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Message no. 1
From: Shaun Gilroy <shaung@**********.NET>
Subject: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:16:09 -0400
There, now that I have your attention;

How is everyone dealing with the astral presence of non-sentient living
matter (plants and the like). I'm having a lot of trouble determining if
its something astral forms can wisk through, like people, or if it should
be treated as a barrier as it was in SRII.

I haven't been able to find a reference in my BABY one way or the other.
But I get the impression its no longer a barrier.
Message no. 2
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:15:42 +0200
And so it came to happen that Shaun Gilroy wrote:
----------
> There, now that I have your attention;
>
> How is everyone dealing with the astral presence of non-sentient living
> matter (plants and the like). I'm having a lot of trouble determining if
> its something astral forms can wisk through, like people, or if it should
> be treated as a barrier as it was in SRII.
>
> I haven't been able to find a reference in my BABY one way or the other.
> But I get the impression its no longer a barrier.

Yup, seems to me too. It was quite a shock as I found out that astral forms
can now pass through living persons. And it is not that far to assume that
an astral form can pass through living matter in the whole. If there is
nothing that stops you going through humans or dragons (ok, THAT could be a
bit tough as a Draco seems to be dual natured ;o)) why should there be a
prevention from going through "non sentinent" living thingies? Because it
does not think? Because it could not get that "tingle" that you get if an
astral form passes through you? I guess not.
Looks like that the only chance of preventing this is either a bunker where
you conduct your shady Corp-biz under the unpassable earth or a ward. Of
course it is not explicictly stated in Sr3rd. (so fas as I have scanned it)
and we will have to wait till MITS.
Duh, you should have looked at the face of the Mage in my campaign as GM,
who had build his labaratory inside a house that was completly covered with
wild wine in order to be save from spying eyes.
:o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 3
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:32:44 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 03:15 AM 10/6/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Looks like that the only chance of preventing this is either a bunker
where
>you conduct your shady Corp-biz under the unpassable earth or a ward.
Of
>course it is not explicictly stated in Sr3rd. (so fas as I have
scanned it)
>and we will have to wait till MITS.

What about dual natured vegetation? The old "ivy-covered building"
trick, and other living barriers can still work under SR3, as long as
you use living barriers that have an astral presence. :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 4
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:39:43 +0200
And so it came to happen that Paul Gettle wrote:
----------
> At 03:15 AM 10/6/98 +0200, you wrote:
> >Looks like that the only chance of preventing this is either a bunker
> where
> >you conduct your shady Corp-biz under the unpassable earth or a ward.
> Of
> >course it is not explicictly stated in Sr3rd. (so fas as I have
> scanned it)
> >and we will have to wait till MITS.
>
> What about dual natured vegetation? The old "ivy-covered building"
> trick, and other living barriers can still work under SR3, as long as
> you use living barriers that have an astral presence. :)

Hush ugly one, will you? If that gets around to my players...

But than, how long will it take to fully enclose an appertement with astral
active weed?
;o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 5
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:54:00 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 03:39 AM 10/6/98 +0200, Steadfast wrote:
>> What about dual natured vegetation? The old "ivy-covered building"
>> trick, and other living barriers can still work under SR3, as long
as
>> you use living barriers that have an astral presence. :)
>
>Hush ugly one, will you? If that gets around to my players...
>
>But than, how long will it take to fully enclose an appertement with
astral
>active weed?

I doubt you'd be able to go down to the local garden center and get
enough dual natured plant seedlings to really do a good job of it. I
would think that the Security Companies would have a tight hold on
this type of plant, keeping it from getting out to the common
gardener. Sure you might be able to find some dual natured plants on
the general market, but not any of the stuff that gives really good
wall coverage, like ivys, kudzus, and certain other plants.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 6
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:59:12 -0400
Quoting Steadfast (laughingman@*******.DE):
> And so it came to happen that Paul Gettle wrote:
> ----------
> > What about dual natured vegetation? The old "ivy-covered building"
> > trick, and other living barriers can still work under SR3, as long as
> > you use living barriers that have an astral presence. :)
>
> Hush ugly one, will you? If that gets around to my players...
>
> But than, how long will it take to fully enclose an appertement with astral
> active weed?
> ;o)

Not long at all. Here, let me demonstrate:

"Hey, Magus. So, what're you going to do about protecting the safehouse
now that the laws of nature have changed and the old ivy isn't doing the
trick any more?"
"No worries, Sam. I just picked this up from the Exotic Plants
shop downtown." Magus waves a clipping with trefoil-shaped leaves.
"Eh? What's that?"
"Oh, it's Awakened kudzu. They just got a shipment in from the CAS.
It's dual-natured, so it will block out astral travelers, while the old ivy
won't. And the best part is that it grows quickly, so we won't be unprotected
for too long."
"Awakened kudzu!?! Magus, I've heard that stuff is..."
"Don't worry, Sam. I have a PhD from MIT&T, and I know exactly what
I'm doing." Magus kneels down and carefully plants the cutting at the base of
a trellis. "See? Nothing to worry about. Right, Sam?"

"Sam? Where'd you go, chummer?"

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 7
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:22:29 -0400
Quoting Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.COM):
> I doubt you'd be able to go down to the local garden center and get
> enough dual natured plant seedlings to really do a good job of it. I
> would think that the Security Companies would have a tight hold on
> this type of plant, keeping it from getting out to the common
> gardener. Sure you might be able to find some dual natured plants on
> the general market, but not any of the stuff that gives really good
> wall coverage, like ivys, kudzus, and certain other plants.
^^^^^^
Buy it? You don't need to BUY Awakened kudzu, if you're in CAS. If
it's anything like the normal stuff, all you have to do is park your truck on
side of the interstate for a day, then come back and drive away the leafy
green float you'll find in its place :)
As much as they might like to, thet can't even kill off the regular
stuff. Most herbacides it ignores, a few of them make it grow FASTER. I'm
guessing there's no way they'd be able to control possession of the Awakened
version, mainly because they won't be able to make it grow only where they
want it to.
Hey, where do the stats for Awakened Kudzu appear, anyway? I remember
seeing them somewhere...

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 8
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:21:48 -0500
At 09:59 PM 10/5/98 -0400, Sean McCrohan wrote:
>> But than, how long will it take to fully enclose an appertement with astral
>> active weed?
>> ;o)
>
> Not long at all. Here, let me demonstrate:
>
> "Hey, Magus. So, what're you going to do about protecting the
safehouse
>now that the laws of nature have changed and the old ivy isn't doing the
>trick any more?"
> "No worries, Sam. I just picked this up from the Exotic Plants
>shop downtown." Magus waves a clipping with trefoil-shaped leaves.
> "Eh? What's that?"
> "Oh, it's Awakened kudzu. They just got a shipment in from the CAS.
>It's dual-natured, so it will block out astral travelers, while the old ivy
>won't. And the best part is that it grows quickly, so we won't be unprotected
>for too long."
> "Awakened kudzu!?! Magus, I've heard that stuff is..."
> "Don't worry, Sam. I have a PhD from MIT&T, and I know exactly what
>I'm doing." Magus kneels down and carefully plants the cutting at the base of
>a trellis. "See? Nothing to worry about. Right, Sam?"
>
> "Sam? Where'd you go, chummer?"
>

ROFLMAO! Sean, that was good. That was really, really good.

BlueMule
Who needed a good laugh today.
Message no. 9
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:31:40 -0400
Quoting Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.COM):
> I doubt you'd be able to go down to the local garden center and get
> enough dual natured plant seedlings to really do a good job of it. I
> would think that the Security Companies would have a tight hold on
> this type of plant, keeping it from getting out to the common
> gardener. Sure you might be able to find some dual natured plants on
> the general market, but not any of the stuff that gives really good
> wall coverage, like ivys, kudzus, and certain other plants.
>

Mmm. I forgot to mention, even if the security companies control
the seeds, they're still easy to get. They control them so they can USE
them, when people pay them for magical security. It should be pretty
easy for a team of runners who are used to breaking in to high security
areas to just run up to the outside of a building, yank off a few feet
of ivy, and escape. You don't need seeds - a cutting will do just fine.

--Sean


--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 10
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:33:05 -0500
At 10:22 PM 10/5/98 -0400, Sean McCrohan wrote:
> Hey, where do the stats for Awakened Kudzu appear, anyway? I remember
>seeing them somewhere...
>

There was a pretty good thread concerning awakened kudzu here on the list
not too long ago, but I don't remember seeing anything canon about it.

