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Message no. 1
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:25:51 -0400
On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

<snip>
->But seriously, you've gotta use that Stage Magic skill to do that sort of
->thing sometime. Part of the reason for having unique skills, in my
->opinion, is to do the sorts of odd, non-combat things that add drama and
->spice to the game. Like the guy who's yo-yo throwing skill saved his life.

Was that his monowire yo-yo? If so I can understand why.
Especially with the diamond-ceramic ring for his finger as well as the
spool. Not bad for 3000 Nuyen, eh? (I had a PC with a monowire whip in
the form of a yo-yo... it was.... fun. Especially when he "walked the
dog" and it looked like, from a distance, the yo-yo was just hovering in
mid-air. Can you get arrested for a monofilament yo-yo?)

-> That's a big reason why I like the new Knowledge Skill set-up in SR3;
->there's so much more room for these general sorts of skills. I mean, who
->in their right mind would have taken points and spent them on "Trog Punk
->Bands" before SR3?

Ok, ample opportunity to create a list of unique skills and what
they're for. All skills are a form of Knowledge skill. I'll let the next
person to follow this thread delete the above paragraph but I'll throw out
a few of my faves:

Adaptation: Used to reduce TN of skill tests modified due to bad
conditions, lack of tools, etc. Each success reduces TN down by one.
Based on Intelligence. Specializations are for specific other skills.
Jerry-Rigging: Similar to the Build/Repair skills, the character
uses this skill to temporarily effect repairs on a vehicle or device. The
character rolls an open test and the result is the amount of time the
device will function normally. The time periods is based on the device,
for example: vehicles would be in days, weapons would be in shots,
electronics would be in hours of use, etc. Attempts after the initial
attempt are reduced by 2 every time an attempt is made (you can only
Jerry-Rig it for so long..). Based on Intelligence. Specializations are
for specific categories of devices.
Insulting: Trying to get someone to attack you or, at he very
least, be mad at you. This skill is opposed by willpower and the number
of net successes indicates how well or poorly your choice of insults was.
Four net successes in your favor should result in an attack, whereas 4
successes against might (GM choice) result in an incredible compliment and
the amorous attentions of the target. Based on Charisma. Specializations
are for particular kinds of insults (racial slurs, yo-momma statements,
etc.).

Someone reply like this so we can get a real decent list going.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 2
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:32:44 -0400
Fixer wrote:
> Adaptation: Used to reduce TN of skill tests modified due to bad
> conditions, lack of tools, etc. Each success reduces TN down by one.
> Based on Intelligence. Specializations are for specific other skills.
> Jerry-Rigging: Similar to the Build/Repair skills, the character
> uses this skill to temporarily effect repairs on a vehicle or device. The
> character rolls an open test and the result is the amount of time the
> device will function normally. The time periods is based on the device,
> for example: vehicles would be in days, weapons would be in shots,
> electronics would be in hours of use, etc. Attempts after the initial
> attempt are reduced by 2 every time an attempt is made (you can only
> Jerry-Rig it for so long..). Based on Intelligence. Specializations are
> for specific categories of devices.
> Insulting: Trying to get someone to attack you or, at he very
> least, be mad at you. This skill is opposed by willpower and the number
> of net successes indicates how well or poorly your choice of insults was.
> Four net successes in your favor should result in an attack, whereas 4
> successes against might (GM choice) result in an incredible compliment and
> the amorous attentions of the target. Based on Charisma. Specializations
> are for particular kinds of insults (racial slurs, yo-momma statements,
> etc.).

I think I'd have to classify all of those as Active skills, not
Knowledge skills. Simple test: Are you doing something? It's Active.
You could have a Knowledge skill about insults (Obscure Insults,
Speciality: Daisy-eater Racial Slurs), and have a whole encyclopedia
of the things in your head, but what you're describing is a skill for
/using/ insults to get a reaction, if that makes any sense.
Medicine (knowledge of anatomy, drug interactions and uses,
common (and uncommon) ailments, surgical procedures, etc) is a knowledge
skill. BioTech (splinting bones, PERFORMING surgery, using medical
devices) is an active skill. Law is a knowledge skill, Negotiation
is a lawyer's primary Active skill (well, that and etiquette). At
least, that's my reading of it. I'm hoping FASA will stay consistant -
for instance, if I'm interpretting things correctly, the skills used
for, say, designing a spell should be a Knowlefge skill (Sorcery
Background/Theory), with Sorcery (an Active skill) being used
for /casting/ the spell.
And Computers (as an active skill) gets really confusing. Where
does the knowledge/theory task end and the active task begin when you're
writing a program?

