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Message no. 1
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:55:57 -0600
At 13:38 08/06/98 -0500, you wrote:
>What SR books would everyone recommend i read?

This question comes up once every 3 months or so, and is usually subject to
hot debate. I assume you mean novels, of course.

My choices:
The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.

2XS (Nigel Findley): This is real. Street level trash getting dragged into
something far too big for his meager skills. Plus, one of the better books
for decking descriptions.

Dead Air (Jak Koke): Gotta love combat biking. An engaging plot with a
killer twist at the end.

-Adam J
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
"And you know why these (Independant) movies are good? Because they come
from Bumblefuck, America." -- Kevin Smith.
Message no. 2
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:21:29 -0400
On 8 Jun 98, at 12:55, Adam J wrote:

> My choices:
> The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
> most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.

Actually, they were written by Robert Charette, but I agree they are
great as an introduction to Shadowrun. That triology pretty well
covers most of the elements of Shadowrun.

> 2XS (Nigel Findley): This is real. Street level trash getting dragged
> into something far too big for his meager skills. Plus, one of the better
> books for decking descriptions.

Agreed. I like all of Nigel Findley's stuff, but 2Xs is my favorite.

> Dead Air (Jak Koke): Gotta love combat biking. An engaging plot with a
> killer twist at the end.

I like that one too.

Another one of my favorites was Changeling. (Author's name escapes
me). Very good look at the social aspects of goblinization, and its
effects on those who have to go through it.


Books to stay away from (IMHO):
Streets of Blood (boring...)
Striper Assassin
Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun wrapper.)
(Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 3
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:22:19 -0400
Adam J wrote:
>
> At 13:38 08/06/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >What SR books would everyone recommend i read?
>
> This question comes up once every 3 months or so, and is usually subject to
> hot debate. I assume you mean novels, of course.
>
> My choices:
> The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
> most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.

The Secrets of Power trilogy was written by Robert Charette, Adam...
(And Jett promptly does "Dance of the Dopehats" to celebrate the fact
that she caught the Great AdamJ in an error...Jett then proceeds to trip
on the rug while dancing, bounce off the wall like a pinball, and land
flat on her face). As far as that trilogy was concerned, I found that
the first book was the best, t he second so-so and the third not nearly
as good as either of the others. However, Never Trust an Elf, an
offshoot, of the trilogy, was pretty good, too. Kham was one of my
favorite characters. By the other authors? I have to agree that the
sequel to 2XS (which I've been unable to find), House of the Sun, was
good as well. Nigel Findley is one of the best SR novel writers. Case in
point, my fave novel, Shadowplay. The anthology, Into the Shadows, was
good too, if you can find it.

-- Jett

<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"Remember, it IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you."

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 4
From: Jett <zmjett@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:30:12 -0400
Tim Kerby wrote:

>
> Another one of my favorites was Changeling. (Author's name escapes
> me). Very good look at the social aspects of goblinization, and its
> effects on those who have to go through it.

* Jett gets up from her comfy chair and strolls over to the bookcase.
"Hmm...Chris Kubasik. I've heard people say this one sucked, but I
rather liked it."

I can also recommend Lucifer Deck by Lisa Smedman. It's a pretty good
look at life on the streets, and a shaman discovering her powers. Plus,
the trid news angle...


> Books to stay away from (IMHO):


> Striper Assassin

Ditto. I HATE the present tense narrative. I always have. Who Hunts the
Hunter was another one in the "Tikki" series to avoid. I couldn't get
into Fade to Black, either. Nyx Smith just isn't one of my favorite
authors, I guess.


> Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun wrapper.)
> (Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )

You're right. I agree. I didn't even bother to finish it.


-- Jett
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>

"Remember, it IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you."

http://www.scifi-fantasy.com/~zmjett/shadow.htm
Message no. 5
From: Tim Kerby <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:40:06 -0400
On 8 Jun 98, at 16:30, Jett wrote:

> Tim Kerby wrote:
>
> >
> > Another one of my favorites was Changeling. (Author's name escapes
> > me). Very good look at the social aspects of goblinization, and its
> > effects on those who have to go through it.
>
> * Jett gets up from her comfy chair and strolls over to the bookcase.
> "Hmm...Chris Kubasik. I've heard people say this one sucked, but I rather
> liked it."

As I said, so did I. Probably mostly because it was so original.

