Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: cmd_jackryan@***.net (Phillip Gawlowski)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:45:51 +0000
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just a simple question: Can I keep my CC, MitS etc., as was promised?
Or do I have to re-buy my whole SR library?

Otherwise I will keep SR3 for a while.


- --
Phillip Gawlowski

Bastard Gamemaster from Hell

"We are proud to deliver any round in under 24 hours"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFDO/4dkbmIhbNRDo0RAlsQAJ9clxBkpH5vT0f/B11VSwus59nN7wCdHtac
OJTjHAPDEQVzaq+eVGYtzVI=k8AO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Message no. 2
From: The_Sarge@***.de (MatthÀus_Cebulla)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:55:02 +0200
> Just a simple question: Can I keep my CC, MitS etc., as was promised?

This was NEVER promised! We were promised that we may keep the fluff.
And this you can. The crunch, though... Ditch it.

> Or do I have to re-buy my whole SR library?

No. Not at all. Just ditch the crunch and keep the fluff.
We've got new damage mechanics. New Matrix Rules. New magic rules.
The old rules just won't cut it here without SERIOUS changing.

> Otherwise I will keep SR3 for a while.

*shrugs* Your choice.

> - --
> Phillip Gawlowski

Matthäus
Message no. 3
From: adam_carter@******.net (Adam Carter)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:04:32 -0700
<<
This was NEVER promised! We were promised that we may keep the fluff.
And this you can. The crunch, though... Ditch it.
>>
What about a conversion guide for converting weapons/cyberware/spells/etc.?
Until a 4e version is announced, I'd like to pick up CC and some others.
I'm willing to do some conversion, but I'm not familiar the previous
editions and have no idea if this is feasible or not.
Message no. 4
From: The_Sarge@***.de (MatthÀus_Cebulla)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:10:32 +0200
> What about a conversion guide for converting
> weapons/cyberware/spells/etc.?
> Until a 4e version is announced, I'd like to pick up CC and some others.
> I'm willing to do some conversion, but I'm not familiar the previous
> editions and have no idea if this is feasible or not.

Hmm... If you aren't familiar with the balancing of all this stuff, I
wouldn't recommend it to you. The initative mechanic is different.
There aren't any combat-/karma-/spell-/whatever-pools anymore, so any
equipment giving them is useless.

Weapons use a wholly different damage-code now (But should by far
be the easiest to convert. But also the most useless conversions.).


Magic... Well, it /might/ be quite easy, actually. At least basic
spells. You would have enough to compare to each other, to get the
drain codes right.

Matrix... Eh, no idea. I never really got into any matrix-stuff
during the last editions (Even though I own Virtual Realities.).
Sounds like the biggest thing to change, though.

I think it would be better for you to wait for some of the grognards
(Sorry, guys. *grins*) to have a go at it. The Plastic Warriors, perhaps?
A new NAGEE? The TSS? *looks into a few non-descript directions* ;)

Matthäus
Message no. 5
From: arclight@*********.de (Arclight)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:29:46 +0200
At 16:55 29.09.2005, Matthäus Cebulla wrote:

<snip>

> > Otherwise I will keep SR3 for a while.
>
>*shrugs* Your choice.

Though I still have to get my book to make my final judgement, I doubt that
keeping SR3 is such a bad choice ;)


--
Arclight

Quitters never win, winners never quit,
but those who never quit and never win are idiots
Message no. 6
From: The_Sarge@***.de (MatthÀus_Cebulla)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:03:08 +0200
> Though I still have to get my book to make my final judgement, I doubt
> that keeping SR3 is such a bad choice ;)

Ah, well. SR3 was ditched by my group, because it really wasn't for
most of the players. SR4 though... They are enthusiastic about this. We had
two sessions already, and they are yearning for more. And this speaks
very loud in favour of SR4. At least for me. (As always: It's all IMHO.)

I can see that not all will be happy with SR4 though, yeah.

