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Message no. 1
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:02:16 -0700
> I don't know if anyone else has realized this yet but the Hauling
the
>Load rules on page 274 of SR3 are inanely unrealistic.

Yes, I posted some humourous notes about movers passing out on
thier first load a while back.
Hopefully FASA will cook up something short and simple; heres my 2
bits.

Personally, I don't like the whole "stun" idea, becuase it ignores
the biggest factor of hauling a heavy load; you can't move as fast.
Nowhere does your movement get decreased; even if you strain and carry
a large houseplant, you can run just as fast (you might not get far,
but you go much faster than is realistic).
Now, ED handles hauling heavy loads very elgantly and simply; you
reduce dexterity (quickness) by the amount which you are short
strength. This won't translate perfectly into SR, but it's a good
place to start. Especially since it would also reduce combat pools,
and really start to hurt if you were wearing armor (SR3 armor
rules)...
On a related note, injury really ought to dcrease the amount you
can carry. I sprained my wrist goaltending football yesterday, and I
can barely hold my BABY with that hand. An injured leg would not have
as big an effect, but it would reduce movement...
Maybe reduce STR or QK (plyers choice) by total wound modifiers?
Yes, Gramps will be flat on his back after just a minor injury; that's
realistic, IMO.

Mongoose
Message no. 2
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:37:55 -0400
Mongoose wrote:
> > I don't know if anyone else has realized this yet but the Hauling
> the
> >Load rules on page 274 of SR3 are inanely unrealistic.
>
> Yes, I posted some humourous notes about movers passing out on
> thier first load a while back.
> Hopefully FASA will cook up something short and simple; heres my 2
> bits.
[snip]
> Maybe reduce STR or QK (plyers choice) by total wound modifiers?
> Yes, Gramps will be flat on his back after just a minor injury; that's
> realistic, IMO.
>
Well, SR already has a method of handling encumbrance due to excessive
armour - reducing the CP. Why not extend that and start off by dropping
the CP and then when *that* runs out, dropping STR and QCK at the same
time?

When carrying something that heavy, I know I tend to slow down, and you
just can't apply your strength to stuff as your leverage and balance
are usually thrown way off.

Regardless, somebody still has to come up with numbers. I don't think
that it should be quite linear. Complexity doesn't really matter,
because we can always stick it in a chart (but having a formula is nice
so it can be extrapolated).
STR^2 * 10 kg? That would have strong Trolls lifting cars and weak
people a little too weak, though (STR 1: 10kg, STR 10: 1000kg).
STR*(STR+2) * 5 kg? Strengthens weak chars a little, weakens the
trolls (STR 1: 15kg, STR 10: 600kg). Sound OK?

James Ojaste
Message no. 3
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:23:46 -0400
At 12:02 AM 9/1/98 -0700, you wrote:

> Now, ED handles hauling heavy loads very elgantly and simply; you
>reduce dexterity (quickness) by the amount which you are short
>strength. This won't translate perfectly into SR, but it's a good
>place to start. Especially since it would also reduce combat pools,
>and really start to hurt if you were wearing armor (SR3 armor
>rules)...

This would work well.

> On a related note, injury really ought to dcrease the amount you
>can carry. I sprained my wrist goaltending football yesterday, and I

Football has no goaltending. Football is a sport in which 22 brutes pound
upon each other over a air-filled leather "ball" to the enjoyment of
millions of Americans and driving local and the national economy through
associated costs, such as beer, pizza, comfy chairs and divorce lawyers.

>can barely hold my BABY with that hand. An injured leg would not have
>as big an effect, but it would reduce movement...
> Maybe reduce STR or QK (plyers choice) by total wound modifiers?
>Yes, Gramps will be flat on his back after just a minor injury; that's
>realistic, IMO.

I might actually penalize both Attributes. Sprain your ankle; not only are
you unable to put as much weight on that foot, you don't move as fast.
Ever wake up with a major "crick" in your neck so that it's painful if not
impossible to turn your head a particular direction? It doesn't just
affect your neck and head, you suddenly have to alter your normal body
mechanics which slows you down and will cause you to be less able to carry
loads. If for no other reason than you are attempting to protect the
weak/injured area.

Might be cool to use something like this in certain special situations
where normal wound penalties and the like simply aren't appropriate.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 4
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:53:48 -0700
>> Now, ED handles hauling heavy loads very elgantly and simply; you
>>reduce dexterity (quickness) by the amount which you are short
>>strength. This won't translate perfectly into SR, but it's a good
>>place to start. Especially since it would also reduce combat pools,
>>and really start to hurt if you were wearing armor (SR3 armor
>>rules)...
>
>This would work well.

Given a good way to determine "normal" maximum load, yes. The "Str x
(str+2) x 5g" formula James Ojaste came up with would work fairly well.
Even in ED, It does lead to the odd situation of somebody with a high
quickness being able to carry LOTS of weight, though ED restrits you to
twice your normal max. I could see eventually apllying stun at more than
1.5 normla max, as well.


>> On a related note, injury really ought to dcrease the amount you
>>can carry. I sprained my wrist goaltending football yesterday, and I
>
>Football has no goaltending <snip description of US football>

If I'd said "soccer", 1.4 of the list would not know what I meant, and
1/4 would waste time reminding me its football. Half the people I play
with are English, German, or Central American, so it IS football to them.
And we run into each other enough as is. :)

>I might actually penalize both Attributes.

