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Message no. 1
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3] Regeneration -AND- Optional Metatypes, part 4: Vamp 2.0
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:11:50 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-03 03:12:18 EDT, lobo1@****.COM (John E Pederson)
writes:

My posting below is two part, please have patience.

> Wrongo,

Careful Canthros, people get upset when they see words like this too often.
;)

> Wolfy-boy:) Shapers can't get _cyber_ because it will be regen'd
> out next time they shift into animal form. According to the most recent
> info on shapers (SR Companion), they don't regen in human form (well, PC
> shapers don't. I don't like the idea of giving the NPCs that big an
> advantage over a PC if the only difference is the fact that the NPC is an
> NPC and the PC isn't, so no shaper in my game regens in human form, but I
> also don't bother with the Regen rules as written, though I do use some
> parts of them. While I'm rambling on the subject: anyone else notice that
> the regen rules for Shapeshifters contained in the Companion suggests
> that their Essence rating might actually change depending on which form
> they're in?). In any case, the restriction only applies to cyberware, and
> they don't regen in human form. Bioware isn't noted and could probably be
> implanted while the character was in human form, but it would probably
> need to be cultured, and it might not work while the character was in
> animal form.

Okay, this opens up two things for me. First of all, is the Shaper's "animal
form" different completely than the human form. What I am trying to say is
there a "form switching" or is a "metastizing" from human to animal to
human?
If it's a metastizing, then the physical material of the one is part of the
make up of another. If it's a body switching, then the two become unrelating
in anything but spirit.

As the rules say something about healing the wounds from human form while in
animal form (SR Companion here), then I would tend to think it's a
Metastizing. However, Projecting Magicians gain their wounds from their
Astral Encounters upon their bodies, so perhaps it can still be a "Body
Switch", with the Psychic/Spiritual Aura carrying things over (oops, another
example of Aura being almost "tangible").


The second topic is the region of Regeneration itself. I know that the SR
Companion came up with some new rules for PC Shapers and their regen, but it
is still to much for me. I initially had a group which was Shaper/Vamp heavy
(all it took was one of the latter). I got really ill of the Regen,
regardless of how cool it was for the players and game atmosphere. After
much deliberation, a Massive Series of house rules arose. They are as
follows:

-=-=-=-=-
Regeneration Target Number equals twice the number of boxes on a given wound
monitor (allow for Physically Oriented Stun (like a club or fist) to be
recovered in these cases). The number of successes became the number of
boxes that were recovered in that Action (please note, NOT turn for this).
Going on the idea of "Reverse Engineering" an Author's Descriptions and
General Myth here.

Target Numbers for healing special things.

Combat Magic (Physical) : +1
Combat Magic (Mana) +2
Physical Damage from Drain : +2
Elemental Effect : +4
Weapon Foci : + Foci Rating
Character at Complete Rest : -1 Per Full Minute In Resting State
Wound is Self Inflicted (Purposeful Impalement and the like) : +2
Wound is Poison Based : + Half Power of Poison
Limb Loss (Minor) (Hand, Foot, Fingers, etc) : +2 (Moderate Wound btw)
Limb Loss (Major) (Whole Leg, Whole Arm) : +4 (Serious Wound btw)
Shaper in Animal Form : -2 (the regen is kept in "Human" form, it's just not
as good)
Shaper in a "allied background count zone" : - Background Count (I would say
Cairn, but...)

So if a character were to suffer a Moderate Wound, s/he would role his her
Essence Attribute against a target number of 6. Optionally, if a given
character has a better body than they have essence (okay, so there are not
many "elephant shapers", but...) they may use their Body in place of their
Essence. Also remember that this is the -Animals- attribute, NOT the "human"
one (Sorry, no Troll Shaper Squirrels allowed)

If a Mana Bolt had done the damage, then the target is an 8.
If a Power Bolt had, T# = 7
I a Fireball (combat) had, T# = 11.
If a Weapon Foci (R6) had, T# = 12.

Shaper/Vampire Magicians that Initiate (including PhysAds), gain dice equal
to their Grade of Initiation.
If a PhysAd or PhysMage has the "Enhanced Recovery", then those dice are
included as well in the test.
Those with the Edge of "Quick Healing" gains that bonus as well.
People with ability to Center on Physical Activities -might- be able to apply
Centering Benefits as well.

The above mentioning of "-1 per Full Minute" becomes possible because the
wounds may not heal in a combat situation at all.
All of this also takes into effect that larger damaging wounds incur a much
harder ability to heal. The modifying of the regen times from Turn to Action
indicates a potentially faster recovery rate, but for the larger or more
complicated wounds, I reall do -know- that this is not the case at all.

