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Message no. 1
From: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:07:33 +1000
Hey everyone!

Check out http://www.srrpg.com

FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

Also, "The Man-Machine Interface" looks like a top supplement :-).

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
ICQ: 177734389 | MSN: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au | AIM/Y!: DamionMilliken
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------

PS: April fools? ;-)
Message no. 2
From: chris@*******.com (Chris Maxfield)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:46:20 +1000
Brilliant. Just brilliant. :-)

Records show that at 11:07 PM on Thursday 1/04/2004 AEDT, Damion Milliken
advised:
>Hey everyone!
>
>Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
>FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
>Also, "The Man-Machine Interface" looks like a top supplement :-).
Message no. 3
From: frontendchaos@**********.com (Jim Montgomery)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:20:06 -0500
> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
> Also, "The Man-Machine Interface" looks like a top supplement :-).

ROFL =)

Jim
Message no. 4
From: shane@**************.freeserve.co.uk (Shane Mclean)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:36:32 +0100
> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

For just a second when I loaded the page...... :-S


Shane
Message no. 5
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:31:40 -0800
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:36:32 +0100
"Shane Mclean" <shane@**************.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Check out http://www.srrpg.com
> >
> > FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
> For just a second when I loaded the page...... :-S

How much of the limited resoruces available to make new SR stuff has been
diverted to this project? Now, I have been aware that the basic SR game is
really showing it's age, but I hope this isn't at the expense of us ever
seeing another of the already promised supplements. However, my gaming group
might just go for it.

Probably, If this thing ever comes out, I'd go for a BRP like adaption with
fixed hit points and a few other tweaks. Hmmm. I'll bet you could cobble D20
with a condition monitor, even.
--Anders
Message no. 6
From: arclight@*********.de (Arclight)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 19:39:38 +0200
At 19:31 01.04.2004, Anders Swenson wrote:

<snip>

>How much of the limited resoruces available to make new SR stuff has been
>diverted to this project?

An evening *bg*



--
Arclight

Quitters never win, winners never quit,
but those who never quit and never win are idiots
Message no. 7
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:41:27 +0200
From: "Damion Milliken" <DamionMilliken@*****.com.au>
> Hey everyone!

Hi Damion

> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

At first I waw realy horrified. This can't be true... I was sure they
promised never... This is the end...

> Also, "The Man-Machine Interface" looks like a top supplement :-).

That sort of gave it away, but I didn't read this until I had actually
clicked all the links, and found a few other hints.

> PS: April fools? ;-)

Thanks, then best so far.

Lars
Message no. 8
From: adamj@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:47:28 -0500
On 1-Apr-04, at 12:31 PM, Anders Swenson wrote:

> How much of the limited resoruces available to make new SR stuff has
> been
> diverted to this project? Now, I have been aware that the basic SR
> game is
> really showing it's age, but I hope this isn't at the expense of us
> ever
> seeing another of the already promised supplements

About 15 minutes of Rob's time to write a "press release", and a couple
hours of my unpaid time over a few nights to put all the graphics
together.

This industry is about _making things that people find fun_ - and
that's what we just did. Things like this generate buzz and goodwill.
People saw, people laughed, people voiced their support of the company
and our products.

Adam
Message no. 9
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0100
At 02:07 PM 4/1/2004, Damion wrote:
>Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
>FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

No fair! It's after midday!!!! (Well it is here anyway :-) )

Mr Jury, you're a cruel cruel man... but you had me until I reread Mr
Milliken's message and spotted the Post Scriptum...


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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Message no. 10
From: justin@***********.net (Justin)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:15:42 -0500
Lone Eagle wrote:

> At 02:07 PM 4/1/2004, Damion wrote:
>
>> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>>
>> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
>
> No fair! It's after midday!!!! (Well it is here anyway :-) )
>

They don't stop ad noon in the US.

Which is a shame. Because I really like the "No, you're the fool" aspect
of it.
Message no. 11
From: anders@**********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:44:12 -0800
On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 20:02:46 +0100
Lone Eagle <loneeagle@********.co.uk> wrote:

> Mr Jury, you're a cruel cruel man... but you had me until I reread Mr
> Milliken's message and spotted the Post Scriptum...
>
Missed that part. Good, you got me!
--Anders
Message no. 12
From: allura@***********.org (Joanna Hurley)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:05:27 -0500
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
> [mailto:shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com] On Behalf Of
> Damion Milliken

> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.