> I can also recommend Lucifer Deck by Lisa Smedman. It's a pretty good look
> at life on the streets, and a shaman discovering her powers. Plus, the
> trid news angle...

Yep. Much better than her second book.

> > Books to stay away from (IMHO):
>
>
> > Striper Assassin
>
> Ditto. I HATE the present tense narrative. I always have. Who Hunts the
> Hunter was another one in the "Tikki" series to avoid. I couldn't get into
> Fade to Black, either. Nyx Smith just isn't one of my favorite authors, I
> guess.

Oh yeah, forgot about that one. Stupidest ending, and what the hell
where Minx and Manx (or whatever their names were). Definite creative
license there.

> > Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun
wrapper.)
> > (Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )
>
> You're right. I agree. I didn't even bother to finish it.

Me either. That and Streets of Blood were the only two books I never
finished. Damn, they were painful.

Wow. I think I've found a soulmate. :)

--


=================================================================
- Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
Message no. 6
From: Bruce Ford <shaman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:55:22 -0600
On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Adam J wrote:

> At 13:38 08/06/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >What SR books would everyone recommend i read?
>
> This question comes up once every 3 months or so, and is usually subject to
> hot debate. I assume you mean novels, of course.
>
> My choices:
> The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
> most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.

I agree that these are among the best, IMO for SR novels, but they were
written by Robert Charette.

Bruce.
Message no. 7
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 17:26:24 -0400
At 03:21 PM 6/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On 8 Jun 98, at 12:55, Adam J wrote:
>
>> My choices:
>> The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
>> most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.

Those books were okay. Good introduction into the world of SR though.

>> 2XS (Nigel Findley): This is real. Street level trash getting dragged
>> into something far too big for his meager skills. Plus, one of the better
>> books for decking descriptions.

Nigel was a pretty good writer. His style of writing, plus the fact he had
as his main character that totally mundane detective (I want to say Dirk
Montgomerey for some odd reason), gave his writing a level of suspense
sadly lacking in most of the other novels.

>> Dead Air (Jak Koke): Gotta love combat biking. An engaging plot with a
>> killer twist at the end.

Haven't bought it yet, mainly because I don't have a big interest in combat
biking. The excerpts I've read seem to be pretty good though.

Other books I think are good:

Into the Shadows (I think) which is the first SR anthology.
The Dragonheart Trilogy, if only because you want to know what happened to
the Big D. It's epic, and there are parts and things I don't like, but for
a $6 "pulp" novel it's pretty good.
Burning Bright by Tom Dowd. One of the best SR novels. It's a bit dated,
considering it deals with the beginning of the Bug City plot which is a few
years old now, but still a very good read.
Technobabel by Steve Kenson. As with Dowd, a writer that really
understands the mechanics and "overworld" of SR can really make a
difference. Charrette and Koke and Stackpole may be better writers than
Steve, but he understands the world far far more intimately. And it shows.
Plus, I like his relatively clean writing style.


>Books to stay away from (IMHO):
>Streets of Blood (boring...)

Wasn't that one of the Sergeant/Gasgoine books? Never bothered to read it,
and their Black Madonna novel did nothing but piss me off. Blowing up
centuries old historic monuments those fuckers...

>Striper Assassin

Never bothered.

>Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun wrapper.)
>(Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )

Yeah, lot's of agreement. It was, after all, supposed to be the end to a
trilogy that would be an official SR-ED crossover. I think I read the book
in a few hours it was so lightweight.

I'd also add Never Trust an Elf (didn't like Kham, which meant I wasn't
likely to enjoy the whole book).

Also, was it Lisa Smedman that wrote that recent novel that took place down
in Aztlan? I want to call it Blood Sport. Too many lucky breaks and
strange, unlikely occurences all at once ruined it for me. It was like, oh
really, the blood mages want her? Gee, really...

Also, Headhunters wasn't too smoking. Not horrible, and some of the
events/characters were cool. But not the best SR novel out there. I'd
call it middling; if you've got the money to burn, pick it up. Otherwise,
don't bother.

And to bring it back around to the original topic this spawned from, I
wouldn't honestly waste your money on Wolf & Raven unless you've got it to
burn. Sure, Kid Stealth is a badass. But the lack of any real connection
to the game of SR makes it extremely painful for me to read, since I keep
saying "Hey! That isn't supposed to happen that way in SR!" But then
again, the horrible military tactics used in Starship Troopers was very
jarring to me also and marred an otherwise fun movie.

