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Message no. 1
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:39:00 -0400
Currently I'm playing an Adept. I have generally felt that Adepts seem
to have very limited benefits from initiating. They can only gain
three meta magic abilities. Masking, Centering, Advance Centering.

Has anyone come up with other metamagic abilities for adepts?

Currently our group has given a limited form of shielding to adepts. It
can only be used to defend themself and they don't get a pool to add to
it. This was for an adept with astral perception and sorcery skill for
astral combat.

I have thought about a possible advance form of Masking to make adepts
less obvious in astral space. After all there aught to be something that
adepts are better at than magicians since Adepts spend all their energies
within their own aura.

Lorden
Message no. 2
From: Andrew Gwilliam <andrew@********.NET.UK>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:37:02 +0100
westln@***.EDU wrote:

>
>
>
> Currently our group has given a limited form of shielding to adepts. It
> can only be used to defend themself and they don't get a pool to add to
> it. This was for an adept with astral perception and sorcery skill for
> astral combat.
>

Can't be certain because I havent got my books with me at moment, but can't
adepts use shielding anyway?
Message no. 3
From: 00DNA <mcmanus@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:43:03 -0400
>Has anyone come up with other metamagic abilities for adepts?

I think most of us are just waiting for MitS to come out...
--00DNA
"The Matrix patterns itself on Nature" <<Replication Terminated>>
Message no. 4
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:02:40 -0400
Andrew Gwilliam wrote:
> > Currently our group has given a limited form of shielding to adepts. It
> > can only be used to defend themself and they don't get a pool to add to
> > it. This was for an adept with astral perception and sorcery skill for
> > astral combat.
>
> Can't be certain because I havent got my books with me at moment, but
> can't
> adepts use shielding anyway?
>
Well, if you just go by the textual description in the grimmy, yes they
can (they only start getting dice for it when they reach IL1, though).
However in Awakenings they imply that they can only use Masking and
Centering (Advanced Centering being an ability, I'm not going to count
it).

James Ojaste
Message no. 5
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:35:14 -0400
On Fri, 4 Sep 1998 westln@***.EDU wrote:

->I have thought about a possible advance form of Masking to make adepts
->less obvious in astral space. After all there aught to be something that
->adepts are better at than magicians since Adepts spend all their energies
->within their own aura.

Wow, I like this idea. Although you may wish to make it also have
some bearing on "Additional Stealth Dice" in addition to initiate grade.
Lessee.... what's the TN of noticing a mage in astral space?
(GLOWING NEON SIGN THAT SAYS 'MAGE HERE!') or something else.
Penalties to TN being add stealth dice, initiate grade and
environmental factors.
After all, how sneaky can you be in the physical world (open test
giving you a 17 Stealth result) if an astral mage can spot you before you
can sneeze?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 6
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:16:32 -0700
> Wow, I like this idea. Although you may wish to make it also
have
>some bearing on "Additional Stealth Dice" in addition to initiate grade.
> Lessee.... what's the TN of noticing a mage in astral space?
>(GLOWING NEON SIGN THAT SAYS 'MAGE HERE!') or something else.
> Penalties to TN being add stealth dice, initiate grade and
>environmental factors.
> After all, how sneaky can you be in the physical world (open test
>giving you a 17 Stealth result) if an astral mage can spot you before you
>can sneeze?


SR3 does not describe the senses used in astral space as being that
different from those in normal space, so why would the mage NOT need to
roll a 17? He can still hide and such [well, unless the adept does not
know the mage is there a,d walks right in front of (or through) him!].
The only difference is illumination, and that a 17 BEFORE illumination
modifiers kick in; somebody using thermo would do about as well.