BlueMule
Message no. 11
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:42:57 -0400
Quoting Steven McCormick (stardust@***.NET):
> There was a pretty good thread concerning awakened kudzu here on the list
> not too long ago, but I don't remember seeing anything canon about it.
>

Heh. Being a transplantee to Atlanta (much like the kudzu!),
I feel obliged to be curious about these things. Too bad /I/ don't thrive
as much in the heat and humidity as the Vine That Ate the South does. :)

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 12
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:44:58 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:31 PM 10/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
> Mmm. I forgot to mention, even if the security companies
control
>the seeds, they're still easy to get. They control them so they can
USE
>them, when people pay them for magical security. It should be pretty
>easy for a team of runners who are used to breaking in to high
security
>areas to just run up to the outside of a building, yank off a few
feet
>of ivy, and escape. You don't need seeds - a cutting will do just
fine.

Unless the security companies had their biological research divisions
selectively breed or even genegineer the plants to require a certain
odd fertilizer. Perhaps editing the plant's genome so that the plant
can't produce the amino acid lysene for example. (genegineering
awakened plants is trickier, but not nearly as hard as mucking around
with awakened animals' DNA)

As long as the plants are sprayed with a lysene rich fertilizer once a
month or so, they survive, but without it, they die off. I could
easily see the security companies doing this to protect their market
share in the competetive buisness of astral security. After all, it's
not just runners who could get a cutting so they'd have their own
astral ivy, but the client company, it's employees, competing security
companies, and so on...

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 13
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:38:54 -0500
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:42:57 -0400 Sean McCrohan
<mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU> writes:
>Quoting Steven McCormick (stardust@***.NET):
>> There was a pretty good thread concerning awakened kudzu here on the
list
>> not too long ago, but I don't remember seeing anything canon about it.

> Heh. Being a transplantee to Atlanta (much like the kudzu!),
>I feel obliged to be curious about these things. Too bad /I/ don't
thrive
>as much in the heat and humidity as the Vine That Ate the South does. :)

What about:
Awakened Kudzu
B* Q- S- C- I2 W4 E(6) R1?
*The body of an awakened kudzu is based on the area it covers. To
deteremine the body, determine the area covered by a particular awakened
kudzu and take the square root of it. Awakened kudzu uses vehicle damage
rules.

Powers:
Binding, Immunity to Fire, Immunity to Pathogens, Immunity to Poisons,
Magical Resistance, Regeneration.

Additionally, any severed piece of an awakened kudzu becomes a seperate
awakened kudzu.

That's a pretty scary piece of shrubery, if ya ask me...

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

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Message no. 14
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:23:15 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 8:00:40 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
shaung@**********.NET writes:

> There, now that I have your attention;
>
I snipped your questions about moving through plants and such.

The reason is, the other night Mike, Greg and I had a huge conversation about
"Radicalizing Marijuana", and could it have really cool effects on magicians
or those that are magically capable.

Then of course the concept of those illicit substances that require major
processes suddenly came to mind (such as heroine and crack cocaine). What if
Alchemy was suddenly applied to these things?

-K (who just wants some feedback here for an idea or two)
Message no. 15
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:25:26 EDT
In a message dated 10/5/1998 8:42:58 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
laughingman@*******.DE writes:

>
> > What about dual natured vegetation? The old "ivy-covered building"
> > trick, and other living barriers can still work under SR3, as long as
> > you use living barriers that have an astral presence. :)
>
> Hush ugly one, will you? If that gets around to my players...
>
> But than, how long will it take to fully enclose an appertement with astral
> active weed?
> ;o)

Ya know, for some reason, I seem to recall those "Plant Magics" that were
bouncing around a bit this last summer. Given a Nutrition and other things,
the concept of "how long" becomes "not very fraggin long at all."

-K
Message no. 16
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:57:29 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Shaun Gilroy
> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:16 AM
>
>
> There, now that I have your attention;
>
> How is everyone dealing with the astral presence of
> non-sentient living
> matter (plants and the like). I'm having a lot of trouble
> determining if
> its something astral forms can wisk through, like people,
> or if it should
> be treated as a barrier as it was in SRII.

If it's not astrally active, then it's not astrally present. Dual
natured trees (if there are such things) block astral travel, whereas
normal plants don't.

Therefore wards, spells, dual natured creatures and the like block
astral travel, and everything else can be zoomed right through.

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 17
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:08:30 -0400
On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Shaun Gilroy wrote:

->There, now that I have your attention;
->
->How is everyone dealing with the astral presence of non-sentient living
->matter (plants and the like). I'm having a lot of trouble determining if
->its something astral forms can wisk through, like people, or if it should
->be treated as a barrier as it was in SRII.
->
->I haven't been able to find a reference in my BABY one way or the other.
->But I get the impression its no longer a barrier.