Well...I have to admit my first thought upon seeing the title & the
followup replies was "Oh, it's an April Fool's Joke" <g>.

Part of the reason I was sure it was a joke is b/c I actually kicked
around whether or not you could do SR with D20. I really don't think
it'd work at all. Of course, there's the whole aspect of SR being a
skill-based system, and D20 is a level based one. Then there's the
magic system - completely different. You could, theoretically, cast
spells all day long in SR. That's never happening in D20. The two
systems are just too different. A lot of what makes the world
interesting is reflected in the rules, and some of it is created by the
rules.

Allura

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Message no. 13
From: velocity219e@********.com (NeoN)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 21:18:55 +0100
Damn, thats got to be the best april fools I've had yet ;)

I too was kind of horrified for a moment, thinking damn could that
work? replace all my books? then it started reminding me of the D&D
netbook of carnal knowledge the pics just gave it away but it was so
well done, kudos to Damion for posting that :)

Matt B

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 01/04/2004 at 21:15 Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:

>From: "Damion Milliken" <DamionMilliken@*****.com.au>
>> Hey everyone!
>
>Hi Damion
>
>> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>>
>> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
>At first I waw realy horrified. This can't be true... I was sure they
>promised never... This is the end...
>
>> Also, "The Man-Machine Interface" looks like a top supplement :-).
>
>That sort of gave it away, but I didn't read this until I had actually
>clicked all the links, and found a few other hints.
>
>> PS: April fools? ;-)
>
>Thanks, then best so far.
>
>Lars


Over 90% of this email is recycled materials, which in turn can be recycled themselves
Message no. 14
From: The_Sarge@***.de (MatthÀus_Cebulla)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:14:26 +0200
> Mr Jury, you're a cruel cruel man... but you had me until I reread Mr
> Milliken's message and spotted the Post Scriptum...

Just click on the 'see you at GenCon' link. *g*

Matthäus
hopefully with correct systime this time. ;-)
Message no. 15
From: sinabian@*******.com (James Mick)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 17:23:58 -0500
You motherfragger! Damn, that was low!


From: &quot;Damion Milliken&quot; &lt;DamionMilliken@*****.com.au&gt;
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion &lt;shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com&gt;
To: &quot;Shadowrun Mailing List &quot;
&lt;shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com&gt;
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:07:33 +1000

Hey everyone!

Check out http://www.srrpg.com

FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

Also, &quot;The Man-Machine Interface&quot; looks like a top supplement :-).

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
ICQ: 177734389 | MSN: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au | AIM/Y!: DamionMilliken
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------

PS: April fools? ;-)

_________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: graht1@*******.com (David Buehrer)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:27:28 -0700
>From: "Joanna Hurley" <allura@***********.org>
>
>Well...I have to admit my first thought upon seeing the title & the
>followup replies was "Oh, it's an April Fool's Joke" <g>.
>
>Part of the reason I was sure it was a joke is b/c I actually kicked
>around whether or not you could do SR with D20. I really don't think
>it'd work at all. Of course, there's the whole aspect of SR being a
>skill-based system, and D20 is a level based one. Then there's the
>magic system - completely different. You could, theoretically, cast
>spells all day long in SR. That's never happening in D20. The two
>systems are just too different. A lot of what makes the world
>interesting is reflected in the rules, and some of it is created by the
>rules.

Actually, D20's *combat* is level based. It has plenty of skills. And
after checking out Guardians of Order's d20 version of Silver Age Sentinals
(which makes some subtle changes/additions to combat) I feel that a pretty
credible D20 version of Shadowrun could be done. True, the D20 rules would
change the flavor of the game, but it would be a good business decision for
Wizkids to make a D20 version in addition to the D6 system they're using
now.

Don't write off the idea of D20 Shadowrun. It might happen ;)

-Graht

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Message no. 17
From: mc23@**********.com (MC23)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:15:50 -0500
On Apr 1, 2004, at 8:07 AM, Damion Milliken wrote:

> Hey everyone!
>
> Check out http://www.srrpg.com
>
> FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.