Mongoose
Message no. 7
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 06:39:56 -0400
>> Wow, I like this idea. Although you may wish to make it also
>have
>>some bearing on "Additional Stealth Dice" in addition to initiate grade.
>> Lessee.... what's the TN of noticing a mage in astral space?
>>(GLOWING NEON SIGN THAT SAYS 'MAGE HERE!') or something else.
>> Penalties to TN being add stealth dice, initiate grade and
>>environmental factors.
>> After all, how sneaky can you be in the physical world (open test
>>giving you a 17 Stealth result) if an astral mage can spot you before you
>>can sneeze?
>
>
> SR3 does not describe the senses used in astral space as being that
>different from those in normal space, so why would the mage NOT need to
>roll a 17? He can still hide and such [well, unless the adept does not
>know the mage is there a,d walks right in front of (or through) him!].
>The only difference is illumination, and that a 17 BEFORE illumination
>modifiers kick in; somebody using thermo would do about as well.
>
>Mongoose

I am probably still under a misconception but in a typical appartment the
only thing living in it is the adept so the mage should be able to spot him
with ease. The same thing with any room in an archology. Now outdoors in
the woods anyone hiding in cover should be hard to find.

Here is an example at least in part from real life. We were playing a game
of capture the flag at night at a friends farm which had a grass airstrip
in it. In fatigues you could do a slow crawl across the airstrip and be
invisble at 5 feet. Infact one of us almost got run over by someone using a
quad runner with headlights. Now in the same situation I would think that
my aura would be very different than the 2 inch grass I was crawling thru.
If there was some way to make one's aura match that of your surroundings or
atleast break it up as camo does in real life then you could use stealth
and have it effect astral perception. Other wise the best I can think of is
hiding behind cover.

Lorden
Message no. 8
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:24:57 -0700
>> SR3 does not describe the senses used in astral space as being that
>>different from those in normal space, so why would the mage NOT need to
>>roll a 17? He can still hide and such [well, unless the adept does not
>>know the mage is there a,d walks right in front of (or through) him!].
>>The only difference is illumination, and that a 17 BEFORE illumination
>>modifiers kick in; somebody using thermo would do about as well.


>Now in the same situation I would think that
>my aura would be very different than the 2 inch grass I was crawling
thru.
>If there was some way to make one's aura match that of your surroundings
or
>atleast break it up as camo does in real life then you could use stealth
>and have it effect astral perception. Other wise the best I can think of
is
>hiding behind cover.


I was thinking exactly of that. You could certainly give the mage a
bonus for the adepts "inappropriate camouflage" and "action obvious",
but
the modifiers are three; they don't obviate the need for the test, or the
fact the adept might just roll real well and the mage poorly. Note that
using stealth is not possible in all cases; good visibility and no cover
is one of those cases. We have to assume that stealth IS possible to even
discus this.

Mongoose
Message no. 9
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:34:11 -0500
----------
> From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.net>
> I was thinking exactly of that. You could certainly give the mage a
> bonus for the adepts "inappropriate camouflage" and "action
obvious",
but
> the modifiers are three; they don't obviate the need for the test, or
the
> fact the adept might just roll real well and the mage poorly. Note that
> using stealth is not possible in all cases; good visibility and no cover
> is one of those cases. We have to assume that stealth IS possible to
even
> discus this.

Perhaps we can use Awakenings again (segue\ I reference this book so
often, mainly because I'm a magic junkie... we all want what we can't
have, and I want a goddamned Hellblast... makes parking easier... /segue).
In it, there is an adept power called "Spell Shroud", which makes an
adept much more difficult to detect by spells in astral space.

According to the wording of the power, it does not affect either Masking
attempts or attempts to read the character's aura, but it does state that
it "cloaks" their aura in astral space. This gives me several ideas.

The first is likely the most difficult, but I actually got it from my
shapeshifter character. When he's in human form, he masks his aura to
appear as a human adept, if not just a normal human. That means he
changes the shape of his aura from that of a wolf to that of a human.
Perhaps he could, if he concentrated, change the shape of his aura to
match that of the grass, or to more closely blend into the tree that he's
standing next to. Now, this assumes that a) the adept has a huge degree
of control over his aura b) that he is capable of astral perception and c)
he is an initiate. Not a viable option for all adepts.

Another option would be to simply allow an adepts Improved stealth dice to
apply in astral space. In this case, I would make it so that _only_ the
Improved Stealth dice were considered, not his own skill (for example,
Bishop has 5 dice in stealth, and 2 dice of Improved Stealth. Versus the
Security rigger at the mansion he is breaking into, he rolls 7 dice, but
against the Mambo who is astrally perceiving down the corridor, he only
rolls his two improved dice). Believe it or not, this has an actual
magical background in some traditions. By wrapping your aura tightly
around you, you are more difficult to notice in the real world, and don't
stand out as much to magical sight. It could be that that is what the
Improved Stealth ability does.