You are correct in that living matter no longer prevents astral
being from moving about. As far as how much this has affected my gaming?
Not much. Only one guy in my group plays a mage (the rest aren't
comfortable with it) and I've terrified him enough times with astral
entities to make him leery of just "popping his astral head through the
wall to take a look". Although, if that IS a problem for you, I'd give
a few suggestions to everyone: Magically active razorvine, magically
active wrapping vines (with the power of Masking), Magically active flying
paranormals (with the Movement power, so they can slow down the mage)...
ok, that's all, have fun with them.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 18
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:43:16 EDT
Greetings!!

While Kudza is very hard to kill, it can be killed. A friend of mine worked
for the state and his job was to go around in a chrmical suit and kill the
kudzu with some really high powered chemicals. He said that sometimes you
could see the plants turn brown before you and die.

I wonder if he was joking...

-Bandit
Message no. 19
From: Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:59:44 -0400
<Snip: Awakened Kudzu>
>Powers:
>Binding, Immunity to Fire, Immunity to Pathogens, Immunity to Poisons,
>Magical Resistance, Regeneration.

What, no engulf?

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 20
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:40:29 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/1998 5:58:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU writes:

>
> If it's not astrally active, then it's not astrally present. Dual
> natured trees (if there are such things) block astral travel, whereas
> normal plants don't.
>
> Therefore wards, spells, dual natured creatures and the like block
> astral travel, and everything else can be zoomed right through.
>
> NightRain.
>
I think that NightRain needs to reread both/all versions of SR a bit more.
Even mundane plant life does interfere with Astral Travel.

As for the rules for penetrating various degrees of "Living Barriers" in the
Astral, those rules I hear are under contention, as there is nothing that I
can find in SR3 itself.

-K
Message no. 21
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:03:38 -0500
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:59:44 -0400 Mike Elkins <Mike_Elkins@*********.COM>
writes:
><Snip: Awakened Kudzu>
>>Powers:
>>Binding, Immunity to Fire, Immunity to Pathogens, Immunity to Poisons,
>>Magical Resistance, Regeneration.

>What, no engulf?

I had it in there but then removed it since the Binding could take care
of that effect ... :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Long hair eliminates the need for barbers" -- Einstein

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Message no. 22
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:47:17 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:40 PM 10/6/98 -0400, K wrote:
>I think that NightRain needs to reread both/all versions of SR a bit
more.
>Even mundane plant life does interfere with Astral Travel.

BBB3, p.173
"Astral forms are unaffected by the physical world, allowing you to
move through solid objects without slowing your movement. Only astral
forms can slow or affect another astral form."

May we have a page reference from the 3rd ed. rules where it says
plants are an exception to this? I've looked and couldn't find it.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
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Message no. 23
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:16:13 EDT
In a message dated 10/6/1998 10:15:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

> BBB3, p.173
> "Astral forms are unaffected by the physical world, allowing you to
> move through solid objects without slowing your movement. Only astral
> forms can slow or affect another astral form."
>
> May we have a page reference from the 3rd ed. rules where it says
> plants are an exception to this? I've looked and couldn't find it.
>
I retract my statement. I cannot find it in the SR3 material. Sorry.

-K
Message no. 24
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:48:14 -0400
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:16 AM 10/7/98 -0400, K wrote:
>> May we have a page reference from the 3rd ed. rules where it says
>> plants are an exception to this? I've looked and couldn't find it.
>>
>I retract my statement. I cannot find it in the SR3 material.
Sorry.

Damn. I was hoping I'd overlooked it somewhere. (Checked both the
Magic Chapter and further on in the Magical Security section of
Running the Shadows, and didn't know where else to look.)

Steve did say that this would be covered in MitS, though, didn't he?

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-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344
Message no. 25
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR3] What about WEED in astral space?
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:01:17 EDT
In a message dated 10/7/1998 1:12:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.COM writes:

>
> Damn. I was hoping I'd overlooked it somewhere. (Checked both the
> Magic Chapter and further on in the Magical Security section of
> Running the Shadows, and didn't know where else to look.)
>
> Steve did say that this would be covered in MitS, though, didn't he?
>
(* the sound of abhorent silence *)

But I think he did mention it, yes.

-K

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