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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:34:45 -0600
David Foster wrote:
/
/ On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, D. Ghost wrote:
/
/ <Zippididooda Snip>
/ ->Why? A normal mirror allows for normal aura symetry (in SR2) and was the
/ -ebassis for my (semi-serious) question. This meant that Astral "Light" is
/ ->reflected by mundane mirrors and if an astral body was composed of that
/ ->Astral Light, the body might be reflected ... Hey! If Astral bodies can
/ ->be reflected by mirrors, then mirrors could take the place of FAB ...

No, please, no more FAB debates ;)

/ Mirrors are physical objects with very little astral presence.
/ Their physical ability to reflect light/images (and hence their abilities
/ to assist a magician in locating an individual and therefore their aura)
/ does not translate directly or indirectly into astral space.

I agree.

The astral component of any physical, non-dual object is immaterial.
It's like a shadow puppet.

Per SR3 mana flows from the metaplanes, through the physical plane,
which in turn projects shadows on the astral plane as it continues it's
course through the astral plane back to the metaplanes. It's easier to
understand if you think of it in two dimensional terms.

Think of the metaplane as a flashlight. Light represents mana. (I
don't know if the metaplanes are actually the source of mana, but
that's where it's coming from.) The physical plane is a
two-dimensional opaque wall. The astral plane is also a
two-dimensional wall on the other side of the physical plane from the
flashlight.

Mana shines through the physical plane. Shadows of the physical plane
are cast on the astral plane. While these shadows can be seen on the
astral plane, they have no more effect on the astral plane then a
shadow puppet has an effect on the wall it's projected on.

On the astral plane a mirror's shadow is just that, a shadow. It
shouldn't be able to reflect astral "light", IMHO.

Also, there really isn't such a thing as astral light, near as I can
tell (again, per SR3).

Mana projects shadows of the physical plane onto the astral plane.
Somehow percieving beings and astral beings can see these shadows. But
I don't think of them as a source of light.

The astral plane is created by life and emotion. Living and dual
natured entities "glow" on the astral plane because their lifeforce
"shines" there. But I view this "glowing" and "shining" as
something
that isn't seen, but felt. IMHO, it isn't like light at all, and can't
be reflected.

Just some thots on the subject.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 2
From: Dom T-J <phobic@**.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 05:02:09 +1000
>The astral plane is created by life and emotion. Living and dual
>natured entities "glow" on the astral plane because their lifeforce
>"shines" there. But I view this "glowing" and "shining"
as something
>that isn't seen, but felt. IMHO, it isn't like light at all, and can't
>be reflected.
>
>Just some thots on the subject.
>
>-David
>--
>"Earn what you have been given."
>--
>email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
>

So let's make a spell... "astral mirror". Turns a mirror into a 'window'
onto the astral so long as it's sustained. Handy for security... Oh,
what, you can't even conceive of something like that? Well, I got a
formula for it right here...

My point is that in SR magic operates largely as a function of the
individual's will... the way one person perceives it is probably gonna be
different from the way any other person does, even if only slightly.
Perhaps for some mages there is 'light' on the astral...
Phobic
"He who fears nothing save fear itself. And trolls with clubs."
Message no. 3
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:09:22 -0700
>The astral plane is created by life and emotion. Living and dual
>natured entities "glow" on the astral plane because their lifeforce
>"shines" there. But I view this "glowing" and "shining"
as something
>that isn't seen, but felt. IMHO, it isn't like light at all, and can't
>be reflected.

Sure, but then why do mirrors work to synchronize auras to cast spells? Of
course, that's a holdover from SR2 ... we haven't seen anything in SR3 on
the subject one way or another as far as I can tell ....

Probably wise of them. I'd throw the mirrors thing out, myself.

>-David
>--
>"Earn what you have been given."
>--
>email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:00:03 -0400
At 05:02 AM 9/5/98 +1000, you wrote:

>My point is that in SR magic operates largely as a function of the
>individual's will... the way one person perceives it is probably gonna be
>different from the way any other person does, even if only slightly.
>Perhaps for some mages there is 'light' on the astral...

Perception will vary from magician to magician. What one may see as an
aura another may smell.

But they still follow the same basic rules and laws, though their
perceptions of those laws and the resultant events may vary.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 5
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:09:21 -0300
Adam Getchell wrote:
>
> >The astral plane is created by life and emotion. Living and dual
> >natured entities "glow" on the astral plane because their lifeforce
> >"shines" there. But I view this "glowing" and
"shining" as something
> >that isn't seen, but felt. IMHO, it isn't like light at all, and can't
> >be reflected.
>
> Sure, but then why do mirrors work to synchronize auras to cast spells? Of
> course, that's a holdover from SR2 ... we haven't seen anything in SR3 on
> the subject one way or another as far as I can tell ....
>
> Probably wise of them. I'd throw the mirrors thing out, myself.


Mirrors work when the mage is on the physical plane, when he must be
seeing the target physically to cast the spell. When the mage goes
astral (either perceiving or projecting), the mirror can't do anything
for him...

Bira
Message no. 6
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:11:24 -0700
> Mirrors work when the mage is on the physical plane, when he must be
>seeing the target physically to cast the spell. When the mage goes
>astral (either perceiving or projecting), the mirror can't do anything
>for him...

Not true, in SR2. You had to synchronize auras a bit to cast a spell (just
like in Earthdawn you get limited "thread sight" to weave a spell ... this
is relevant because magic in ED and SR is related). While synchronizing
auras you were essentially assensing. You could do this through a mirror.

Go back to SR2 and read the long description about Astral space. It
explains this in there.

> Bira

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 7
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:43:26 -0300
Adam Getchell wrote:
>
> > Mirrors work when the mage is on the physical plane, when he must be
> >seeing the target physically to cast the spell. When the mage goes
> >astral (either perceiving or projecting), the mirror can't do anything
> >for him...
>
> Not true, in SR2. You had to synchronize auras a bit to cast a spell (just
> like in Earthdawn you get limited "thread sight" to weave a spell ... this
> is relevant because magic in ED and SR is related). While synchronizing
> auras you were essentially assensing. You could do this through a mirror.
>
> Go back to SR2 and read the long description about Astral space. It
> explains this in there.

Maybe one of the reasons why they updated to SR3... :)

Bira
Message no. 8
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:59:12 -0700
> Maybe one of the reasons why they updated to SR3... :)

Exactly. That's why I was saying I hope they drop the whole mirrors thing
... it's been a problem since First Edition.

> Bira

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu
Message no. 9
From: Daniel McManus <MCMANUS@******.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:22:57 -0400
>>astral (either perceiving or projecting), the mirror can't do anything
>>for him...
>
>Not true, in SR2. You had to synchronize auras a bit to cast a spell (just
>like in Earthdawn you get limited "thread sight" to weave a spell ... this
>is relevant because magic in ED and SR is related). While synchronizing
>auras you were essentially assensing. You could do this through a mirror.
>
>Go back to SR2 and read the long description about Astral space. It
>explains this in there.

Yes, but the whole Astral thing has changed in SR3. There is no grounding,
astral objects can go through living non-astral objects, the description
of Astral space is different in SR3. So, basing anything on a description
in SR2 is, well, baseless.
Message no. 10
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Mirrors and the Astral Plane
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:30:43 -0700
>Yes, but the whole Astral thing has changed in SR3. There is no grounding,
>astral objects can go through living non-astral objects, the description
>of Astral space is different in SR3. So, basing anything on a description
>in SR2 is, well, baseless.

Which is why I limited my comments to SR2, and noted that everything is up
in the air for SR3 ...
--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

Further Reading

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