A third would be to include a special power to allow the adept to cloak
himself against astral perception, much like the Stealth skill helps in
real life. I'll have a suggestion for such a power at the end.

Finally, assuming you allow none of the above to work, there are options
for anyone seeking to avoid astral detection. One ploy that runners would
do well to try is to climb a tree. Unless whoever is searching astrally
is actually amongst the branches, your aura will likely be obscured by
that of the tree, making you much more difficult to pick out. The same
can apply to tall grass (so long as they don't look down on you from
above), or nearly any other large aura that you can hide behind. Earlier
in the summer, I proposed a ghillie suit impregnated with a form of algae
that would mask your aura to an extent. Other options along this line
might include one that actually had grasses growing in it. You would
still look out of place on the astral plane, but few magicians take the
trouble to assense carefully the local shrubbery, so you would have a
non-descript vegetable aura, as opposed to a non-descript metahuman aura
(which the sec-mage would be more likely to investigate... remember, you
can't gain any successes on a roll if you don't make one, and it takes at
least one success to recognize an aura beyond base type).

Now, for those of you who love powers, I have a couple toys for you.

Astral Stealth (or Improved Spell Shroud)
Cost .5 per level
This power cause the adept's aura to blend in with the background, much
like ruthenium polymers on the physical plane. Each level of this power
gives the adept one die to roll to avoid being noticed in astral space (to
generate a TN in an open test for those using SR3, or to cancel out astral
perception success for those using previous editions). Note that this
power does not require the adept to be astrally active... some adepts do
not even know they have the power. It also functions as the power Spell
Shroud (pg 119 Awakenings) at the same level.

Enhanced Masking
Cost: 2
This allows the adept to do much more with his aura than simply conceal
magical abilities. It allows the adept to alter many fundamental facts
about his aura, to appear as almost anything he wishes, from a patch of
grass to an immortal dwarf-elf hybrid with the arms of a troll. Various
other uses include making the adept appear much more powerful, as another
person (who's aura the adept knows), or to aid in normal attempts to
Deliberately Mask his aura (effectively doubling his available dice).
To use this power, the adept rolls a number of dice as if he were
Deliberately Masking his aura (for the first two editions, that would be
twice his initiate grade... it is currently unknown what it will mean in
third edition) as his Stealth skill against astral observers (either
generating a TN to be noticed, or canceling successes that would otherwise
be used against him). No dice, save those from the Karma Pool or the
above Astral Stealth power (and the latter only if attempting to hide,
rather than enhance his aura), may aid in this test. While using this
power is considered an Exclusive action, that seldom bothers followers of
the somatic way, affecting more those who attempt to blend it with another
(physical magicians).
Of course, this requires an adept capable of Masking (which, in the first
two editions, also meant he must be capable of astrally perceiving).

Comments, questions, vile and untrue imprecations about my heritage?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"You fail, Death-Lord! You destroy the instrument, but not its music.
With all your power you have gained only a broken shell."
In that moment, when the harp had been silenced, arose the songs of
birds, the chiming of brooks, the humming of wind through grass and
leaves; and all these voices took up the strands of melody, more beautiful
than before.
-Lloyd Alexander, "The Smith, The Weaver, and the Harper"
Message no. 10
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 03:23:45 -0400
>>> SR3 does not describe the senses used in astral space as being that
>>>different from those in normal space, so why would the mage NOT need to
>>>roll a 17? He can still hide and such [well, unless the adept does not
>>>know the mage is there a,d walks right in front of (or through) him!].
>>>The only difference is illumination, and that a 17 BEFORE illumination
>>>modifiers kick in; somebody using thermo would do about as well.
>
>
>>Now in the same situation I would think that
>>my aura would be very different than the 2 inch grass I was crawling
>thru.
>>If there was some way to make one's aura match that of your surroundings
>or
>>atleast break it up as camo does in real life then you could use stealth
>>and have it effect astral perception. Other wise the best I can think of
>is
>>hiding behind cover.
>
>
> I was thinking exactly of that. You could certainly give the mage a
>bonus for the adepts "inappropriate camouflage" and "action
obvious", but
>the modifiers are three; they don't obviate the need for the test, or the
>fact the adept might just roll real well and the mage poorly. Note that
>using stealth is not possible in all cases; good visibility and no cover
>is one of those cases. We have to assume that stealth IS possible to even
>discus this.
>
>Mongoose

