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Message no. 1
From: paladinu@*******.com (Uriah Blatherwick)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:26:38 -0500
<UNLURK>

>read never deal with a dragon, the helipads used in that novel are not
>hanger like, so it is like a step in the zigurat shape.
>
>but then again how many people pay attention to the novels? :P
>
>Aethelwulf

So I read the first seven novels in preparation for GMing as I don't have
access to a gaming group to get into the "look and feel" of the SR world.
They were mostly just okay writing (I liked Changeling a lot) but the
fiction adds a bit of fun that reading the sourcebooks doesn't have. Anyway
so the real question is: since the books are no longer numbered after 'Into
the Shadows' (which is numbered incorrectly IMO) how will I ever figure out
what order to read them in? Is there a list somewhere? Also anybody have a
favorite and what did they like about it? Any real stinkers?

BTW: My vote is also for a 2m ceiling. The area above where all the wires
and ducts run is called the plenum and should be about 1m. Above that,
steel I beams run and support the additional height of a concrete slab. The
slab is really the only place I can see futuretech helping much since
presumably plasticrete is tougher than regular cement.

</UNLURK>



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Message no. 2
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:30:37 +0200
According to Uriah Blatherwick, on Mon, 23 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Anyway so the real question is: since the books are no longer numbered
> after 'Into the Shadows' (which is numbered incorrectly IMO) how will I
> ever figure out what order to read them in? Is there a list somewhere?

I think someone has a page with reviews of the novels, but I don't know if it
puts them in the correct order. You could look at the copyright dates, though;
even though this won't give you the precise order (because several usually came
out in a single year) it does put them in roughly the right order.

> Also anybody have a favorite and what did they like about it? Any real
> stinkers?

Stay away from anything by Mel Odom -- it's painfully clear that he never
actually played the game, so you'll be getting the impression a lot that what
the characters do doesn't actually happen in a game session...

> BTW: My vote is also for a 2m ceiling.

That's a very low ceiling, though. Being in a room that's only 2 m high would
probably give many non-dwarfs the idea that they're going to bang their heads
any moment now.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:59:53 +0000
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > BTW: My vote is also for a 2m ceiling.
>
>That's a very low ceiling, though. Being in a room that's only 2 m high
>would
>probably give many non-dwarfs the idea that they're going to bang their
>heads
>any moment now.

Definitely, having grown up in a house where the ceilings are either only
about a foot above my head (so about 2.2m) or somewhere closer to 4m, I
developed a tendence to duck as I went through doors, 2m would be incredibly
claustrophobic.

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Message no. 4
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:14:49 +0200
According to Lone Eagle, on Tue, 24 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Definitely, having grown up in a house where the ceilings are either only
> about a foot above my head (so about 2.2m) or somewhere closer to 4m, I
> developed a tendence to duck as I went through doors, 2m would be
> incredibly claustrophobic.

I suppose that depends on how prone to that you are in the first place,
though. I've walked around in a few bunkers, which aren't generally noted
for their high ceilings, and didn't find it claustrophobic at all[1].
However, that may have to do with those rooms all being small, so it's not
as obvious. But if you take a large space and put in a 2-meter ceiling, it
will appear to be much lower than it actually is.

[1] OTOH, I find it uncomfortable to look up at a ceiling five or six
stories above me...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 5
From: giulliano.penatti@**.com.br (Giulliano Penatti)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:17:23 -0300
The average ceiling has 2.50m. A doorway has 2.10m. You cant have a ceiling
lower than a doorway. I know it, cause I am an architect.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
To: "Shadowrun Discussion" <shadowrn@*****.dumpshock.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: SR Novels (some Arcology)


According to Lone Eagle, on Tue, 24 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Definitely, having grown up in a house where the ceilings are either only
> about a foot above my head (so about 2.2m) or somewhere closer to 4m, I
> developed a tendence to duck as I went through doors, 2m would be
> incredibly claustrophobic.

I suppose that depends on how prone to that you are in the first place,
though. I've walked around in a few bunkers, which aren't generally noted
for their high ceilings, and didn't find it claustrophobic at all[1].
However, that may have to do with those rooms all being small, so it's not
as obvious. But if you take a large space and put in a 2-meter ceiling, it
will appear to be much lower than it actually is.

[1] OTOH, I find it uncomfortable to look up at a ceiling five or six
stories above me...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:19:03 +0200
According to Giulliano Penatti, on Tue, 24 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> The average ceiling has 2.50m. A doorway has 2.10m. You cant have a
> ceiling lower than a doorway.

You could have cut-outs in the ceiling to accomodate the doors... ;)

> I know it, cause I am an architect.

So you sound like the person to finally solve the problem for us: how much space
will be needed above the ceiling for the cables etc. and the thickness of the
next floor? Because if this is 0.5 m, then the Arcology is viable enough. But if
you need a meter or so, there's something wrong with its dimensions...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 7
From: giulliano.penatti@**.com.br (Giulliano Penatti)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:30:48 -0300
Gurth wrote:

>>The average ceiling has 2.50m. A doorway has 2.10m. You cant have a
>> ceiling lower than a doorway.

>You could have cut-outs in the ceiling to accomodate the doors... ;)

>> I know it, cause I am an architect.

