If I have two astrally projecting mages. Mage A casts a stunbolt at
mage B.
>The way I read it means that mage B defends from the spell exactly
as if
>they were both in physical space.
>
>Would the damage be stun? or physical since B is astrally
projecting?

This is probably the most common misconception about astral damage
I've seen. (I held it myself for years, until I happened to be reading the
relevant rules for another purpose.) ONLY DRAIN DAMAGE gets promoted from
stun to physical while astrally projecting. Since B is taking damage from a
spell, not drain from a spell B cast, the damage is stun. If the damage
knocks B out, B is dispersed. (Vanishes immediately from the astral plane
and teleports back to his/her body regardless of intervening astral
barriers, but then gets to roll for Magic loss.)

>Now what happens if B is only astrally perceiving? while A is
astrally
>projecting.

No difference from B's perspective. From A's perspective, the drain
gets to stay Stun (provided the force is right).

>Now instead of a stun bolt us a stun ball. Mage A casts the ball at
mage
>B&C who are both within the range of the balls target point.

Precisely the same as in the physical case. If both B and C are also
visible on the astral plane, both take damage. Note, however, the "glass
wall" effect: If C was in his/her body and not astrally active, C could
*not* be hurt by the stun ball thrown at an astral target. If, in that case,
and assuming A was only astrally perceiving, A could choose to hit C but
then would not hit B.

>And finally what if instead of mages defending it's elementals?

Makes no difference. A living being is a living being.

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