In our group the astrally projecting mages have developed certain
tactics that seem to help them with stealth. They tend to enter
the room head first and only far enough to get an eyeball in the room.
They also like to hide in or under couches or chairs. Coming in from
the ceiling or corners of the room is standard for them.

As for an adept there is certainly enough lore about meditating to calm
one emotions to reach a level of tranquility that might be reflected in
ones aura. That would certainly go along with someone who focuses magic
internally to improve the body and minds relationship.

I'd like to get back to my orginal question. I'm not looking for new
powers to spend magic points on but new metamagic abilities for the adept.
A mage has. Centering, Quickening, Dispelling, Shielding, Masking &
Anchoring.

Adepts only have Masking and Shielding officially as metamagic ablility.
So far the idea of shielding seems to be acceptable from the comments
received. Any other ideas for metamagic that adepts might gain?
Message no. 11
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:35:23 -0500
----------
> From: westln@***.EDU
> I'd like to get back to my orginal question. I'm not looking for new
> powers to spend magic points on but new metamagic abilities for the
adept.
> A mage has. Centering, Quickening, Dispelling, Shielding, Masking &
> Anchoring.
>
> Adepts only have Masking and Shielding officially as metamagic ablility.
> So far the idea of shielding seems to be acceptable from the comments
> received. Any other ideas for metamagic that adepts might gain?

Actually, adepts only have Masking if they have astral perception, and
Centering is useful for Physical skills only without an extra power. SR3
allows them to cast wards if they can be astrally active. Personally, I
don't see any others that would be usable by them. Do you let Aspected
Conjurers quicken and anchor spirits? No, because they have no use to
their type of magic.

Metamagic, for the most part, focuses on external processes (centering and
masking being the obvious exceptions). The point of shielding to defend
something (yourself in included, but often something outside yourself),
quickening and anchoring are both designed for spell casters, the
summoning of great forms for conjurors, and the metaplanes for those who
can project to them. I could perhaps see Dispelling becoming part of an
adepts abilities if he could astrally perceive, but not Shielding. Why
should they get shielding? They can't perform a spell defense, which is
what Shielding is based off of. Dispelling, at least, is based off of
astral combat, which some adepts excel at. The newer metamagics are just
variations on the old ones (Ward Phasing, I suspect, is a combination of
Dispelling and Masking), so they shouldn't be in the adept's abilities if
he can't use the base skill.

Adepts are fine, as is. Of the two adepts listed in the back of
Awakenings, only the one who dealt primarily with astral phenomenon had
magic theory... the only character in Awakenings that didn't have Magical
Theory was the kind of adept most people think of when they think adept...
a warrior, pure and simple, no time for that "weird shit" that most
magicians mumble about.

I had an idea at one point, and will likely enforce it for my own
characters, that one's initiate grade could not exceed ones magical
theory. After all, how can one delve into the greater mysteries if one
doesn't even understand the basic theory?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"You fail, Death-Lord! You destroy the instrument, but not its music.
With all your power you have gained only a broken shell."
In that moment, when the harp had been silenced, arose the songs of
birds, the chiming of brooks, the humming of wind through grass and
leaves; and all these voices took up the strands of melody, more beautiful
than before.
-Lloyd Alexander, "The Smith, The Weaver, and the Harper"
Message no. 12
From: Bob Tockley <zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:05:42 +1000
I have no idea why there is so much confusion and speculation over which
adepts (now aspected magicians) have which metamagical abilities, so I'm
going to clear it up (hopefully).

Centering:
All initiates are capable of centering. Physical Adepts (now adepts) are
able to use their centering skill to reduce the penalties to any physical,
non-magical skill (though only for Centering vs. Penalties, as per page 44
of Grimoire 2nd Edition), though they cannot use their centering for
non-magical skills without the Enhanced Centering Power (page 34, same book).
Obviously characters that are incapable of spellcasting cannot use the
Centering vs. Spellcasting rules.