Then pedestrians with serious wounds (moderates for trolls) could not
walk. I meant the player could choose when using the attribute(s); you
could move your full rate, but not carry much, or lift some weight, but
not move. Combat pool need no be affected, as dodge and attack TN's
already go up (in sr3). Melee attack power would not, either; it might
reasonably be, but you will have fewer successes when injured, so the end
effect is the same.


Mongoose

By the way, my wrist is better; guess it was a light physical. (When I
got it, I thought it was stun.)
Message no. 5
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:13:04 -0400
At 11:53 AM 9/1/98 -0700, you wrote:

>>Football has no goaltending <snip description of US football>

It was meant to be slightly amusing...note the mention of divorce lawyers;
don't know how many people caught those subtleties. Oh well.

> If I'd said "soccer", 1.4 of the list would not know what I meant, and
>1/4 would waste time reminding me its football. Half the people I play
>with are English, German, or Central American, so it IS football to them.

Actually it's been my experience that at least Europeans know what soccer
is and accept that's just how we do it over here. BUT I won't go into this
anymore; my feelings on soccer are violent to say the least so I'll keep
them to myself.

> Then pedestrians with serious wounds (moderates for trolls) could not
>walk. I meant the player could choose when using the attribute(s); you
>could move your full rate, but not carry much, or lift some weight, but
>not move. Combat pool need no be affected, as dodge and attack TN's
>already go up (in sr3). Melee attack power would not, either; it might
>reasonably be, but you will have fewer successes when injured, so the end
>effect is the same.

Okay. I could go with this then.

Erik J.


http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
Message no. 6
From: David Foster <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:19:33 -0400
On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Mongoose wrote:

->>I might actually penalize both Attributes.
->
-> Then pedestrians with serious wounds (moderates for trolls) could not
->walk. I meant the player could choose when using the attribute(s); you
->could move your full rate, but not carry much, or lift some weight, but
->not move. Combat pool need no be affected, as dodge and attack TN's
->already go up (in sr3). Melee attack power would not, either; it might
->reasonably be, but you will have fewer successes when injured, so the end
->effect is the same.

Hmmm... .a pedestrian (normal) unable to walk because of a Severe
wound. Lessee... what weapon has a Severe damage code.... an axe? A HMG?
A Sniper rifle? Ok, let's assume a normal pedestrian gets shot with one
of these and lives..... are they gonna get up and walk away? Doubt it.
It sounds like a fair bet to me...

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 7
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:47:57 -0500
----------
> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
> > On a related note, injury really ought to dcrease the amount you
> >can carry. I sprained my wrist goaltending football yesterday, and I
>
> Football has no goaltending. Football is a sport in which 22 brutes
pound
> upon each other over a air-filled leather "ball" to the enjoyment of
> millions of Americans and driving local and the national economy through
> associated costs, such as beer, pizza, comfy chairs and divorce lawyers.

Uhhh, Erik, it isn't to most of the world. Hell, I'm an American and I
call "soccer" football and American Football American Football.

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yeilding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend.
If you pardon, we will mend.
-
So good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
-Puck "A Midsummer Night's Dream"
Message no. 8
From: Steve Collins <einan@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:26:38 -0400
>----------
>> From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
>> > On a related note, injury really ought to dcrease the amount you
>> >can carry. I sprained my wrist goaltending football yesterday, and I
>>
>> Football has no goaltending. Football is a sport in which 22 brutes
>pound
>> upon each other over a air-filled leather "ball" to the enjoyment of
>> millions of Americans and driving local and the national economy through
>> associated costs, such as beer, pizza, comfy chairs and divorce lawyers.
>
>Uhhh, Erik, it isn't to most of the world. Hell, I'm an American and I
>call "soccer" football and American Football American Football.
>

Infidel!!! We should revoke your citizenship and deport you for that.

:)

Steve
Message no. 9
From: "Ubiratan P. Alberton" <ubiratan@**.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Subject: Re: [SR3] The unfit of 2060 [load handling ERATTA idea]
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:22:53 -0300
David Foster wrote:
>
> On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Mongoose wrote:
>
> ->>I might actually penalize both Attributes.
> ->
> -> Then pedestrians with serious wounds (moderates for trolls) could not
> ->walk. I meant the player could choose when using the attribute(s); you
> ->could move your full rate, but not carry much, or lift some weight, but
> ->not move. Combat pool need no be affected, as dodge and attack TN's
> ->already go up (in sr3). Melee attack power would not, either; it might
> ->reasonably be, but you will have fewer successes when injured, so the end
> ->effect is the same.
>
> Hmmm... .a pedestrian (normal) unable to walk because of a Severe
> wound. Lessee... what weapon has a Severe damage code.... an axe? A HMG?
> A Sniper rifle? Ok, let's assume a normal pedestrian gets shot with one
> of these and lives..... are they gonna get up and walk away? Doubt it.
> It sounds like a fair bet to me...

Doesn't Professional Level handles this? It indicates how much damage
the character
is trained to take and still remain combat-funcional... If they take
just that
amount of damage, they run. If they took more, I guess they'd be
incapacitated.

Bira

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