>So you sound like the person to finally solve the problem for us: how much
space
>will be needed above the ceiling for the cables etc. and the thickness of
the
>next floor? Because if this is 0.5 m, then the Arcology is viable enough.
But if
>you need a meter or so, there's something wrong with its dimensions...

Well, in the case of an Archology I would recomend a hight of at least 3.00
to 3.50m height, plus an additional 0.50m for the cabling and other sistems
installations, like heat sistems, air conditioning and other stuffs like
that. I am designing a big hotel facility right now. It has 100,000.00
square meters. We have a 3.00 m ceiling for the rooms areas, including the
installation parts. So it will be 2.50m of free space plus 0.50m of
installation space. But, in the commercial area, or mall, where we will have
other types of uses, like stores, theaters, restaurants, and some other
things we are using a 5.00m ceiling, where we will have 4.00m of free space
and 1.00m for installation. Someone told that a low ceiling in big spaces is
claustrophobic. That is totally true. In big spaces we use taller ceilings
to make people more confortable.
I don´t know if I answered your question but I tried. Sorry for the bad
english. That is not my first language. I live in Brazil an speak
portuguese, so you will have to escuse my mistakes.

Giulliano
Message no. 8
From: loneeagle2061@*******.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:55:11 +0000
>From: "Giulliano Penatti" <giulliano.penatti@**.com.br>
>I don´t know if I answered your question but I tried. Sorry for the bad
>english. That is not my first language. I live in Brazil an speak
>portuguese, so you will have to escuse my mistakes.

Enough to point out that the Archology isn't quite right.
No problem with the English by the way, if nothing else it's better than my
portuguese :-)

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Message no. 9
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:15:56 +0200
According to Giulliano Penatti, on Wed, 25 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> Well, in the case of an Archology I would recomend a hight of at least
> 3.00 to 3.50m height, plus an additional 0.50m for the cabling and other
> sistems installations, like heat sistems, air conditioning and other
> stuffs like that.

OK, so basically the building is either not tall enough for its number of
floors, has too many floors for its height, or will appear cramped in many
areas...

Still, a lot of areas in the Arcology will be living space, where a 2.50 m
ceiling will do just fine.

> Someone told that a low ceiling in big spaces is claustrophobic.

That was me :)

> That is totally true.

See? I _do_ know what I'm talking about. Sometimes, anyway :)

> Sorry for the bad english. That is not my first language. I live in Brazil an
> speak portuguese, so you will have to escuse my mistakes.

Standard response: Don't apologize, your English is better than that of many
native speakers :P

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: iridios@********.net (Iridios)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 20:05:34 -0400
Gurth wrote:
>
> According to Giulliano Penatti, on Wed, 25 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> > Sorry for the bad english. That is not my first language. I live in Brazil an
> > speak portuguese, so you will have to escuse my mistakes.
>
> Standard response: Don't apologize, your English is better than that of many
> native speakers :P

Hey now!! I resemble that remark. :P


--
Iridios
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14 of 25 Quotes in file.
Message no. 11
From: dam01@***.edu.au (Damion Milliken)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:52:39 +1000
Uriah Blatherwick writes:

> So I read the first seven novels in preparation for GMing as I don't have
> access to a gaming group to get into the "look and feel" of the SR world.
> They were mostly just okay writing (I liked Changeling a lot) but the
> fiction adds a bit of fun that reading the sourcebooks doesn't have.
> Anyway so the real question is: since the books are no longer numbered
> after 'Into the Shadows' (which is numbered incorrectly IMO) how will I
> ever figure out what order to read them in? Is there a list somewhere?

1 Shadowrun Anthology (aka Into The Shadows)
2 Never Deal With A Dragon
3 Choose Your Enemies Carefully
4 Find Your Own Truth
5 2XS
6 Changeling
7 Never Trust An Elf
8 Streets of Blood
9 Shadowplay
10 Night.s Pawn
11 Striper Assassin
12 Lone Wolf
13 Fade to Black
14 Nosferatu
15 Burning Bright
16 Who Hunts The Hunter?
17 House of the Sun
18 Worlds Without End
19 Just Compensation
20 Black Madonna
21 Preying For Keeps
22 Dead Air
23 The Lucifer Deck
24 Steel Rain
25 Shadowboxer
26 Stranger Souls
27 Clockwork Asylum
28 Beyond the Pale
29 Headhunters
30 Bloodsport
31 Technobabel
32 Wolf and Raven
33 Psychotrope
34 The Terminus Experiment
35 Run Hard, Die Fast
36 Crossroads
37 The Forever Drug
38 Ragnarock
39 Tails You Lose
40 The Burning Time

> Also anybody have a favorite and what did they like about it? Any real
> stinkers?

As for what's good and what's bad, that depends a lot on personal
preferences. Ask 10 people, and get 5 or more different answers. They're all
useful for SR reference. Som emore than others, though. Likewise, some are
better works of literary art than others, too.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 12
From: Gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: SR Novels (some Arcology)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:04:30 +0200
According to Damion Milliken, on Mon, 30 Sep 2002 the word on the street was...

> 1 Shadowrun Anthology (aka Into The Shadows)

Note that there are two versions of this book, though. One, published by FASA
(and rather hard to find), has a different first story from the later version
by Roc.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know all this and more
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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