Quickening:
Any sorcery-capable character who can astrally perceive (now all aspected
magicians and full magicians) is capable of Quickening. However, bear in
mind that a character incapable of casting manipulation spells cannot
quicken manipulation spells.

Dispelling:
Any sorcery-capable non-initiated character is now capable of Dispelling
(as per the rules found on page 184 of SR3).

Shielding:
Any initiated magician or aspected magician capable of sorcery is able
to use Shielding using all standard rules.

Masking:
Any initiate is capable of masking his aura. Only initiates that can
astrally perceive can pierce the masking of another initiative (well, duh).

Anchoring:
All initiates who are sorcery-capable and have the ability to astrally
perceive are able to Anchor spells as per standard rules. However,
characters who are not enchanting-capable (ie. sorcerers, conjurers, and
their kin) are unable to use the Enchanting For Additional Effect rules
(page 47, Grimoire 2nd Edition).

Reflective Shielding:
This ability functions in the same way as standard Shielding (see above).

Cleansing:
As of Shadowrun 3rd Edition all magicians are capable of a lesser form of
Cleansing that allows them to erase their astral signature from targets
(see Astral Signatures page 172 of SR3).
The remainder of the Cleansing ability is usable by any sorcery-capable
magician.

Focus Blocking:
Any character capable of astral perception who is sorcery and enchanting
capable is able to block focuses. This means that most aspected magicians
are NOT capable of using Focus Blocking.


Hope that cleared some stuff up. Maybe I joined in at the wrong part of
the thread or something but it looked pretty much like the answers you were
debating...




- ARKHAM
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."
Message no. 13
From: Tomus Cone <brother_1@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 01:38:28 PDT
>I'm looking for new metamagic for adepts...

I'm kinda fond of the idea of reflective shielding. Haven't worked out
how to do it yet.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 14
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:23:23 -0400
>Centering:
> All initiates are capable of centering. Physical Adepts (now adepts) are
>able to use their centering skill to reduce the penalties to any physical,
>non-magical skill (though only for Centering vs. Penalties, as per page 44
>of Grimoire 2nd Edition), though they cannot use their centering for
>non-magical skills without the Enhanced Centering Power (page 34, same book).
> Obviously characters that are incapable of spellcasting cannot use the
>Centering vs. Spellcasting rules.
>
>Quickening:
> Any sorcery-capable character who can astrally perceive (now all aspected
>magicians and full magicians) is capable of Quickening. However, bear in
>mind that a character incapable of casting manipulation spells cannot
>quicken manipulation spells.
>
>Dispelling:
> Any sorcery-capable non-initiated character is now capable of Dispelling
>(as per the rules found on page 184 of SR3).
>
>Shielding:
> Any initiated magician or aspected magician capable of sorcery is able
>to use Shielding using all standard rules.
>
>Masking:
> Any initiate is capable of masking his aura. Only initiates that can
>astrally perceive can pierce the masking of another initiative (well, duh).
>
>Anchoring:
> All initiates who are sorcery-capable and have the ability to astrally
>perceive are able to Anchor spells as per standard rules. However,
>characters who are not enchanting-capable (ie. sorcerers, conjurers, and
>their kin) are unable to use the Enchanting For Additional Effect rules
>(page 47, Grimoire 2nd Edition).
>
>Reflective Shielding:
> This ability functions in the same way as standard Shielding (see above).
>
>Cleansing:
> As of Shadowrun 3rd Edition all magicians are capable of a lesser form of
>Cleansing that allows them to erase their astral signature from targets
>(see Astral Signatures page 172 of SR3).
> The remainder of the Cleansing ability is usable by any sorcery-capable
>magician.
Does an SR3 adept's use of magic leave a signature?
Can he cleanse his own signature?
>
>Focus Blocking:
> Any character capable of astral perception who is sorcery and enchanting
>capable is able to block focuses. This means that most aspected magicians
>are NOT capable of using Focus Blocking.
>
>- ARKHAM
> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste somebody with..."

