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Message no. 1
From: Eric Josue <ericj@****************.COM>
Subject: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:56:35 -0600
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I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed this
but is
it possible to still ground spells through active foci? I like the method of
destroying foci now but there isn't anything on grounding spells like in SR2.
What's everyone's take on this?

Eric J

-----------------------------------------
Eric Josue
producer/principal.director

F U S I O N M E D I A G R O U P I N C.
-a new vision in design-
http://www.fusionmediagroup.com

Otaku e-Zine v2 on now...
http://www.otakuezine.com

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><div>I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have
missed this but is it possible to still ground spells through active
foci? I like the method of destroying foci now but there isn't anything
on grounding spells like in SR2. What's everyone's take on this?</div>
<br>
Eric J
<br>

<br>
<tt>-----------------------------------------<br>
Eric Josue<br>
producer/principal.director<br>
<br>
F U S I O N&nbsp; M E D I A&nbsp; G R O U P&nbsp; I N C.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -a new vision in
design-<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.fusionmediagroup.com/";
eudora="autourl">http://www.fusionmediagroup.com<br>;
<br>
</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Otaku
e-Zine v2 on
now...<br>
<font
color="#0000FF">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.otakuezine.com/"; eudora="autourl"><font
color="#0000FF">http://www.otakuezine.com<br>;
</a></font></html>

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Message no. 2
From: Eric Josue <ericj@****************.COM>
Subject: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:23:31 -0600
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed this
but is
it possible to still ground spells through active foci? I like the method of
destroying foci now but there isn't anything on grounding spells like in SR2.
What's everyone's take on this?

Eric J

-----------------------------------------
Eric Josue
producer/principal.director

F U S I O N M E D I A G R O U P I N C.
-a new vision in design-
http://www.fusionmediagroup.com

Otaku e-Zine v2 on now...
http://www.otakuezine.com

--=====================_25294535==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html><div>I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have
missed this but is it possible to still ground spells through active
foci? I like the method of destroying foci now but there isn't anything
on grounding spells like in SR2. What's everyone's take on this?</div>
<br>
Eric J
<br>

<br>
<tt>-----------------------------------------<br>
Eric Josue<br>
producer/principal.director<br>
<br>
F U S I O N&nbsp; M E D I A&nbsp; G R O U P&nbsp; I N C.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -a new vision in
design-<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.fusionmediagroup.com/";
eudora="autourl">http://www.fusionmediagroup.com<br>;
<br>
</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Otaku
e-Zine v2 on
now...<br>
<font
color="#0000FF">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.otakuezine.com/"; eudora="autourl"><font
color="#0000FF">http://www.otakuezine.com<br>;
</a></font></html>

--=====================_25294535==_.ALT--
Message no. 3
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:29:45 +0100
|I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed this
|but is it possible to still ground spells through active foci?

No.

I like the method of
|destroying foci now but there isn't anything on grounding spells like in SR2.
|What's everyone's take on this?

It's been removed. Mainly because of the most hated question on this list...
Can you ground through quickenings...

Asking that question made most people go:

____/|
\ o.O|
=(_)=
U

And say, "Ack!..."

The rest just THWAPPED you into oblivion.

Speaking of THWAPPINGS......

|<html><div>I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have
|missed this but is it possible to still ground spells through active
|foci? I like the method of destroying foci now but there isn't anything
|on grounding spells like in SR2. What's everyone's take on this?</div>
|<br>

You're sending HTML..... Stop it.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 4
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:39:33 -0400
First, off, to join Spike and be a GridSec vigilante, please turn off the
HTML in your mailer. My own mailer, old and crude as it is, barfs on
attachments. It doesn't crash like some people's but before you send
another message to the list, please make sure you aren't sending
HTML-encoded mail.

At 04:56 PM 9/18/98 -0600, you wrote:

>I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed this
>but is
>it possible to still ground spells through active foci? I like the method of
>destroying foci now but there isn't anything on grounding spells like in SR2.
>What's everyone's take on this?

No, in SR3 there are no more groundings. The Astral Plane and the Mundane
plane do not mix really much anymore, so it fits with the revised theory of
magic.

>Eric J

Great, not another one...but now all you folks out there are going to HAVE
TO make sure you spell my name with a "K" to make sure you're referring to
me and not to this new fellow.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:32:57 -0500
From: Eric Josue <ericj@****************.COM>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 6:05 PM

>I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed
>this but is it possible to still ground spells through active foci?

Nope. It's gone (and there was much rejoicing).

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 6
From: John E Pederson <pedersje@******.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:22:28 -0500
Despite multiple replies, I thought I'd reply. So sue me:P

Eric Josue wrote:

> I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed
> this but is it possible to still ground spells through active foci?

Nope.

> I like the method of destroying foci now but there isn't anything on
> grounding spells like in SR2.