> --
> Arclight
>
> Quitters never win, winners never quit,
> but those who never quit and never win are idiots


Matthäus
Message no. 7
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:31:59 -0500
>>> Otherwise I will keep SR3 for a while.
>>
>> *shrugs* Your choice.
>
> Though I still have to get my book to make my final judgement, I doubt that
> keeping SR3 is such a bad choice ;)

My suggestion would be to keep SR3 until they at least release a timeline
for the other books to be released.....or publically acknowledge that
they've been named and such....if you're curious as to what they'll be, go
to www.walmart.com and search for shadowrun, it seems that they're allowing
preorders and they're doing it at less cost than most other distributors
Message no. 8
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:34:43 -0500
> Ah, well. SR3 was ditched by my group, because it really wasn't for
> most of the players. SR4 though... They are enthusiastic about this. We had
> two sessions already, and they are yearning for more. And this speaks
> very loud in favour of SR4. At least for me. (As always: It's all IMHO.)

I'm running a group online, and every time someone tries to gripe about SR4
I tell em to come observe.....and within a game session they're willing to
give it a try instead of being die hard opponents of it.....the SR4 system
is quite good.....if they had the magic books out so we can see what our
mages and physads from SR3 are losing in conversion, it'd be better

D
Message no. 9
From: shadowrun@*****.net (Abschalten)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:40:07 -0400
Oh dude, I can pre-order Shadows of Latin America there! I'm all over it!

> My suggestion would be to keep SR3 until they at least release a timeline
> for the other books to be released.....or publically acknowledge that
> they've been named and such....if you're curious as to what they'll be, go
> to www.walmart.com and search for shadowrun, it seems that they're
> allowing
> preorders and they're doing it at less cost than most other distributors
Message no. 10
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:05:49 -0500
> From: Abschalten <shadowrun@*****.net>
> Reply-To: "Shadowrun Discussion <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>"
> <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:40:07 -0400
> To: Shadowrun Discussion <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
> Subject: Re: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
>
> Oh dude, I can pre-order Shadows of Latin America there! I'm all over it!
>
>> My suggestion would be to keep SR3 until they at least release a timeline
>> for the other books to be released.....or publically acknowledge that
>> they've been named and such....if you're curious as to what they'll be, go
>> to www.walmart.com and search for shadowrun, it seems that they're
>> allowing
>> preorders and they're doing it at less cost than most other distributors
>
>
>

You might could do it, but you probably shouldn't seeing as it's not being
released in hardcopy according to srrpg.com
Message no. 11
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:08:20 +0200
According to Adam Carter, on 29-9-05 17:04 the word on the street was...

> What about a conversion guide for converting weapons/cyberware/spells/etc.?
> Until a 4e version is announced, I'd like to pick up CC and some others.
> I'm willing to do some conversion, but I'm not familiar the previous
> editions and have no idea if this is feasible or not.

That would not be too difficult, at least for items that don't have
(many) special rules. For example, assault rifles do 8M in SR3, but
Damage 6P with AP -1 in SR4 -- so all you need to do is exchange one for
the other. You can estimate costs and Availability ratings in a similar
way, by comparing SR3 stats with SR4 ones of items that appear in both
editions.

The only problems may be when you get to equipment that has unique rules
that apply to it. For these, you'll need familiarity with the SR3 rules
as well as the SR4 ones, so you can decide how to change them to work
with the new system.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:12:50 +0200
According to Matthäus Cebulla, on 29-9-05 18:03 the word on the street
was...

> Ah, well. SR3 was ditched by my group, because it really wasn't for
> most of the players. SR4 though... They are enthusiastic about this. We had
> two sessions already, and they are yearning for more. And this speaks
> very loud in favour of SR4. At least for me. (As always: It's all IMHO.)

The one thing that just about everyone in my group said during
playtesting, was that they found SR4 far easier to pick up than SR3. I
have to agree with this myself, although I also still don't really know
whether I really like the new edition -- however, this is a bit academic
because we're playing Deadlands ATM instead of SR. But OTOH, one thing
SR4 did make me think, is that if we're going to go back to SR in
future, I may actually seriously suggest using SRII rules instead of SR3
or 4...

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 13
From: adam@************.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:13:33 -0600
On 29-Sep-05, at 10:40 AM, Abschalten wrote:

> Oh dude, I can pre-order Shadows of Latin America there! I'm all over
> it!

Shadows of Latin America is not going to be given a print release; so
do not pre-order it anywhere, especially from a giant company who has
no clue about the game industry.

Shadows of Latin America is instead going to be a serial release on the
upcoming http://www.holostreets.com site.

