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Message no. 1
From: Tony <Tony@********.COM>
Subject: SR Aliens.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 12:21:43 -0500
Another point I was wondering about... What about aliens? Did the
world discover anything more about them between now, and the year 2057?
Or did it die down as a myth? I would be interested to know what others
have thought about this particular subject. Because my adventures have
never wandered into this realm. But I could see some pretty neat ideas
that could come out of it though.

Tony@********.com
Message no. 2
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:33:44 -0500
> Another point I was wondering about... What about aliens? Did the
> world discover anything more about them between now, and the year 2057?
> Or did it die down as a myth? I would be interested to know what others
> have thought about this particular subject. Because my adventures have
> never wandered into this realm. But I could see some pretty neat ideas
> that could come out of it though.

Take a gander at the page of B&W pics in Dunkelzhan's Secrets.
There some rather interesting/disturbing "photos" there, including one that
looks for all the world like a 1950's era flyin' saucer.

Probably taken by Elvis from the Mothership. :-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com./users/bluewizard
"Klaatu, Varada, Nikto.
Message no. 3
From: Tony <Tony@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:51:18 -0500
David wrote:
>
> Two words, Insect Spirits. They are more than capable of
> filling the role of alien invasion.
>
> And, one could hypothesize that the flow and ebb magic could
> be universal and just about the time a race gets close to
> going stellar, the Horrors pop up and put an end to that
> stage of development.
>
> -David

But would that explain the UFO's or the supposed sightings of aliens
now? In other words, how could you explain the use of "space-craft" by
spirits. Unless you're saying that human-beings have assumed that the
spirits were aliens, and that the UFO sightings are not real.

I think that the point about the horrors poping up to stop the advancing
of space-travel is a pretty good point though.

TOny
Message no. 4
From: Tony <Tony@********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:11:28 -0800
>Tony,
>
>I just realized that I replied to you personally re:Aliens. If you >still
>have what I sent you, could you forward it to the list?

>Thanks,
>-David

Sorry, I cleared my trash this morning, so I no longer have it.
:-(

TOny
Message no. 5
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:33:15 +0000
Steve wrote,

> Take a gander at the page of B&W pics in Dunkelzhan's Secrets.
> There some rather interesting/disturbing "photos" there, including one that
> looks for all the world like a 1950's era flyin' saucer.

Not as disturbing as the apparent dragon skeletons on the surface of
mars.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 6
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:08:50 GMT
Tony writes

> Another point I was wondering about... What about aliens? Did the
> world discover anything more about them between now, and the year 2057?
No information generally speaking.
The only information i recall seeing is the group of NASA photos in
Dunks secrets.

> Or did it die down as a myth? I would be interested to know what others
> have thought about this particular subject. Because my adventures have
> never wandered into this realm. But I could see some pretty neat ideas
> that could come out of it though.
>
Haven't done anything, though technological aliens could be a good
thing to throw at a group used to finding wraiths, bugs or horrors
under every stone, chances are they will assume the telporters or
invisibility or kill (something to scare the pc's) guns or
whatever bit of kit, are Ed magic, and of course they'll be wrong.
However its not exactly normal SR.

Mark
Message no. 7
From: Guido Hölker <guido@******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:52:46 +0100
>Take a gander at the page of B&W pics in Dunkelzhan's Secrets.
>There some rather interesting/disturbing "photos" there, including one that
>looks for all the world like a 1950's era flyin' saucer.

More interesting questions, as aliens most likely will never become a
shadowrunners main subject: What about space habitats and travel? As a firm
believer in today's physics I consider nothing possible beyond the Mars (and
I could imagine that friend Dunkelzahn wanted to make a sport of this last
will, giggeling a lot from wherever-he-may-be-now about the goofballs trying
to track down a flying saucer), but there still should/could be some
habitats in the near space for research and production, maybe even something
on the moon (although I don't see too much reason for this). Any idea or
maybe there is something in a sourcebook I didn't read?
And speaking of Dunkelzahn: Anyone want's to make a bet? I would offer a
sixpack that he is somehow still alive and will show up in a few years (no,
no insider information, plainly a guess).
Message no. 8
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:39:01 GMT
Guido Hoelker writes

> What about space habitats and travel?
its been discussed before but never got very far, it is a lot more
relevant though.

> As a firm
> believer in today's physics I consider nothing possible beyond the Mars
There exist sensible designs for cylindrical 'Rama' sized colonies at
the 'lagrange' ponts, not very detailed and far beyond current tech
to build but.
Likewise the 'magnetic scoop' fusion vessel does offer real life
physics interstellar travel, pass Jupiter fuel up and when you hit
about 2% light speed you can scoop gas out of the interstallar medium
fast enough to dive a fusion drive. Again could be several centuries
before we can build one but it not got ant 'star trek' style tech in
it.