I can't even get the damn page to load.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power,
personal names more so and they were guarded very closely.
To protect themselves, they answered to another name,
because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 18
From: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:20:09 +1000
MC23 writes:

> > Check out http://www.srrpg.com
> >
> > FanPro have released a D20 compatible version of Shadowrun.
>
> I can't even get the damn page to load.

Try http://www.shadowrunrpg.com - I think the other address is simply an alias and I've
occasionally had trouble getting it to load.

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
ICQ: 177734389 | MSN: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au | AIM/Y!: DamionMilliken
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
Message no. 19
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:53:06 +0200
From: "David Buehrer" <graht1@*******.com>
>
> Actually, D20's *combat* is level based. It has plenty of skills. And
> after checking out Guardians of Order's d20 version of Silver Age
Sentinals
> (which makes some subtle changes/additions to combat) I feel that a pretty
> credible D20 version of Shadowrun could be done.

Check out Legends of the Five Rings and Star Wars, and you will see two
games where the game has changed so much that (many) old players refuse to
change to the new system, and new players play it in a whole different way.
These are two systems where rules does affect the way the game is played.

> True, the D20 rules would
> change the flavor of the game, but it would be a good business decision
for
> Wizkids to make a D20 version in addition to the D6 system they're using
> now.

No it wouldn't. GURPS Shadowrun or Shadowrun Basic Role Playing would both
be better ideas. Don't ever mention a d20 version again...

> Don't write off the idea of D20 Shadowrun. It might happen ;)

Hopefully not...

Lars
Message no. 20
From: oukami@**.rr.com (Patrick Bierlein)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 02:00:41 -0500
Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
> From: "David Buehrer" <graht1@*******.com>
>
>>Actually, D20's *combat* is level based. It has plenty of skills. And
>>after checking out Guardians of Order's d20 version of Silver Age
> Sentinals
>>(which makes some subtle changes/additions to combat) I feel that a pretty
>>credible D20 version of Shadowrun could be done.
>
>
> Check out Legends of the Five Rings and Star Wars, and you will see two
> games where the game has changed so much that (many) old players refuse to
> change to the new system, and new players play it in a whole different way.
> These are two systems where rules does affect the way the game is played.
>

I agree. My friends and I play 7th Sea (Rules are basically that of
Lot5R, though Pirates instead of Samurai), and the difference between
that and Swashbuckler (d20 version of 7S) is so much that in our opinion
when they converted over to d20 it lost a lot of what made 7th Sea, 7th
Sea. Mainly it was the "Drama" aspect of role playing and earning Drama
Dice, but the Roll & Keep system also made it what it was. Some games
just aren't made to be converted over to d20, it ruins them enough that
it's not what it should be, or even once was.

IMHO, and it's only my 2 cents, Shadowrun should never be converted. To
refer to an old cliche, "If it's not broken, don't try to fix it."
From a business standpoint I can't say if this will change in the
future or not, but I hope not.
Message no. 21
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:56:10 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Thursday 01 April 2004 21:02 the word on the
street was...

> Mr Jury, you're a cruel cruel man... but you had me until I reread Mr
> Milliken's message and spotted the Post Scriptum...

I'm amazed so many people thought it was real... When I read Rob's
announcement to check the SR site, I did -- and then immediately went back
to my mailer to look at the date on the message :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 22
From: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:13:12 +1000
Gurth writes:

> I'm amazed so many people thought it was real... When I read Rob's
> announcement to check the SR site, I did -- and then immediately went back
> to my mailer to look at the date on the message :)

Which message of Rob's was that? Am I not getting all the list mail?

--
Damion Milliken E-Mail: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
ICQ: 177734389 | MSN: DamionMilliken@*****.com.au | AIM/Y!: DamionMilliken
---------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------
Message no. 23
From: bull@*********.com (Bull)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:50:12 -0500
>
>Well...I have to admit my first thought upon seeing the title & the
>followup replies was "Oh, it's an April Fool's Joke" <g>.
>
>Part of the reason I was sure it was a joke is b/c I actually kicked
>around whether or not you could do SR with D20. I really don't think
>it'd work at all. Of course, there's the whole aspect of SR being a
>skill-based system, and D20 is a level based one. Then there's the
>magic system - completely different. You could, theoretically, cast
>spells all day long in SR. That's never happening in D20. The two
>systems are just too different. A lot of what makes the world
>interesting is reflected in the rules, and some of it is created by the
>rules.
>
>Allura

Actually, i's sorta doable. I've, at one point or another during my
personal "Quest" to figure out a way to "fix" d20's flaws, I've
pondered
what to do to make an SR D20 game (Not that I'd ever want to see it, let
alone actually play it. I love the Shadowrun system on the whole).