Enough from me, back to the wage slave gig...

Erik J.


Resepected Elders Relaxation Resort, President of Operations
and Director of Activities

"Hey, how about a game of first edition using only the Blue Book?"
Message no. 8
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 15:44:48 -0600
At 15:21 08/06/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On 8 Jun 98, at 12:55, Adam J wrote:
>
>> My choices:
>> The Secrets of Power Trilogy (Tom Dowd): The first 3 SR novels, and the
>> most formative pieces of lit for SR, IMO.
>
>Actually, they were written by Robert Charette, but I agree they are
>great as an introduction to Shadowrun. That triology pretty well
>covers most of the elements of Shadowrun.

Ack! Me bad! Sorry Robert, wherever the heck you are.. >:)

And I'll add in a big "Me too" for Striper Assassin sucking. Very little
of that book made me think "Wow, cool.", most of it was "God, this
shapeshifter is a characterless character."

Also, I'll add that the Dragonheart Trilogy got progressively worse, IMO.
The first book was good, the second was a little less so, and the third
just left me thinking "Well, it tied up all the holes in the plot. Too bad
it wasn't all that interesting". And having none of Jane-in-the-Box's
decking described Really grated on me.

Then again, I never was much for the high power stuff, so take the above
with a grain of salt.

-Adam
-
http://www.interware.it/users/adamj \ fro@***.ab.ca \ ICQ# 2350330
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ FreeRPG Webring \ TSS Productions
The Shadowrun Supplemental \ SR Archive Co-Maintainer \ RPGA Reviwer
"And you know why these (Independant) movies are good? Because they come
from Bumblefuck, America." -- Kevin Smith.
Message no. 9
From: Craig S Dohmen <dohmen@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 18:54:46 -0400
[...]
> Agreed. I like all of Nigel Findley's stuff, but 2Xs is my favorite.
[...]
> Another one of my favorites was Changeling. (Author's name escapes
> me). Very good look at the social aspects of goblinization, and its
> effects on those who have to go through it.
[...]
> Books to stay away from (IMHO):
> Streets of Blood (boring...)
> Striper Assassin
> Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun wrapper.)
> (Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )

I've seen a lot of people say nearly the same thing about all these books,
so I must be some kind of mutant because I have nearly opposite opinions
from everyone else in the world. :-b

I didn't like 2XS, despised Changeling, liked Streets of Blood (if that's
the Jack the Ripper book). Striper Assassin and WWE were merely OK, but
still about 10 times better than Changeling. All IMO, of course.

--Craig, "Three posts in one day? What's the occasion?"



>
> --
>
>
> =================================================================
> - Tim Kerby - drekhead@***.net - ICQ-UIN 2883757 -
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Reality is the only obstacle to happiness." - Unknown
> =================================================================
>
Message no. 10
From: Danyel N Woods <9604801@********.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:01:39 +1200
Quoth Craig S Dohmen (1055 09-05-98):

<<SLICE>>
>I've seen a lot of people say nearly the same thing about all these
books,
>so I must be some kind of mutant because I have nearly opposite
opinions
>from everyone else in the world. :-b

>I didn't like 2XS,

Heretic! :-)
Dirk Montgomery is my favourite SR 'hero'. He's flawed fallible,
low-power...human. I can identify with the guy, which is the point.

>despised Changeling, liked Streets of Blood (if that's
>the Jack the Ripper book).

Never even seen Changeling. Streets of Blood...see below.

> Striper Assassin and WWE were merely OK, but
>still about 10 times better than Changeling. All IMO, of course.

To whoever started this thread (my delete key got stuck), I can only
speak to what I've read, but my own SR shelf includes:
* Nigel Findley: '2XS', 'Lone Wolf', 'Shadowplay' - loved all of them.
DEFINITE MUST-HAVES for any SR player, especially for the nasty
implications of the "rediscovered tech" in 'Shadowplay'.
* Nyx Smith: 'Fade to Black' - blah, blah. Having read 'Who Hunts the
Hunter?' as well, I have to ask why Smith persists with only relating
the sub-plots to the main one at the end, where it becomes a real What
The F***? 'Fade to Black' is okay, but it's no great loss either way.
'Who Hunts the Hunter?' I don't own it, and don't want to: I wish
I'd never picked it up.
'Steel Rain' - I loved it! I *definitely* recommend it for
Machiko's samurai outlook, and how the yakuza keep their districts under
control.
* Gascoigne/Sargent: 'Streets of Blood' - it's not *too* bad, but the
Quarter-Pounder I had that night was more satisfying.
* Mel Odom: 'Preying for Keeps' - this one's excellent. I *strongly*
recommend this one.
* Robert Charette: 'Just Compensation' - middle-fair, but the UCAS/CAS
border tension? Puh-lease.
* Unknown author: 'Shadowboxer' - it's not *too* bad, but it's very
WTF? If you have Cyberpirates, I'd recommend it; if you don't...well,
if you get desperate.
'Never Trust an Elf' - not bad; I'd recommend it, but it's no great
loss if you can't get it.

