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Message no. 1
From: K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:59:08 EDT
In a message dated 8/10/1998 4:52:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Nexx3@***.COM writes:

> What if you were to impregnate each hanging strand on the ghillie suit with
a
> harmless form of algae or fungus? On the astral, this would provide sort
of
> a
> cloak, as the humanoid aura would largely masked by the vegetable aura...
> while it wouldn't be perfect, it would likely keep the humanoid aura from
> looking like a paint splash on a hillside covered with dark vegetable
auras.
>
Okay, the only problem with this is that in SR3, the concept of "Living
Barriers" becomes a bit more like "Living Obstacles", and it is something
that
can be overcome. Additionally, Mike and Steve both gave very good
descriptions that I am in complete agreement with.

(the following is an interpretation, not a direct quote)

All things have a "level" or "intensity" to their Aura. Dead things
and those
that are artificial (not manipulated by magic), are the lowest. Standard Life
of a non-sentient, non-structured manner, is the next "brightest" manner.
Living things with major motivations or organization structure (ranging from
complex plants to standard intelligence animals) are the next up. Living
things that are sentient, are next on the radder, as they have drives and
motivations that are yet above the standard of "mere survival". Things that
are magical in nature, having a more direct relatioship (NOT the same as a
direct connectivity) are brighter yet, and therefore more resilient and
vibrant. Those things that are highly magical in nature (active magicians of
all kinds, Dual Nature beings, Active Spells and Enchantments, etc...) are the
brightest things, and as such, are the most "obtrusive" to Astral Invasion.

(end paraphrasement)

so as such Nexx, your Ghillie suit concept is nice, but ATM, even with SR3, it
probably wouldn't work all that well. And just wait until everyone gets a
better grasp on this (including myself) and what will happen to FAB and it's
variations.

(teaser)

FAB won't stop everyone in the astral, if anyone at all. It will definitely
slow them down though...

(end teaser)

-K <ewg>
Message no. 2
From: Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:06:22 EDT
In a message dated 11/08/98 00:00:08 Central Daylight Time, Ereskanti@***.COM
writes:

> so as such Nexx, your Ghillie suit concept is nice, but ATM, even with SR3,
> it
> probably wouldn't work all that well. And just wait until everyone gets a
> better grasp on this (including myself) and what will happen to FAB and
it's
> variations.

Scheiss. Ah, well, it sounded good with SR2 rules, which are all some of us
have to go on, Mr. I-have-SR3-and-you-don't. <g>

> (teaser)
>
> FAB won't stop everyone in the astral, if anyone at all. It will
definitely
> slow them down though...
>
> (end teaser)

You're just evil, K. Wave this thing around at us, daring us to come up to
Indiana and hunt you down, stealing your copy of SR3 until ours come in the
mail which never seems to come and bring anything except for bills and
advertisements for stupid dating services!

Ok, I'm better now.

Nexx the unbalanced
Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 01:24:46 -0400
Once upon a time, K is the Symbol wrote;

>so as such Nexx, your Ghillie suit concept is nice, but ATM, even with
>SR3, it
>probably wouldn't work all that well. And just wait until everyone gets a
>better grasp on this (including myself) and what will happen to FAB and it's
>variations.
>
>(teaser)
>
>FAB won't stop everyone in the astral, if anyone at all. It will definitely
>slow them down though...
>
>(end teaser)

FAB <grrr> bringer of Strain 3 <GRRRRR> urban myth that became reality.
I'm still playing around with stories to justifying its existence.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"Boy, I'm in a bad mood today! Everyone had better steer clear of me! I
hate EVERYBODY! As far as I'm concerned, everyone on the planet can just
drop dead. People are scum.
.....
WELL-L-L? DOESN'T ANYONE WANT TO CHEER ME UP?!?"
-Calvin, Calvin and Hobbes
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:42:46 -0500
>FAB <grrr> bringer of Strain 3 <GRRRRR> urban myth that became reality.
>I'm still playing around with stories to justifying its existence.

I guess I'm missing the significance of this one, MC. Why are you trying to
justify the existence of Strain 3? If you don't mind my asking,
anyway...I'm always curious about things like this.

---
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 13:38:07 -0400
At 12:59 AM 8/11/98 EDT, you wrote:
<SNIPPED>
>Okay, the only problem with this is that in SR3, the concept of "Living
>Barriers" becomes a bit more like "Living Obstacles", and it is
something
that
>can be overcome. Additionally, Mike and Steve both gave very good
>descriptions that I am in complete agreement with.

That would be true if Nexx had proposed that the ghillie suit would have
provided a living barrier. He didn't. Under SR2, at least, his ghillie
suit would be ideal for concealment purposes at least.

I think I understand where you go with the next bit though, about intensity
of aura.