First off, you'd almost have to do it as OGL. There's a few too many
necessary changes, I think, to keep the D20 logo. Once you go OGL, you
have a hell of a lot more freedom to muck with the system and mechanics.

You'd have to create a whole new magic system, and there's a bunch of other
additions that would need worked in. It's doable, but not easy, and IMO,
not worth it. It might sell some copies initially, but I don't think it
would really pull in much, if any, new blood, and would quite possibly turn
off long time players enough to leave the game. At the very least,
considering FanPro's current scheduling difficulties (WHen's SoE coming out
again? ;)), I don;t wanna see anything else on their plate ;]

Bull
Message no. 24
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:38:59 +0200
According to Damion Milliken, on Friday 02 April 2004 14:13 the word on the
street was...

> Which message of Rob's was that? Am I not getting all the list mail?

The SR freelancer list; otherwise, the whole April Fools thing probably
would have passed me by :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 25
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:47:50 +0200
According to Bull, on Thursday 01 April 2004 22:50 the word on the street
was...

> Actually, i's sorta doable. I've, at one point or another during my
> personal "Quest" to figure out a way to "fix" d20's flaws, I've
pondered
> what to do to make an SR D20 game

IMHO, one of the things d20 needs is for the dice system to work even when
there are large differences in the modifiers on both sides of an opposed
roll. What I mean is that, as it is, if you've got a +15 bonus there's no
way in hell you're going to fail simple tasks; fine, you say -- but what
about the other way around? Little or no modifiers and a difficult task
mean you have no hope in hell, beyond rolling a natural 20, or taking 20
of course (not advisable in combat).

So what my group did for our last campaign was port over the dice-rolling
system from Earthdawn (http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/geen20/no20.html; don't
pay too much attention to the Dutch logo, as I never got round to doing up
an English version :) that at least helps in this respect. IMHO for SR
d20, something similar would be necessary, if for no other reason than to
keep the current feel of everyone being able to do (almost) everything.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 26
From: pixelonpicnic@*******.com (Niels Sønderborg)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:46:59 +0200
The day (hopefully NEVER) a d20 version of Shadowrun is released, is the day
where I will stop supporting what ever company that has it's hands on the
Shadowrun concept. I'll burn all my Shadowrun books, become a monk and never
ever again play a roleplaying game of any sort in fear of the d20 effect is
contagious ...

The joke was cruel, though have a hella funny presentation. Please dont EVER
joke around with that again ;)


A VERY concerned dane, who had his scare of the century :)

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Message no. 27
From: satinner@*********.net (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 06:27:17 -0800 (PST)
--- Niels Sønderborg <pixelonpicnic@*******.com>
wrote:
> The day (hopefully NEVER) a d20 version of Shadowrun
> is released, is the day
> where I will stop supporting what ever company that
> has it's hands on the
> Shadowrun concept. I'll burn all my Shadowrun books,
> become a monk and never
> ever again play a roleplaying game of any sort in
> fear of the d20 effect is
> contagious ...

Grow up. ;-)

Seriously, why the horrible fear of d20?
Were you bitten by an Open Gaming Lisence as a child?
It's just a game. They're just rules.
It's not a global conspiracy to take over the world.

You're essentially saying "I only like McDonalds
Cheeseburgers. If McDonalds ever adds shrimp to their
menu, I will vomit up every cheeseburger I ever ate,
burn down a McDonalds, and never eat food again."

When I put it that way is it easier to see how
irrational that line of thought is?

- Tinner
OeGm
Message no. 28
From: pixelonpicnic@*******.com (Niels Sønderborg)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:35:31 +0200
Ok, ok, that might have been an exaggerated responce, though I have a slight
fear of the D20 effect. Too many good games and their concepts have fallen
under it and I feel that is a shame. I like to see the multitude of game
systems there is, but fear that d20 is an attempt to make everything the
same, except for the world you are wandering. Monopoly ... No, I wouldnt
stop playing SR or burn my books. I just feel that if Shadowrun went d20 it
would die like so many other systems have when they went d20. I feel sorrow
everytime I see another system in a d20 format.
Why should everything be the same? Why isnt there room in this damn world
for differences and variety?