Danyel Woods
9604801@********.ac.nz
'Are you deliberately trying to drive me insane?'
'The universe is already mad. Anything else would be
redundant.'
Message no. 11
From: Phil Levis <pal@**.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 21:22:41 -0400
I've personally never liked any of the Shadowrun novels; I find that they
just don't match up to cyberpunk of a more literary bent. I read 'em
occasionally to keep up on plotlines, but ever since I read Snow Crash
immediately after the first book of the Dragon's Heart Trilogy....

I personally find Stephensen, Gibson, et. al. far more helpful than, and
more probably to germinate ideas than the SR novels.


Phil
Message no. 12
From: David Mezerette <dame0007@****.UNI-SB.DE>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 08:39:15 +0200
On Mon, 8 Jun 1998, Craig S Dohmen wrote:

> [...]
> > Agreed. I like all of Nigel Findley's stuff, but 2Xs is my favorite.
> [...]
> > Another one of my favorites was Changeling. (Author's name escapes
> > me). Very good look at the social aspects of goblinization, and its
> > effects on those who have to go through it.
> [...]
> > Books to stay away from (IMHO):
> > Streets of Blood (boring...)
> > Striper Assassin
> > Worlds Without End (It's an Earthdawn book, with a Shadowrun wrapper.)
> > (Boy, will that last comment spark debate.... :) )
>
> I've seen a lot of people say nearly the same thing about all these books,
> so I must be some kind of mutant because I have nearly opposite opinions
> from everyone else in the world. :-b
>
> I didn't like 2XS, despised Changeling, liked Streets of Blood (if that's
> the Jack the Ripper book). Striper Assassin and WWE were merely OK, but
> still about 10 times better than Changeling. All IMO, of course.
>

Why do we care ?
It's no great litterature (we have a name for those kind of novels in
France: "roman de gare" (litterally: "train station novel), means it's
the kinda thing you read while travelling since there's nothing else to
do)
Just use those books for some NPC/contacts ideas, and to have an idea of
the "official" SR atmosphere. Then I guess there are as many differences
in the books as in playing styles of the people on this list, so, in
doubt, read them all and make yours whatever you find interesting in them.

ChYlD
Message no. 13
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:26:41 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Craig S Dohmen
>
> I've seen a lot of people say nearly the same thing about
> all these books,
> so I must be some kind of mutant because I have nearly
> opposite opinions
> from everyone else in the world. :-b
>
> I didn't like 2XS, despised Changeling, liked Streets of
> Blood (if that's
> the Jack the Ripper book). Striper Assassin and WWE were
> merely OK, but
> still about 10 times better than Changeling. All IMO, of course.

You are not alone. Except for not liking 2XS you have described me,
so...

ME TOO!!!

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947
Message no. 14
From: NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: SR Books (Was Re: Wolf and Raven....)
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 21:26:39 +1000
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Tim Kerby

> > * Jett gets up from her comfy chair and strolls over to
> the bookcase.
> > "Hmm...Chris Kubasik. I've heard people say this one
> sucked, but I rather
> > liked it."
>
> As I said, so did I. Probably mostly because it was so original.

That is the reason that I didn't like it. I always thought that it
was so predictable and not particularly interesting. To me it sort of
fit a stereotype, admittedly not of a downtrodden Troll (this not
really being a stereotype), but just of some downtrodden person doing
something and changing the world. I especially don't like the fact it
was able to be done when no one else in the world could do it, and all
of the people trying were more capable. Strange that people see things
so differently isn't it? Oh well, if we were all the same, then
things would be boring :)

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, |
| and whatever happens, you will not be missed |
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nightrain.home.ml.org

EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947

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