--Sean
Message no. 3
From: Ryan Bolduan <emeottrw@***.MRS.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:44:02 -0500
Fixer wrote:
> Jerry-Rigging: Similar to the Build/Repair skills, the character
> uses this skill to temporarily effect repairs on a vehicle or device. The
> character rolls an open test and the result is the amount of time the
> device will function normally. The time periods is based on the device,
> for example: vehicles would be in days, weapons would be in shots,
> electronics would be in hours of use, etc. Attempts after the initial
> attempt are reduced by 2 every time an attempt is made (you can only
> Jerry-Rig it for so long..). Based on Intelligence. Specializations are
> for specific categories of devices.

We have somebody with this same exact skill. We call it McGuiverism.



/> Duct tape is like the force, it has a light and
/< a dark side and it binds the universe together.
O[\\\\\\(O):::<===============================================-
\< -- Ryan Bolduan
\> emeottrw@***.mrs.umn.edu
http://cda.mrs.umn.edu/~emeottrw/sr/sr.html
Message no. 4
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:17:31 -0400
On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Sean McCrohan wrote:

-> I think I'd have to classify all of those as Active skills, not
->Knowledge skills. Simple test: Are you doing something? It's Active.

So's Chemistry (are you mixing chemicals?), Psychology (are you
analyzing someone?), the aformentioned Yo-yo skill (are you twirling?).
Any of the "Knowledge skills" almost can be used in an active format.
It's not a physical skill, however. You have to KNOW what to do, what not
to do, and so forth. With the adaptation you simply know how to find
tools that'll work just as well (well, hopefully), with Insults it's what
you know about people, with Jerry-rigging, it's just trying to get it to
work for a little while longer using whatever materials happen to be
handy.

->You could have a Knowledge skill about insults (Obscure Insults,
->Speciality: Daisy-eater Racial Slurs), and have a whole encyclopedia
->of the things in your head, but what you're describing is a skill for
->/using/ insults to get a reaction, if that makes any sense.
-> Medicine (knowledge of anatomy, drug interactions and uses,
->common (and uncommon) ailments, surgical procedures, etc) is a knowledge
->skill. BioTech (splinting bones, PERFORMING surgery, using medical
->devices) is an active skill. Law is a knowledge skill, Negotiation
->is a lawyer's primary Active skill (well, that and etiquette). At
->least, that's my reading of it. I'm hoping FASA will stay consistant -
->for instance, if I'm interpretting things correctly, the skills used
->for, say, designing a spell should be a Knowlefge skill (Sorcery
->Background/Theory), with Sorcery (an Active skill) being used
->for /casting/ the spell.
-> And Computers (as an active skill) gets really confusing. Where
->does the knowledge/theory task end and the active task begin when you're
->writing a program?

Computers and Electronics would be Knowledge skills under your
definition, because you need the B/R version of these skills to "do
something" besides use what already exists. Some Knowledge skills can't be
"used actively" (like History) and some Active skills can't be "used
actively" (like Electronics, not the Electronics B/R) and therefore does
make supporting your opinion a little difficult from my viewpoint.
From what I can understand of FASA's reasoning behind Knowledge
skills versus Active skills, the Knowledge skills are the not-as-useful
but very entertaining skills people might have and not "this is used
actively" and "this is something I just know". As long as a Knowledge
skill doesn't do anything permanent (like Build/Repair) or give
substantial bonuses in combat (like Whips or Pistol) or overlap another
skill, it can be a knowledge skill.
Kind of like the earlier "Singing" skill... anybody can sing...
some just do it better than others because they have learned how. I peg
Singing as a Knowledge skill because that character took the time to learn
how to control the lungs, vocal chords, and tongue. Other say it's an
Active skill because you're "doing something". Next time I want to learn
Breathing I'm sure someone will tell me it's an Active skill.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 5
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:35:13 -0400
Okay - Fixer, I'm going to address some of the general Active vs
Knowledge points in a separate thread. But for these specific ones -
I would consider Jury Rig a Build/Repair skill (or, more likely, a
speciality of a B/R skill), and Insults a Social skill (it can't be
a Knowldege skill - all Knowledge skills are based on Intelligence, and
this one's based on Charisma). Both Adaption and Jury Rig, in /my/
opinion (YMMV) are too vague - I can see practicing a particular task
under adverse conditions (which is why I suggested a speciality for
a different skill), but I don't feel like it'd be that transferable from
one task to another, if you know what I mean. A skill in doing 'things'
under every possible adverse condition...I don't know, it just doesn't
work for me. But it doesn't have to work for me to work for you :)
I also worry that coming up with a lot of Knowledge skills that
have as their only purpose giving bonuses to Active skills will
lead to players saying 'what skills will give me the most bonuses' rather
than 'what sorts of things would my character know?'.

