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Message no. 1
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: SR Combat (Something borrowed)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:06:21 -0600
If you don't think SR has enough difference between full-defense and
normal combat how borrowing a bit from R. Talsorian/Hero:

Full-Dodge: As full defense plus half Quickness (round down, minimum of
1) is added to the attacker's Target number as if it were a reach bonus.

Block: As full defense plus half Strength (round down, minimum of 1) is
added the body resistance test.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

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Message no. 2
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Combat (Something borrowed)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:54:39 EST
In a message dated 12/16/1998 2:14:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.COM writes:

>
> Full-Dodge: As full defense plus half Quickness (round down, minimum of
> 1) is added to the attacker's Target number as if it were a reach bonus.
>
> Block: As full defense plus half Strength (round down, minimum of 1) is
> added the body resistance test.
>
Now I have to admit, under certain circumstances, these do seem nice...

-K
Message no. 3
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: SR Combat (Something borrowed)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:00:01 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, K in the Shadows wrote:
/
/ In a message dated 12/16/1998 2:14:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
/ dghost@****.COM writes:
/
/ >
/ > Full-Dodge: As full defense plus half Quickness (round down, minimum of
/ > 1) is added to the attacker's Target number as if it were a reach bonus.
/ >
/ > Block: As full defense plus half Strength (round down, minimum of 1) is
/ > added the body resistance test.
/
/ Now I have to admit, under certain circumstances, these do seem nice...

There's a small problem. The act of defending oneself in melee combat
allready has dodging and blocking factored into it.

If you are a skilled martial artist and you defend yourself from an
attack you may be either blocking or dodging depending on you art. And
if you're blocking it may either be a soft or a hard block, again
depending on your art.

Instead of going into detail Shadowrun abstracted this into one
maneuver, Full Defense.

And, Quickness is allready factored in because it's part of the Combat
Pool equation.

And, sorry :), Strength really isn't a factor when blocking. Precision
(skill) determines whether or not you block successfully.

Nice try though :) Problems arise whenever you try to make Shadowrun's
system more specific. IMHO the only way to do it is to go all the way
and re-write Shadowrun's skill system entirely.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 4
From: Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Combat (Something borrowed)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:56:11 -0600
:> Full-Dodge: As full defense plus half Quickness (round down, minimum
of
:> 1) is added to the attacker's Target number as if it were a reach
bonus.
:>

OOF- this makes melee damage WAY to easy to avoid. A quickness of 4
is low, for a runner, and 10+ is not unheard of. And have fun trying to
hurt those air elementals....
The best way to "dodge" is just to stay out of reach... quickness is
quite handy for that.

:> Block: As full defense plus half Strength (round down, minimum of 1)
is
:> added the body resistance test.

Strength is the governing attributte for all melee combat skills. As
such it has a signifigant impact on how many dice you roll in melee, and
hance on how much dmage you take if you loose.

Mongoose
Message no. 5
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: SR Combat (Something borrowed)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:45:27 -0600
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:00:01 -0700 David Buehrer
<dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG> writes:
>For the mere cost of a Thaum, K in the Shadows wrote:
>/ In a message dated 12/16/1998 2:14:17 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>/ dghost@****.COM writes:
>/ > Full-Dodge: As full defense plus half Quickness (round down,
minimum of
>/ > 1) is added to the attacker's Target number as if it were a reach
bonus.
>/ >
>/ > Block: As full defense plus half Strength (round down, minimum of
1) is
>/ > added the body resistance test.

>/ Now I have to admit, under certain circumstances, these do seem
nice...
>
>There's a small problem. The act of defending oneself in melee combat
>allready has dodging and blocking factored into it.

Yea I know ... to some degree. The block or dodge is usually not
all-out, however ...

>If you are a skilled martial artist and you defend yourself from an
>attack you may be either blocking or dodging depending on you art. And
>if you're blocking it may either be a soft or a hard block, again
>depending on your art.

Or, depending on your art, you could be doing all of the above. :)

>Instead of going into detail Shadowrun abstracted this into one
>maneuver, Full Defense.
>
>And, Quickness is allready factored in because it's part of the Combat
>Pool equation.

Yes, but how much of your Quickness? Isn't this just your capability to
do the moves gracefully (while the skill lets you know the moves and do
the well)? I would think that the Combat Pool does not factor in your
ability to get the hell away. :)

>And, sorry :), Strength really isn't a factor when blocking. Precision
>(skill) determines whether or not you block successfully.

I know ... I was actually using it for a degree of toughness (I didn't
want to increase body by 50% so I replaced it with Strength ...)

>Nice try though :) Problems arise whenever you try to make Shadowrun's
>system more specific. IMHO the only way to do it is to go all the way
>and re-write Shadowrun's skill system entirely.

Actually, I wasn't really trying to make the rules more specific, I was
trying to make Full Defense more advantageous (I forgot who complained
about it) and while doing so, saw two distinct systems for the two
distinct defenses ... You could just use the Full Dodge inplace of Full
Defense and, IMO, it should be okay ... (Though, through cyber/bioware,
as usual, you can get some nasty extremes.)

Btw, David, weren't you the one who suggested Initiation for Mundane
folks? I had an idea in the car which I haven't played with really or
even fully thought out... What if you treated your Martial Arts skill as
an Initiation Grade? (IOW, Unarmed combat would represent belts White
through Just-before-black, and the Martial arts skill would represent
belts black and up.)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"Coffee without caffeine is like sex without the spanking." -- Cupid
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Further Reading

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Thwap!