> (and
> I could imagine that friend Dunkelzahn wanted to make a sport of this last
> will, giggeling a lot from wherever-he-may-be-now about the goofballs trying
> to track down a flying saucer),
Oh a lot of people who know are going to enjoy that lot, photo's like
that would be easy enough to fake now.

> but there still should/could be some
> habitats in the near space for research and production,
There are read corp shadowfiles, Ares has a large platform called
Dadalus for zero G manufacture. However the breakup of the USA,
soviet union and the crash of 29 really set SR back. Considering how
long it took 'freedom' to become 'the international space station
alpha' that should start being built next year, this level of space
tech's not too bad. The problem is we need a 'space plane' (like SR
Semibalistic with strapon's NAGRL says can make orbit) as opposed to
a 'space shuttle' hitch is who will pay the supendous development
cost but the tech almost certainly exists now to build it! The Space
Shuttle is built on 25 year old technology!

> maybe even something
> on the moon (although I don't see too much reason for this).
Appart from science there isn't until you start building really big
space stations. Then linear accelerators off the Moon are far more
energy efficient for getting mass into orbit than trying to lift
everything from the Earth. Much lower gravity.

> Any idea or
> maybe there is something in a sourcebook I didn't read?
Read corp shadowfiles.

> And speaking of Dunkelzahn: Anyone want's to make a bet? I would offer a
> sixpack that he is somehow still alive and will show up in a few years (no,
> no insider information, plainly a guess).
>
No i won't take bets but it is ikely he faked it, also likely he
really was got. I wonder if Mike has even bothered deciding on 'the
truth' yet?, i have had requests for investigations from one or two
players and may well (not decided for certain) take the 'several are
correct' approach, i.e. information comes to the PC's as if 'he was
killed', and 'the azzies did it' and 'Harlequin did it' etc, and not
bother deciding which are good hoaxes and which is actually true.

Mark
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:44:06 +0000
|
|Steve wrote,
|
|> Take a gander at the page of B&W pics in Dunkelzhan's Secrets.
|> There some rather interesting/disturbing "photos" there, including one
that
|> looks for all the world like a 1950's era flyin' saucer.
|
|Not as disturbing as the apparent dragon skeletons on the surface of
|mars.

You mean....

THE DRAGONS ARE MARTIANS???????
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ 5++ |
|X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! >*SULK*<|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:05:04 -0800
At 00:33 12/19/96 +0000, Droopy wrote:
>Steve wrote,
>> Take a gander at the page of B&W pics in Dunkelzhan's Secrets.
>> There some rather interesting/disturbing "photos" there, including one
that
>> looks for all the world like a 1950's era flyin' saucer.

>Not as disturbing as the apparent dragon skeletons on the surface of
>mars.

I wasn't terribly sure that was a dragon skeleton; it seemed too vague.
Later I tracked down the Earthdawn rulebook and found that the Eastern
Dragons claim to have come from the stars, though...

--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%
Message no. 11
From: Autumn / Shatterglass <laughingcrow@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.)
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 01:51:36 PST
>I'm pretty sure Dunkelzahn planned the whole thing, and is in hiding
>until the next election.)

That was always what I, and by extension BrightFires, always thought
too....

--Autumn
Message no. 12
From: drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.)
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:42:56 -0500
Autumn / Shatterglass wrote:
>
> >I'm pretty sure Dunkelzahn planned the whole thing, and is in hiding
> >until the next election.)
>
> That was always what I, and by extension BrightFires, always thought
> too....

I don't think so. It is too cliche these days. Let's face it. He's dead.
Of course, this is all IMHO.

Drekhead.
<<.sig temporarily disabled.>>
Message no. 13
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:12:03 +0000
> From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: SR Aliens.

> |Not as disturbing as the apparent dragon skeletons on the surface of
> |mars.
>
> You mean....
>
> THE DRAGONS ARE MARTIANS???????

Not really, just that there appear to be 2 skeletons on the surface
in one of the photos.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 14
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:12:03 +0000
> From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.rgu.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: SR Aliens.

> > I could imagine that friend Dunkelzahn wanted to make a sport of this last
> > will, giggeling a lot from wherever-he-may-be-now about the goofballs trying
> > to track down a flying saucer),
> Oh a lot of people who know are going to enjoy that lot, photo's like
> that would be easy enough to fake now.