I think you are trying to say that the brighter aura of the human inside
the suit might "shine thru" the less bright aura of the lichen or algea or
chia pet stuff. So that the sniper might still be bright enough to be
seen, regardless of the lichen ghillie suit.

Hmmmmm...I'm going to have to say no. Even dead things, like buildings,
can't be seen through in the astral, thay have enough of a presence that
they block vision. So something that is alive, such as lichen or chia
stuff, would hide the aura of the sniper underneath.

If this isn't what you were thinking or trying to allude to, sorry. As
near as I can tell, Nexx's ghillie suit works both in SR2 and SR3.

Erik the Impatient


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 6
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 18:36:10 -0400
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea

> A> >Okay, the only problem with this is that in SR3, the concept of
"Living
> >Barriers" becomes a bit more like "Living Obstacles", and it is
something
> That would be true if Nexx had proposed that the ghillie suit would have
> provided a living barrier. He didn't. Under SR2, at least, his ghillie
> suit would be ideal for concealment purposes at least.
>
> I think I understand where you go with the next bit though, about intensity
> of aura.
>
> I think you are trying to say that the brighter aura of the human inside
> the suit might "shine thru" the less bright aura of the lichen or algea or
> chia pet stuff. So that the sniper might still be bright enough to be
> seen, regardless of the lichen ghillie suit.
>
> Hmmmmm...I'm going to have to say no. Even dead things, like buildings,
> can't be seen through in the astral, thay have enough of a presence that
> they block vision. So something that is alive, such as lichen or chia
> stuff, would hide the aura of the sniper underneath.

Yes and no. Your aura will extend past that nice suit of milspec
armor, even though the armor itself is opaque on the astral.

In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
the former.)


--Droopy
Message no. 7
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:36:39 -0400
On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Droopy . wrote:

->From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
->Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
->
->In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
->how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
->LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
->that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
->the former.)

If I was running the mage, I'd target the algae with an area
effect combat spell... what could the target number of algae be?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 8
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:09:36 -0400
At 06:36 PM 8/11/98 -0400, you wrote:

>In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
>how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
>LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
>that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
>the former.)

Yup. Though I think a living aura would "constrict" or "contain" a
competing aura even just a bit.

But I know SR3 has changed astral space and I'm not sure of the final
result. It may alter this argument dramatically.

Erik the Impatient


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 9
From: Duncan McNeill-Burton <dmcneill@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:41:55 -0400
Erik J. didst sayeth:

>At 06:36 PM 8/11/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
>>how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
>>LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
>>that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
>>the former.)
>
>Yup. Though I think a living aura would "constrict" or "contain"
a
>competing aura even just a bit.


But the physical body attached to the aura can move the physical component
of the Chia Ghillie suit. It shouldn't matter whether the auras have any
mass and can push each other around.

Later-

Duncan McNeill-Burton
-Tech Priest in Training
-Violent Felon for Hire
-Pipe-wielding Sociopath for Fun
http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~dmcneill
"Your eyes shiver and you grit your teeth,
You've sold you soul now cold blood's how you get relief."
-Ice-T, The Syndicate
Message no. 10
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 16:56:30 -0700
>->In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
>->how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
>->LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
>->that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
>->the former.)
>
> If I was running the mage, I'd target the algae with an area
>effect combat spell... what could the target number of algae be?


Likely quite low, although its never been specified if such spells affect
plants if not physical spells. You might actually need a "sterilize" spell.
More to the point, what would the benefit be? You still would not hit the
person inside any more easily.
The difference between "cover" and "clothing", as far as magic
targeting
and astral perception are concerned, is entirely up to the GM, affair.

Mongoose
Message no. 11
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:07:15 -0400
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Mongoose wrote:

->>->In the case of the ghillie suit, you'd have to determine first of all
->>->how far the aura of the algae extends (ie is it far enough to block
->>->LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
->>->that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
->>->the former.)
->>
->> If I was running the mage, I'd target the algae with an area
->>effect combat spell... what could the target number of algae be?
->
->
-> Likely quite low, although its never been specified if such spells affect
->plants if not physical spells. You might actually need a "sterilize"
spell.
-> More to the point, what would the benefit be? You still would not hit the
->person inside any more easily.
-> The difference between "cover" and "clothing", as far as
magic targeting
->and astral perception are concerned, is entirely up to the GM, affair.

Hit the algae with area-of-effect... and you'll get whoever is
inside the armor without having to "see" their aura.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 12
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:56:27 -0400
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3]Re: Ghillie Suit idea

> ->LOS to your aura.) And secondly, (tying into the sr3 thing) would
> ->that aura be opaque, or would your aura shine through it? (I'd think
> ->the former.)
>
> If I was running the mage, I'd target the algae with an area
> effect combat spell... what could the target number of algae be?

Don't you need LOS to hit something with an AOE spell? I know
you did in 1st ed (still use those magic rules for the most part)


--Droopy

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