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From:	Gorbi gbmaill@***.de
Subject:	SR Diceless (WAS: Re: Priorities in the SR2/SR3)
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:41:41 +0200

Message no. 1 abortion_engine wrote:

>> However, saying that the character creation shouldn't be fair is just
>> plain wrong. No one here is wanting to make everyone the same, carbon
>> copies of each other, but we do want the characters to start off on the
>> same level. If someone wants to play a character with disadvantages and
>> obvious shortcomings compared to the other characters (like what you've
>> described) then any GM is going to allow it. However, nobody should be
>> forced to play a character that is weaker or with less abilities. That
>> is why game balance is essential for any game, both in the mechanics and
>> the character creation. Players need to feel that they are being given
>> the same opportunities and chances in the game without being forced to
>> favor a certain style or character. I admire your desire to push the
>> role-playing envelope, but surely you wouldn't force others to do the
>> same.
>>
> Only two things;
>
> 1. I guess I just feel too much emphasis is placed on game-balance. If you
> want to play a mage, you should want to play a mage no matter whether or not
> that makes you "weaker." I think that the emphasis on game-balance, in a
> way, lends credence to the idea that these numbers are actually important,
> and far too many people end up thinking that.

Yea, I can sort of prove that! Check out
http://www.landshut.org/bnla01/members/BulletShower/index.htm
You will find easy rules for playing any RPG DICELESS!
Although I haven't tried yet, these storytelling rules seem sensible to me.
What do you think?
Hey, GMs when has YOUR last supervillain simply been blasted to pieces
because a player made a lucky roll and you had no GM screen? BTW how much do
you GMs cheat?

Gorbi

--
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
Mahatma Ghandi

From:	lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject:	SR Diceless (WAS: Re: Priorities in the SR2/SR3)
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:46:29 -0700

Message no. 2 >Hey, GMs when has YOUR last supervillain simply been blasted to pieces
>because a player made a lucky roll and you had no GM screen? BTW how much do
>you GMs cheat?

I never thought of anything I've done as cheating. If for the sake of the
story supervillan A needs to survive that nuclear blast at ground zero so
be it. Same as if i don;t think that the pc needs the info and a bad die
roll aside, i've always beleived that if the campaign dictates soemthing
happen or not happen then that overrides any rules..

--lomion

From:	abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject:	SR Diceless (WAS: Re: Priorities in the SR2/SR3)
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:00:25 -0400

Message no. 3 > > <snip me talking about ROLEplaying>

> Yea, I can sort of prove that! Check out
> http://www.landshut.org/bnla01/members/BulletShower/index.htm
> You will find easy rules for playing any RPG DICELESS!
> Although I haven't tried yet, these storytelling rules seem sensible to
me.
> What do you think?
> Hey, GMs when has YOUR last supervillain simply been blasted to pieces
> because a player made a lucky roll and you had no GM screen? BTW how much
do
> you GMs cheat?
>
I haven't looked at these rules--I will--but I can tell you that SR is
incredibly enjoyable--fun--to play diceless. This is regularly what I do
with new players. It focuses people on the characters and on the story. But
both players and GM must be mature adults [even if they're all 12],
otherwise, the game repeatedly turns into, "but I would have hit him; I'm an
expert marksman," "Well, I'm sorry, but you still missed. Maybe there's some
other reason," "Shut up or I'm going to kick your ass and take your
clothes," etc.

I don't even use character sheets in the case of diceless games. I've had
good experiences not even telling people who they're playing. "You wake up
on a hard, cold steel table of some sort. You can't see very well, as your
eyes are mostly stuck shut. You don't really remember this place, or this
table, or being this naked when this many lights are on. And then you
realize, with a sort of muffled shock, like breaking an egg inside a cotton
ball, that you don't even recall what your name is."

You know, standard Flashback stuff. But it can sure be fun. "I wanna make
that big red hot ball I made before. I wanna make it right on that mean jerk
with that sharp stick...hey, why am I so tired all of a sudden...?"

From:	Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject:	SR Diceless (WAS: Re: Priorities in the SR2/SR3)
Date:	Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:43:55 -0400

Message no. 4 > I don't even use character sheets in the case of diceless games. I've had
> good experiences not even telling people who they're playing. "You wake up
> on a hard, cold steel table of some sort. You can't see very well, as your
> eyes are mostly stuck shut. You don't really remember this place, or this
> table, or being this naked when this many lights are on. And then you
> realize, with a sort of muffled shock, like breaking an egg inside a cotton
> ball, that you don't even recall what your name is."
>
> You know, standard Flashback stuff. But it can sure be fun. "I wanna make
> that big red hot ball I made before. I wanna make it right on that mean jerk
> with that sharp stick...hey, why am I so tired all of a sudden...?"

About 30% of all the games I GMed for the group I was with never involved
rolling any dice. About another 60% had dice rolling only when it was
absolutely neccessary. For the rest of the games, there was always the
manditory Hunt for the Character Sheet because we hadly ever needed them. It
was tons of fun that way.

As for how much I cheated, I believe that you'd have to be breaking rules to
cheat. This falls under the quote "We're not really playing Shadowrun, the game
we're playing just happens to have the same name." I bent rules into 180s
because it fit our game better. I never broke my rules, so I guess that means I
never cheated. :-)

Wildfire

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