It is also equally easy to spot faked photo's if you know what you're
looking for. By that time, techniques on both sides would have
advanced, but I would expect that fewer people would be able to spot
fakes.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 15
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 17:12:03 +0000
> From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
> Subject: Re: SR Aliens.

> I wasn't terribly sure that was a dragon skeleton; it seemed too vague.
> Later I tracked down the Earthdawn rulebook and found that the Eastern
> Dragons claim to have come from the stars, though...

It is somewhat vague, but that was the first reaction of several
people I know.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 16
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 00:29:56 -0800
[snip, big time..]

> > And speaking of Dunkelzahn: Anyone want's to make a bet? I would offer a
> > sixpack that he is somehow still alive and will show up in a few years (no,
> > no insider information, plainly a guess).
> >
> No i won't take bets but it is ikely he faked it, also likely he
> really was got. I wonder if Mike has even bothered deciding on 'the
> truth' yet?, i have had requests for investigations from one or two
> players and may well (not decided for certain) take the 'several are
> correct' approach, i.e. information comes to the PC's as if 'he was
> killed', and 'the azzies did it' and 'Harlequin did it' etc, and not
> bother deciding which are good hoaxes and which is actually true.
>
> Mark
>

That's how I run a lot of MY adventures....I can't count the number of
times that the players have determined the "truth" merely by me picking
one of _their_ suggestions as they talk and try to figure things out..

~Tim
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:14:23 +0100
Tim Cooper said on 0:29/20 Dec 96...

> That's how I run a lot of MY adventures....I can't count the number of
> times that the players have determined the "truth" merely by me picking
> one of _their_ suggestions as they talk and try to figure things out..

One of my favorite tricks as well, especially when I have only the basic
ideas for an adventure. The players are discussing who is after them and
why, and from that I take the bits I like (preferably those they have
semi-discarded) and the adventure can go on again.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And then I realized I had 65,407,413 bytes of stuff in my
C:\Shadowrun directory...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 18
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:14:23 +0100
Guido Hoelker said on 12:52/19 Dec 96...

> More interesting questions, as aliens most likely will never become a
> shadowrunners main subject: What about space habitats and travel? As a firm
> believer in today's physics I consider nothing possible beyond the Mars

Going by Corporate Shadowfiles, the only really important space station
is Zurich-Orbital. However, the opening line of the chapter says it's not
the only and not the largest space station, so there _are_ more. The way I
see it, most (all?) of them are in corporate hands, and since there's very
little info about them at all in SR books that I've read (i.e. nearly all)
you can just make them up as you go along. It should be easy enough to get
stuff up into space to build a station out of -- at least if you have
suborbital airliners already.

There is (again AFAI can remember right now) no mention at all of moon or
Mars bases.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And then I realized I had 65,407,413 bytes of stuff in my
C:\Shadowrun directory...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 19
From: Peter Coxon <coxoff@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 14:10:06 UT
>> More interesting questions, as aliens most likely will never become a
>> shadowrunners main subject: What about space habitats and travel? >>As a
firm
>> believer in today's physics I consider nothing possible beyond the >>Mars

>Going by Corporate Shadowfiles, the only really important space station
>is Zurich-Orbital. However, the opening line of the chapter says it's not
>the only and not the largest space station, so there _are_ more. The way >I
>see it, most (all?) of them are in corporate hands, and since there's very
>little info about them at all in SR books that I've read (i.e. nearly all)
>you can just make them up as you go along. It should be easy enough >to get
>stuff up into space to build a station out of -- at least if you have
>suborbital airliners already.
>
>There is (again AFAI can remember right now) no mention at all of moon >or
>Mars bases.
>
>--
>Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> And then I realized I had 65,407,413 bytes of stuff in my
> C:\Shadowrun directory...
> -> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
>-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

Oh Boy this is sweet..
Hey Gurth remeber Burning Bright? Some point in that Damien Knight offered
Truman and family Transport and accomadation to the DAEDELUS (spelling)
Station from memory it was ares owned and had a Pop of a around 200. (no pg
sorry.)
tim ntoo
Message no. 20
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: SR Aliens.
Date: Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:26:03 +0100
Peter Coxon said on 14:10/23 Dec 96...

> Hey Gurth remeber Burning Bright? Some point in that Damien Knight
> offered Truman and family Transport and accomadation to the DAEDELUS
> (spelling) Station from memory it was ares owned and had a Pop of a
> around 200. (no pg sorry.)

Daedalus is also mentioned in Corp Shadowfiles, page 89, and it's said to
be "massive". Still, from the books, Zurich-Orbital seems to be the only
one that is really important, and even then only because the corporate
hotshots are there.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And a wave of overwhelming doubt turns me to stone...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Further Reading

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