That would be because grounding a spell through a dual-natured being
(whether an active focus, manifest spirit, perceiving mage or
dual-natured creature) is not possible in SR3. Although I've not
actually received my book, this is the news that has come down the
grapevine from FASA and from those who playtested and/or have copies
of SR3 in their hot little hands already. As has already been
expounded upon in at least one other post, the previous mechanics and
'real-world' (or as real as the astral plane gets;) justifications and
explanations for spellcasting and grounding were ... ambiguous enough
to cause arguments based on multiple interpretations of the same set
of quotes and rules from the same sourcebook -- one guy even claimed
to have direct insight from Paul Hume on the matter (insight that, of
course, supported his own arguments :P ). Apparently it was simpler to
remove the issue from the game than to re-write astral space in such a
way that the effects of grounding remained possible (and plausible),
while removing the ambiguities that became the root cause of previous
arguments.

> What's everyone's take on this?

Well, it's not the solution that I would have preferred (I rather like
the idea of being able to pull those kinds of stunts, myself, and
would have preferred that FASA re-write the rules in such a way that
grounding a spell remained possible [and supported the way *I* felt on
the matter, but I'd have lived if I wound up on the losing side...]),
but I don't see any reason that someone who really desires the ability
couldn't re-implement spell grounding with a little judicious research
and writing on their own. Especially if they have books (like the
Grimmy) from second edition.

At the same time, I'm happy there's some sort of resolution, and I
also understand that this is the one resolution where neither of the
two groups (we're not counting the ones who simply didn't allow it in
the first place, they're a minority anyway;) can 'I was right; you
were wrong', even if it does stand a chance of pissing someone off
(well, you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of
the people once in a great while...)

BTW, I'm not quite sure what encoding your message was in, but I
received it as a text attachment. When I told the mailer (Netscrape
Messenger; it ain't great, but it works:) to view the attachment
inline (so's I could quote it), it came out garbled (uuencoding,
maybe? *shrug*). And then the next message was garbled. And the
next... Had to close Messenger and re-open it. So, thanks: that's some
of the best laughs I've had of late:)

--
John Pederson otherwise known as Lyle Canthros, shapeshifter-mage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes
convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe -- a
spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we
with our modest powers must feel humble."
--Albert Einstein
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com pedersje@******.rose-hulman.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
"I'm not fifty!" "SPOONMAN!!!" Number Two -- with a bullet!
Message no. 7
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:43:02 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>
> First, off, to join Spike and be a GridSec vigilante, please turn off
the
> HTML in your mailer. My own mailer, old and crude as it is, barfs on
> attachments. It doesn't crash like some people's but before you send
> another message to the list, please make sure you aren't sending
> HTML-encoded mail.

Hell, you're lucky. I got two pieces of blank mail.

Nexx
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:36:43 +0200
According to Eric Josue, at 16:56 on 18 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> I've been reviewing the new magic system. Maybe I might have missed this
> but is
> it possible to still ground spells through active foci? I like the method of
> destroying foci now but there isn't anything on grounding spells like in SR2.
> What's everyone's take on this?

Grounding has been eliminated in SR3 because it's the area about which
FASA received the most questions over the years, so they concluded it was
the most unclear, and the best way to clear it up was to simply remove it
altogether.

I for one will still keep grounding in my campaign, because first of all I
like the idea of being able to cause damage to the physical plane from
astral space, and also for continuity's sake.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Unconsciousness is no excuse.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:50:34 EDT
In a message dated 9/19/1998 6:48:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> Grounding has been eliminated in SR3 because it's the area about which
> FASA received the most questions over the years, so they concluded it was
> the most unclear, and the best way to clear it up was to simply remove it
> altogether.
>
> I for one will still keep grounding in my campaign, because first of all I
> like the idea of being able to cause damage to the physical plane from
> astral space, and also for continuity's sake.

Hey Gurth, here's a fun idea for ya. We're keeping grounding as well, but
we're enlightening the rules, clarifying them a bit (using one of your
suggestions now less IIRC) and then making it a "metamagical talent". Yep, we
liked it too, we just didn't like the confusion everyone *else* seemed to have
:P

-K
Message no. 10
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:28:30 +0200
According to K in the Shadows, at 0:50 on 20 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Hey Gurth, here's a fun idea for ya. We're keeping grounding as well, but
> we're enlightening the rules, clarifying them a bit (using one of your
> suggestions now less IIRC)

Could you refresh my memory as to which suggestion that would be?

> and then making it a "metamagical talent". Yep, we
> liked it too, we just didn't like the confusion everyone *else* seemed to have
> :P

Same here, it looks pretty clear to me, but then again I've been doing
this for years now -- I can see how new players could be overwhelmed by
the rules and interpretations necessary.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Unconsciousness is no excuse.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: The Great Cornholio <ChemPhD2Be@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:44:04 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-19 07:48:37 EDT, gurth@******.NL writes:

<< Grounding has been eliminated in SR3 because it's the area about which
FASA received the most questions over the years, so they concluded it was
the most unclear, and the best way to clear it up was to simply remove it
altogether.

