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Message no. 1
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Speed vs. Skill (aiming in melee)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:04:39 -0400
Sommers wrote:
>I'm not sure if some people saw what I wrote before, since it was under a
>different topic. So here it is again.

Nope. Must have missed it.

>House Rule:
>
>In melee combat a character can take a simple astion on their phase to
>either aim to attack, counterattack or parry. Each simple action gains a -1
>TN, up to hald of the skill level of the character. This basically invloves
>maneuvering around for position with out throwing any punches. If the
>character is aiming for attack and has to counterattack, he loses the
>aiming, and vice versa.

So melee becomes a simple action? Or are you advocating the use of
multiple phases? So Aim-Aim then Melee? One problem with that is that
if defending yourself breaks your aim, then aiming is only worthwhile
after your opponent has used all their actions. By that time, they're
hurting.

What did you mean by taking simple actions to counterattack and parry?

>This neatly gives an advantage to those with the same skill but higher
>speeds, without changing anything on the other guys side. It still gives an
>advantage to the high speed/low skill character, but not as much. And it
>really is just a small extension of an existing rule.

I'd prefer the reach bonus solution, myself (but I think I like the
skill + pool dice limited by Reaction, physad dice being exempt because
they're *magic*).

James Ojaste
Message no. 2
From: Sommers <sommers@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Speed vs. Skill (aiming in melee)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:52:27 -0400
At 02:04 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:

>So melee becomes a simple action? Or are you advocating the use of
>multiple phases? So Aim-Aim then Melee? One problem with that is that
>if defending yourself breaks your aim, then aiming is only worthwhile
>after your opponent has used all their actions. By that time, they're
>hurting.

Sorry, let me clarify. Melee is a Complex Action. Aiming is a simple
action. I can have two simple actions in a combat phase, so I can spend my
two simple actions aiming. If your concentration is broken, you do lose the
aiming bonus. But, it depends on what you were aiming for. See below. So
yes, it does become a multiple phase kind of thing. Instead of just a
series of I slam him, he slams me exchanges, you think ahead and start to
plan a strategy for the whole combat.

>What did you mean by taking simple actions to counterattack and parry?

What I meant was you spend a simple action to aim. BUT, you have to declare
what kind of aiming you're doing, whether its aiming to attack, aiming to
counterattack, or aiming to parry.

If you spend your two simple actions to aim to attack, you're looking for
an opening to attack. The gamble is that you'll have another complex action
coming up to attack the guy before he gets one to attack you. If you're
attacked before your action, you either have to stand there and take it, or
counterattack and lose the bonus.

If you spend 2 simple actions aiming to counterattack, you're waiting for
the guy to come to you. You knoe that he's going next, so you're waiting
for him. If he then attacks you, he's doing what you expected him to and
you get the bonus. These are your defensive martial arts, where your
opponent is off balance from his attack and you help him along. The only
time you lose the bonus is when you're aiming to counterattack but then
decide to attack on your action.

If you spend 2 simple actions to aim to parry, you just want to defend
yourself. You've gone into a defensive stance, and you're waiting for the
attack. When the other guy attacks, that's what you were waiting for. So
you have an easier time trying to block his blows. The only time you lose
the bonus is when you're aiming to parry and then attack on your action.

>I'd prefer the reach bonus solution, myself (but I think I like the
>skill + pool dice limited by Reaction, physad dice being exempt because
>they're *magic*).

I do give the reach bonus to higher speed people, but also allow aiming. It
even helps people who have slow initiative because they can aim to
counterattack after the first attack that comes in. Comes as a real
surprise to the speed demon when the guys is aiming for the counter.
>James Ojaste
>
>


Sommers
"Hey, this is better than actually getting some work done."
Message no. 3
From: Adam Getchell <acgetchell@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] Speed vs. Skill (aiming in melee)
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:10:17 -0700
>At 02:04 PM 8/14/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry, let me clarify. Melee is a Complex Action. Aiming is a simple
>action. I can have two simple actions in a combat phase, so I can spend my
>two simple actions aiming. If your concentration is broken, you do lose the
>aiming bonus. But, it depends on what you were aiming for. See below. So
>yes, it does become a multiple phase kind of thing. Instead of just a
>series of I slam him, he slams me exchanges, you think ahead and start to
>plan a strategy for the whole combat.

It's an interesting idea.

I don't agree with it because in my martial arts experience the more
skilled fighters don't think ahead of time about what they're going to do.
They don't usually think at all! They're reflexes are trained and honed to
such a degree that if an opening is presented, they automatically take
advantage of it.

The thinking is done before, during training.

My personal experience: when I get ready for TKD contests, I usually train
attacks and counters extensively. That's it. When an opponent does a
certain thing, that triggers a "sight picture" and I instinctively unleash
the combo from there. I've spent a lot of time trying to unlearn the
methodical, slow, thinking method of attack/defense in favor of this sort
of response.

For example, I know that if they come in a certain side, a certain angle,
I'm going to back kick them. When they're come in a different way, I'll
spin hook. If I tried to plan this out ahead of time I'd get nailed while I
was thinking.

Judo contest training is the same way, except your "sight picture" is a
feel of how the opponent's balance is.

This is opposed to firing a gun, where you do actually try to stabilize
your sight picture with your target. Eventually there, too, you want to do
"instinct" point shooting, rather than having to line up the sight with the
target (although the nice folks at Gunsite say they can teach you to draw,
line up, and sqeeze of your first round in 1.2 seconds, average).

Anyways, that's my take on it.

>Sommers

--Adam

acgetchell@*******.edu
"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability in the opponent." --Sun Tzu

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