Adam
--
Adam Jury
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com
Message no. 14
From: shadowrun@*****.net (Abschalten)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:51:48 -0400
Geez, guys. I know it's not being released. It was a joke. That one went
WAY over everyone's head. :P

> Shadows of Latin America is not going to be given a print release; so do
> not pre-order it anywhere, especially from a giant company who has no clue
> about the game industry.
>
> Shadows of Latin America is instead going to be a serial release on the
> upcoming http://www.holostreets.com site.
>
> Adam
Message no. 15
From: weberm@*******.net (Ubiquitous)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:52:04 -0400
At 11:31 AM 9/29/2005 -0500, you wrote:

>My suggestion would be to keep SR3 until they at least release a timeline
>for the other books to be released.....or publically acknowledge that
>they've been named and such....if you're curious as to what they'll be, go
>to www.walmart.com and search for shadowrun, it seems that they're allowing
>preorders and they're doing it at less cost than most other distributors

WALMART!?!?!
--
"Ted, sweetheart...somebody's left a wicker basket with a little baby in it
on our front doorstep."
"Just leave it out there on the stoop, honey. The cats'll get it."
- Red Meat http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/
Message no. 16
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:19:31 -0500
and they're doing it at less cost than most other distributors
>
> WALMART!?!?!
> --

Aye, that was my reaction....but, less than cover price is less than cover
price, and if they don't deliver when they promised it, you can make with
the walmart way and complain until they give you a partial refund ;)
Message no. 17
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:55:46 +0200
Derek Hyde <derek@***************.com> wrote:
> and they're doing it at less cost than most other
> distributors
> >
> > WALMART!?!?!
> > --
>
> Aye, that was my reaction....but, less than cover price is
> less than cover price, and if they don't deliver when they
> promised it, you can make with the walmart way and complain
> until they give you a partial refund ;)

What do you mean about "partial refund"?

In Denmark they can't even deduct your money until they have shipped the goods, and if you
complain, the CC-company will have to refund you the money while they investigate.

Shopping vie the net is the safest way to shop in Denmark, and you can even return the
goods even after having opened and examined it, and you are entiteled to a full refund
(except S&H).

Lars

Lars
--
http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen l-hansen@*****.tele.dk
Message no. 18
From: derek@***************.com (Derek Hyde)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:20:18 -0500
> What do you mean about "partial refund"?
>
> In Denmark they can't even deduct your money until they have shipped the
> goods, and if you complain, the CC-company will have to refund you the money
> while they investigate.
>
> Shopping vie the net is the safest way to shop in Denmark, and you can even
> return the goods even after having opened and examined it, and you are
> entiteled to a full refund (except S&H).

The promised delivery date was 9.30.05, if I had already ordered it, and it
didn't get here till sometime next week, I could go complain at the local
store, and they'd send it up to have a partial refund issued because they
promised me the book on a certain date, and without sending me any other
notification, delivered later than was promised ;)

(I've a friend that just ordered it from them and never got word saying he
didn't get his copy today, and plans on trying it cause of lack of
information on their part)

D
Message no. 19
From: silvercat@***********.org (Ian Argent)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:37:49 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
[mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com] On Behalf Of Adam Carter
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:05 AM
To: 'Shadowrun Discussion'
Subject: RE: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?

<<
This was NEVER promised! We were promised that we may keep the fluff.
And this you can. The crunch, though... Ditch it.
>>
What about a conversion guide for converting weapons/cyberware/spells/etc.?
Until a 4e version is announced, I'd like to pick up CC and some others.
I'm willing to do some conversion, but I'm not familiar the previous
editions and have no idea if this is feasible or not.


-----reply message-----

Well, I took a quick glance at the rules, and the numbers you end up with
for combat spells are STRAIGHT off the same spell design sequence from SR3.
I suspect converting spells is not going to be too terribly difficult
Message no. 20
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR4: Can I keep my rule books?
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:15:38 +0200
According to Ian Argent, on 5-10-05 00:37 the word on the street was...

> Well, I took a quick glance at the rules, and the numbers you end up with
> for combat spells are STRAIGHT off the same spell design sequence from SR3.
> I suspect converting spells is not going to be too terribly difficult

You'll probably just have to adjust the actual mechanics a bit, but
working out the Drain is pretty much the same as in SR3, just with
slightly different numbers coming out.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours
-> Possibly NAGEE Editor & ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Site: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UB+ P(+) L++ E W++(--) N o? K w-- O
M+ PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about SR4: Can I keep my rule books?, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!