I for one will still keep grounding in my campaign, because first of all I
like the idea of being able to cause damage to the physical plane from
astral space, and also for continuity's sake. >>

I recently purchased my own copy of SR3 and did a thorough examination of most
of the sections in the book. This is the one section I miss the most, and if
I ever play again, I'm playing with the SR2 grounding (of course, with a
little bit of house rules set in.... we made it harder to ground through
things like Power Foci & weapon foci).

Another thing missing (and forgive me if I missed either posts or the section
of the book) is ritual magic. I always made sloppy runners pay by this
method. What a fun way to get back at them. They're having supper and the
local Toxic Hell and suddenly Joyboy the Sam erupts into a fireball.

Plus you've never seen a man loaded to the teeth with explosives get hit with
a fireburst spell because he's got an Armor spell lock. Cracked me up. We
had no trouble getting into the building after that, as most of it was gone
:-)

I don't want to encourage a "how to ground through foci" discussion, so if you
want to see how we got to a workable system, email me.

TGC
Message no. 12
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:26:06 -0400
At 04:44 PM 9-20-98 EDT, you wrote:

>
>Another thing missing (and forgive me if I missed either posts or the section
>of the book) is ritual magic. I always made sloppy runners pay by this
>method. What a fun way to get back at them. They're having supper and the
>local Toxic Hell and suddenly Joyboy the Sam erupts into a fireball.

I noticed that too. I assume (and anybody with actual facts is free to
correct me on this) that MITS will have rules for ritual team magic, and I
hope that it will cover all forms of magic, not just Sorcery. It never
made much sense to me that magicians could combine forces for spellcasting,
but not for conjuring or enchanting.


Starjammer | "Would it help if we sacrificed a
goat?"
starjammer@**********.com | -- Street sam "Crusher" Carlson
to mage
Marietta, GA | Straight Blue, on a really bad day
Message no. 13
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:12:38 +1000
At 16:44 20/09/98 EDT, The Great Cornholio wrote:
>
>Another thing missing (and forgive me if I missed either posts or the section
>of the book) is ritual magic. I always made sloppy runners pay by this
>method. What a fun way to get back at them. They're having supper and the
>local Toxic Hell and suddenly Joyboy the Sam erupts into a fireball.

It'll be in Mits.




Chris Maxfield
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au>
------------------------------------------
Now, my suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we
suppose, but queerer than we can suppose . . . . I suspect that
there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in
any philosophy.
- J B S Haldane, Possible Worlds
----------------------------------------
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:57:31 +0200
According to The Great Cornholio, at 16:44 on 20 Sep 98, the word on the street was...

> Another thing missing (and forgive me if I missed either posts or the section
> of the book) is ritual magic. I always made sloppy runners pay by this
> method. What a fun way to get back at them. They're having supper and the
> local Toxic Hell and suddenly Joyboy the Sam erupts into a fireball.

AFAIK that will be in Magic In The Shadows, as it was considered to be
"advanced magic" by the current SR team at FASA (plus they might have been
needing space for things that get used more often by tthe typical player
group -- in my six years of playing and GMing SR, I think I've seen ritual
magic performed exactly once).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Unconsciousness is no excuse.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:33:57 +1000
At 12:57 21/09/98 +0200, Gurth wrote:
>AFAIK that will be in Magic In The Shadows, as it was considered to be
>"advanced magic" by the current SR team at FASA (plus they might have been
>needing space for things that get used more often by tthe typical player
>group -- in my six years of playing and GMing SR, I think I've seen ritual
>magic performed exactly once).

Curious. In our game it's one of the magicians' most frequently used tools
when we need to search someone out. The chrome boys hit the street with
etiquette, the mages send out swarms of watcher spirits and the shamans
form a ritual sorcery team with some cobbled-together material-link (we do
use the symbolic/sympathetic links optional rule).

Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 16
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] New magic rules & Foci
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:21:25 -0700
:>Another thing missing (and forgive me if I missed either posts or the
section
:>of the book) is ritual magic. I always made sloppy runners pay by this
:>method. What a fun way to get back at them. They're having supper and
the
:>local Toxic Hell and suddenly Joyboy the Sam erupts into a fireball.
:
:I noticed that too. I assume (and anybody with actual facts is free to
:correct me on this) that MITS will have rules for ritual team magic, and
I
:hope that it will cover all forms of magic, not just Sorcery. It never
:made much sense to me that magicians could combine forces for
spellcasting,
:but not for conjuring or enchanting.


I can't say just what MiTS might have, but I agree, I really think
ritual magic should be broad and versatile.
Drawing cues from ritual sorcery, I can't see any direct benefit to
ritual conjuring besides extra services; ritual sorcery does not allow
higher force spells. I think ritual conjuring WOULD allow higher force
spirits, though.

Mongoose

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