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Message no. 29
From: satinner@*********.net (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:43:27 -0800 (PST)
--- Niels Sønderborg <pixelonpicnic@*******.com>
wrote:
> I just feel that
> if Shadowrun went d20 it
> would die like so many other systems have when they
> went d20. I feel sorrow
> everytime I see another system in a d20 format.
> Why should everything be the same? Why isnt there
> room in this damn world
> for differences and variety?

I agree there should be, and IMO is room for a
multitude of different systems.
I still question your point that "If SR went d20 it
would die like so many other systems have"
What systems preceisely have died when ported to d20?
Sure, a few have suffered, but AFAIK, that's due to
more factors than switching to d20.
Pinnacle's Deadlands RPG took a big hit after
switching to d20, but there's a host of factors there,
like the fact that they sold the company to morons,
and then had to buy it back for more than they sold it
for to save anything.

Can you really name a single game that has died from
going d20???

- Tinner
OeGm
Message no. 30
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:07:35 +0200
According to Steven A. Tinner, on Saturday 03 April 2004 17:43 the word on
the street was...

> What systems preceisely have died when ported to d20?

AD&D? ;)

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Those who ignore history are doomed to keep liking crappy dance
covers of great songs.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 31
From: zebulingod@*******.net (zebulingod)
Subject: SR D20 Released! (;
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:40:42 -0800
Steven A. Tinner wrote on Saturday, April 03, 2004 6:27 AM:
>
> Grow up. ;-)
>
> Seriously, why the horrible fear of d20?
> Were you bitten by an Open Gaming Lisence as a child?
> It's just a game. They're just rules.
> It's not a global conspiracy to take over the world.
>
> You're essentially saying "I only like McDonalds
> Cheeseburgers. If McDonalds ever adds shrimp to their menu, I
> will vomit up every cheeseburger I ever ate, burn down a
> McDonalds, and never eat food again."
>
> When I put it that way is it easier to see how irrational
> that line of thought is?
>

I wa bitten by an OGL when I was a child. I have never been able to look at
an OGL since. I have nightmares, cold sweats, and I cower in fear whenever
one is around. Please don't make me cower in fear. I have a hard enough time
going into a gaming shop as it is.

(;

Zebulin

"Per Ardua ad Astra"
Message no. 32
From: satinner@*********.net (Steven A. Tinner)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:46:28 -0800 (PST)
> > What systems preceisely have died when ported to
> d20?
>
> AD&D? ;)

Ironically enough, even that argument fails! ;-)
WotC has been re-releasing TONS of the old AD&D
material as PDF's and selling them online.
Granted, there's not a lot of new material coming out,
but the product is still selling well, and the company
certainly hasn't died. ;-)

- Tinner
OEGM
Message no. 33
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:50:39 +0200
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <satinner@*********.net>
>
> Can you really name a single game that has died from
> going d20???

On a personal level: L5R and Star Wars died, they are not the same games
they used to be. With the change of rules, the feel of teh game changed so
much that I and many others I have talked to feel that it is a whole
different game.

So those two game shas died.

Lars
Message no. 34
From: alex.case@*******.net (Alexander Case)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 10:31:30 -0800
Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:

>From: "Steven A. Tinner" <satinner@*********.net>
>
>
>>Can you really name a single game that has died from
>>going d20???
>>
>>
>
>On a personal level: L5R and Star Wars died, they are not the same games
>they used to be. With the change of rules, the feel of teh game changed so
>much that I and many others I have talked to feel that it is a whole
>different game.
>
>So those two game shas died.
>

With regard to L5R, I have to say, frankly, BS. AEG is still supporting
the original game (in fact, I saw a copy of the main L5R rules in
Borders just yesterday). They're simply dual statting their new
clanbooks and future splatbooks.