Remarkably, the "Munchkin" players were weeded out really quickly, as
suddenly they didn't want to play a shaper/vamp any longer. The better, read
as -REAL- players IMHO, kept right on going and actually liked what was
happening. The "realism" had been reaquired.

> --
> -Canthros (Powergamer? Moi?)

I would have to say "Most Definitely."
-Keith
Message no. 2
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Regeneration -AND- Optional Metatypes, part 4: Vamp 2.0
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:37:43 -0500
At 03-Aug-97 wrote J. Keith Henry:

[SNIP some good rule idea]

We are too not very fell with the current regen rules.
This instant thing is a bit over the top.
We use following rule.
Your wounds are not healed at the beginning of the next round, you need
the next round to regen and be fit at the beginning of the second round after
your injurie has occured. Plain and simple.
Stun does not regen, and if you go below your overflowmax, instant death as
always.

>Remarkably, the "Munchkin" players were weeded out really quickly, as
>suddenly they didn't want to play a shaper/vamp any longer. The better, read
>as -REAL- players IMHO, kept right on going and actually liked what was
>happening. The "realism" had been reaquired.

So it does what it sould, go for it.



--
Barbie


==================================================
You can see the earth we`re high here we`re
climbing over sumertowm you can kiss the air we`re
gliding follow me for sumerland no sound no life
no essence we lay enstranged in our curious ways
memories lay beside us but i`m seeing through an
age who i`m through sumerland.

(Fields of the Nephilim-Eilzium-Weil of Sumer)

Message no. 3
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Regeneration -AND- Optional Metatypes, part 4: Vamp 2.0
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:04:32 EDT
On Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:11:50 -0400 "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
writes:

>My posting below is two part, please have patience.


NO! I refuse to have patience, I don't have to, darnit! I'm an American,
I'm entitled to get what I want, right now! :):) Okay, I'll shut up.


>> Wrongo,
>
>Careful Canthros, people get upset when they see words like this too
>often.
> ;)


You would know:) Besides, I put in a smiley:)



<<Okay, this opens up two things for me. First of all, is the Shaper's
"animal form" different completely than the human form. What I am trying
to say is there a "form switching" or is a "metastizing" from human to
animal to human? If it's a metastizing, then the physical material of the
one is part of the make up of another. If it's a body switching, then
the two become unrelating in anything but spirit.>>


I've always assumed that it was more along the lines of being physically
morphed, one body was changed, shifted, turned into the other, but it's
still the same body (even though mass and form has changed). So something
in one body remains in the other. At least, that's how I've always looked
at it.


<<As the rules say something about healing the wounds from human form
while in animal form (SR Companion here), then I would tend to think it's
a Metastizing. However, Projecting Magicians gain their wounds from
their Astral Encounters upon their bodies, so perhaps it can still be a
"Body Switch", with the Psychic/Spiritual Aura carrying things over
(oops, another example of Aura being almost "tangible").>>


Shush, you wouldn't want to disturb Steve:) (alright, that wasn't nice)


<<The second topic is the region of Regeneration itself. I know that the
SR Companion came up with some new rules for PC Shapers and their regen,
but it is still to much for me. I initially had a group which was
Shaper/Vamp heavy (all it took was one of the latter). I got really ill
of the Regen, regardless of how cool it was for the players and game
atmosphere. After much deliberation, a Massive Series of house rules
arose. They are as follows:>>
<rules snipped>


Interesting, might use them myself, but I don't like the dice rolls and
things, it slows things down and, in my game, the players slow down
combat more that enough on their own. Even so, I'll tuck them away and
keep them for future reference, they're certainly well thought out.


>> --
>> -Canthros (Powergamer? Moi?)
>
>I would have to say "Most Definitely."


You know, I'm almost offended:) Almost. The truth is that I really do
manage to keep most of that stuff down, when I'm around. Unfortunately,
my players have a bad tendency to regress when I'm not the GM, since most
of the other people who GM with my group don't have a real good grasp of
power levels (or realism). And I owe most of that to spending about six
months between the first two games I GM'd doing nothing but hanging out
on the list and on Shadowland (the non-Java version will be ready Sept 1
- the same time that I get access to the ability to use a thirty-two bit
Java compatible browser anyway). Powergaming is the least of my worries
most days.


--
-Canthros
I had rather believe all the fables in the legends and the Talmud
and the Alcoran, than that this universal frame is without a mind.
--Francis Bacon
http://members.aol.com/canthros1

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