There is only one phrase in the above which I find unclear.
"Sorcery-capable". In both SR3 & SR2 adepts are capable of a
limited form of sorcery for astral combat assuming they have
astral perception. I assume you mean being able to cast spells
when you say sorcery capable. But an interesting question for
me is what part of sorcery does the SR3 adept or dual natured
being learn and use in astral combat? Since Sorcery for astral
combat to me means the ability to manipulate magic, or possibly
one's aura to defend or attack another being's aura. If astral
combat does involve manipulating one's own aura to defend against
astral combat then might forms of meta magic that are limited
to within one's own aura be learned by an initiated adept?
Possible metamagic that falls into this catagory are shielding
(limited to defending oneself) & reflective shielding( if the
act of reflection occures at the targets aura).

As a side note, warding would tend to indicate that astral perception
alone is enough to start being able to effect the astral plane in a
lasting way and outside of one's own aura.

Another interesting thought: Take distance strike with astral
percption. Does this now add a form of ranged combat to astral
combat?

The original question was seeking the creative input from others
about possible new meta magic abilities that an adept might
develope provided he spent, time and karma pondering and exploring
his unique access to the metaplanes. After all, might not an adept who
speciliazes in somatic magic discover something a full magician might
have missed or not even be capable of. Hermatics might scoff at this
but it's because they haven't thought it thru. Full mages can project,
and spend alot of time doing so. It is only SR3 adepts and dual natured
creatures who have the incentive to explore the effects of being locked
in ones body. Maybe there is an avenue of magic that when pursued by
magicians, capable of project, results in forcing the magician to
project. Sort of like a chemical reaction that forces something to
fall out of solutiuon or maybe the analogy of a pressure cooker is
better. Adepts/dual natured beings might be able to hold more pressure
where a normal magician would pop into astral projection.

My applogies for posting such a long message. You know there is
nothing more dangerous than giving an adept with a little magic
theory and sorcery skill access to those hermatic libraries.

Lorden
Message no. 15
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:02:44 -0700
>Adepts only have Masking and Shielding officially as metamagic ablility.
>So far the idea of shielding seems to be acceptable from the comments
>received. Any other ideas for metamagic that adepts might gain?
>

One of my favorite possibilities for adepts would be if they could
"re-align" their powers.
I've never written rules for this (we probably would never play with
them), but I can see two approaches. Both should involve some sort of
meditative ordeal / test.
One would be allowing adepts to "de-bond" power points. That would
free them up to be spent on anything, just like any unspent magic points.
I think this is potentially unbalancing, and in any case, would be risky;
doing so would require a check for magic loss- if it was failed, the point
was "de-bonded" but LOST.
The other would be "shifting" points among existing powers. A power
could not be taken below rating 1, and I'd suggest only a limited amount
could be shifted (from the adepts starting values); points equal to
initiate grade or something. I like this idea because it allows a more
"mystic feel" for adepts, Making them less "hard wired" than mundanes
with
implants, and more like spell users.

Mongoose
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:54:32 +0200
Mongoose said on 12:02/6 Sep 98,...

> One of my favorite possibilities for adepts would be if they could
> "re-align" their powers.
> I've never written rules for this (we probably would never play with
> them), but I can see two approaches. Both should involve some sort of
> meditative ordeal / test.

There are some rules for this, in one of the editions of the Physical
Adept's Handybook (not sure where you can find a copy, though, now the
Archive is down for the moment). IIRC it involved meditating a certain
amount of time per Magic (or Power) point cost of the ability.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:50:34 -0500
On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:05:42 +1000 Bob Tockley
<zzdeden@****.ASGARD.NET.AU> writes:
>I have no idea why there is so much confusion and speculation over which
>adepts (now aspected magicians) have which metamagical abilities, so I'm
>going to clear it up (hopefully).
<SNIP>
> Hope that cleared some stuff up. Maybe I joined in at the wrong part
of
>the thread or something but it looked pretty much like the answers you
were
>debating...
>
>
>
>
>- ARKHAM
<SNIP>

The confusion came from the question being what metamagic abilities can
Adepts (formerly known as Physical Adepts) use?