As for Star Wars. Frankly, I really, really hated how the Star Wars
worked (or more specifically, didn't work) under the D6 system. It just
didn't really feel like Star Wars, and I also really, really didn't like
the whole "bucket o' dice" aspect of the game. The d20 system handles
things more reasonabily. Also, I found things easier to find, sourcebook
wise. I had no idea where the actual rules to modify and design
starships was for the d6 system, in terms of sourcebooks. I came in
after WEG stopped publishing new Star Wars RPG stuff and before WotC
picked up the licenese, and, with so many books, it just made things to
dificult. For d20 on the other hand, they've got the "Starships of the
Galaxy" book which not only has rules for modifying your ships and a
bunch of new ships, but also the rules to design and build your own
space-ships and *space stations*. So, frankly, I like the d20 system
version much more than the d6 version.

Frankly, however, I'd rather this whole thing get killed by the mods,
because it's starting to turn into the System Holy Wars.

--
"Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons?"
-John Travolta in "Broken Arrow"
Message no. 35
From: adamj@*********.com (Adam Jury)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:40:38 -0500
On 3-Apr-04, at 12:50 PM, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:

> From: "Steven A. Tinner" <satinner@*********.net>
>>
>> Can you really name a single game that has died from
>> going d20???
>
> On a personal level: L5R and Star Wars died, they are not the same
> games
> they used to be. With the change of rules, the feel of teh game
> changed so
> much that I and many others I have talked to feel that it is a whole
> different game.

WEG lost of the license for Star Wars long before WotC got it and
released their Star Wars and Star Wars Revised game. There was very
little chance that anyone was going to buy the Star Wars license /and/
license the old system/text from WEG.

[Playing Star Wars Revised over the last six months or so has given me
a lot of good ideas on what should be fixed for a Shadowrun d20 game.]

Adam
--
Adam Jury
Editor, The Shadowrun Supplemental :: http://tss.dumpshock.com
Message no. 36
From: crusader-x@*******.net (E.L.King)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:53:57 -0500
On Apr 3, 2004, at 12:50 PM, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
> From: "Steven A. Tinner" <satinner@*********.net>
>>
>> Can you really name a single game that has died from
>> going d20???
>
> On a personal level: L5R and Star Wars died, they are not the same
> games
> they used to be. With the change of rules, the feel of teh game
> changed so
> much that I and many others I have talked to feel that it is a whole
> different game.
> Lars

Star Wars isn't the WEG game converted to d20. It's a separate game
entirely.

As for L5R/Oriental Adventures and 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures, in
my opinion, both of these games started dying when John Wick left AEG.
He was the author of both games' metaplots, and the change in the
quality and flavor of the material after they ran out of what he had
written before leaving is quite evident. Again, in my opinion.

EK
Message no. 37
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:42:02 -0500
At 12:50 PM 4/3/2004, Lars Wagner Hansen wrote:
>From: "Steven A. Tinner" <satinner@*********.net>
> >
> > Can you really name a single game that has died from
> > going d20???
>
>On a personal level: L5R and Star Wars died, they are not the same games
>they used to be. With the change of rules, the feel of teh game changed so
>much that I and many others I have talked to feel that it is a whole
>different game.
>
>So those two game shas died.

L5R is going on hot and heavy where I play. I believe there are /two/
campaigns running at the moment. All Oriental Adventures and the D20
supplements did was convert D&D players into L5R players. They're loving it.

As for Star Wars... I wouldn't play the WEG game. The mechanics were awful,
the sourcebooks were frequently obscure, and Jedi were far too powerful,
even for Jedi.

d20 is good for some things, such as high-fantasy, space opera, and other
over the top things (like Spycraft... I loooooooove Spycraft). It is less
well suited to more realistic settings, though it does okay with something
like Stargate SG-1 (which is semi-hard sci-fi). I'll be honest... I'm not
sure it could do something dark and gritty like Shadowrun, but some of the
rules in Unearthed Arcana (or is it Arcana Unearthed, damn you Monte Cooke)
might help.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 38
From: l-hansen@*****.tele.dk (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: SR D20 Released!
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:18:56 +0200
From: "Adam Jury" <adamj@*********.com>
>
> WEG lost of the license for Star Wars long before WotC got it and
> released their Star Wars and Star Wars Revised game. There was very
> little chance that anyone was going to buy the Star Wars license /and/
> license the old system/text from WEG.

One game for the price of two licenses, now who could resist that.

Lars

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