D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

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Message no. 18
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:26:41 -0500
On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:54:32 +0200 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Mongoose said on 12:02/6 Sep 98,...
<SNIP change Adept Powers through Intitation>

>There are some rules for this, in one of the editions of the Physical
>Adept's Handybook (not sure where you can find a copy, though, now the
>Archive is down for the moment). IIRC it involved meditating a certain
>amount of time per Magic (or Power) point cost of the ability.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl -
<SNIP Sig>

Oh damn! I forgot I need that ... if some kind soul has a copy (latest
version is 5.0 but any version is fine :), could they please send one my
way (at <alfredo@*****.uh.edu> ... this account won't handle attachments.
[actually since it's an html doc, it should be okay just annoying ...])
I lost my copy in my HD crash and would be really grateful if someone can
help me out ... :)

Thanks,
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
o/` Trideo killed the Video Star ... o/`

_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 19
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 17:57:30 -0700
Mongoose said on 12:02/6 Sep 98,...

> One of my favorite possibilities for adepts would be if they could
> "re-align" their powers.
> I've never written rules for this (we probably would never play with
> them), but I can see two approaches. Both should involve some sort of
> meditative ordeal / test.

There are some rules for this, in one of the editions of the Physical
Adept's Handybook (not sure where you can find a copy, though, now the
Archive is down for the moment). IIRC it involved meditating a certain
amount of time per Magic (or Power) point cost of the ability.

--
Gurth@******.
=================================

I wasn't to fond of those specific rules, because the made it fairly
easy and safe for an adept to completely re-align their powers. Somehow,
they rankled me- I was figuring it would either be a BIG deal to alter
powers (risk of magic loss), or be very limited in effect (max change of
initiate grade in points from "base"). Still, I like the general concept,
and probably drew inspiration from the Adepts Hanybook (group has a bound
copy, actually).

Mongoose
Message no. 20
From: Kaptiv Audienz <G8TWAY@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:19:44 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/1998 12:17:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
westln@***.EDU writes:

> >Cleansing:
> > As of Shadowrun 3rd Edition all magicians are capable of a lesser form
of
> >Cleansing that allows them to erase their astral signature from targets
> >(see Astral Signatures page 172 of SR3).
> > The remainder of the Cleansing ability is usable by any sorcery-capable
> >magician.
> Does an SR3 adept's use of magic leave a signature?
> Can he cleanse his own signature?

As I do not have Awakenings, could someone please illiterate further on this
Metamagical Ability?

As for the latter two questions, I would venture to guess that SR3 magicians
are just as prone to leave a spell signature behind as an SR2 magician is.
Additionally, I would want to say that a magician can cleanse his traces just
as readily as a person with Stealth should be able to attempt to remove any
traces of his actions within a particular environment.
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:57:12 +0200
Mongoose said on 17:57/6 Sep 98,...

> I wasn't to fond of those specific rules, because the made it fairly
> easy and safe for an adept to completely re-align their powers. Somehow,
> they rankled me- I was figuring it would either be a BIG deal to alter
> powers (risk of magic loss), or be very limited in effect (max change of
> initiate grade in points from "base").

You could always use them as a base to build your own house rules for the
same thing off of, like making it harder to change powers (put in a test
somewhere, for example). Although perhaps it'll take just as long to make
up your own set of rules...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It may look to the untrained eye I'm sitting on my arse all day.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:10:54 +0100
And verily, did D. Ghost hastily scribble thusly...
|The confusion came from the question being what metamagic abilities can
|Adepts (formerly known as Physical Adepts) use?

And the correct answer is...
No-one knows (Apart from Steve Kenson and Mike...).
Magic in the Shadows isn't out yet.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 23
From: Dom T-J <phobic@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: SR3 Metamagic for Adepts
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:33:04 +1000
>There is only one phrase in the above which I find unclear.
>"Sorcery-capable". In both SR3 & SR2 adepts are capable of a
>limited form of sorcery for astral combat assuming they have
>astral perception. I assume you mean being able to cast spells
>when you say sorcery capable.

I found Arkham's list impressively clear and concise, actually.
But I don't know if it was relevant to the topic at hand... Nevertheless,
it cleared up a few questions that had been lurking at the back of my skull
for a while. Ta Ark.


Phobic
"He who fears nothing save fear itself. And trolls with clubs."

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