--Sean
Message no. 6
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:43:53 -0400
At 01:25 PM 9/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

>->But seriously, you've gotta use that Stage Magic skill to do that sort of
>->thing sometime. Part of the reason for having unique skills, in my
>->opinion, is to do the sorts of odd, non-combat things that add drama and
>->spice to the game. Like the guy who's yo-yo throwing skill saved his life.
>
> Was that his monowire yo-yo?

HELL NO!! Nope, not a weapon at all, just a regular yo-yo. Okay, it's
probably one of those hyper advanced yo-yos and not a cheap plastic one,
but still just a toy.

He used it as a crude timer of sorts; he figured out the average length of
time it would "sleep" and used that as a timer. It might not work in real
life, but it was such an original idea, I let it work.

> Ok, ample opportunity to create a list of unique skills and what
>they're for. All skills are a form of Knowledge skill. I'll let the next
>person to follow this thread delete the above paragraph but I'll throw out
>a few of my faves:
>
> Insulting: Trying to get someone to attack you or, at he very
>least, be mad at you. This skill is opposed by willpower and the number
>of net successes indicates how well or poorly your choice of insults was.
>Four net successes in your favor should result in an attack, whereas 4
>successes against might (GM choice) result in an incredible compliment and
>the amorous attentions of the target. Based on Charisma. Specializations
>are for particular kinds of insults (racial slurs, yo-momma statements,
>etc.).

This I like.

But I'm really keen on the "Elven John Tesh Imitation Bands: 4" sort of
skills myself. That sort of thing is my own particular personal fetish
when it comes to this class of Skills. Totally inane and apparently
useless skills that out of the blue end up becoming the key to a run,
totally unexpected by anyone. I've mentioned this before too.

My own main PC has Knowledge Skill points invested in snobbish skills like
"Fine Cigars," "Scottish Single Malt Whisky" and "California
Wines." Okay,
so they mimic some of my own knowledge and snobbery, but hey, they are
Karma points invested in something utterly non-combat and non-magic related.

Erik J.

Nothing like a good Maquanduo (I can never remember how to spell that),
Dunhill or Davidoff cigar with a *neat* glass of Strathisla...match that
with fresh clean and cool ocean breeze and a beautiful woman and you've got
a perfect evening...
Message no. 7
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: [SR] Unique Skills (was Re: Question about Lock Picking)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:12:28 -0400
On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Erik Jameson wrote:

->> Ok, ample opportunity to create a list of unique skills and what
->>they're for. All skills are a form of Knowledge skill. I'll let the next
->>person to follow this thread delete the above paragraph but I'll throw out
->>a few of my faves:
->>
->> Insulting: Trying to get someone to attack you or, at he very
->>least, be mad at you. This skill is opposed by willpower and the number
->>of net successes indicates how well or poorly your choice of insults was.
->>Four net successes in your favor should result in an attack, whereas 4
->>successes against might (GM choice) result in an incredible compliment and
->>the amorous attentions of the target. Based on Charisma. Specializations
->>are for particular kinds of insults (racial slurs, yo-momma statements,
->>etc.).
->
->This I like.
->
->But I'm really keen on the "Elven John Tesh Imitation Bands: 4" sort of
->skills myself. That sort of thing is my own particular personal fetish
->when it comes to this class of Skills. Totally inane and apparently
->useless skills that out of the blue end up becoming the key to a run,
->totally unexpected by anyone. I've mentioned this before too.
->
->My own main PC has Knowledge Skill points invested in snobbish skills like
->"Fine Cigars," "Scottish Single Malt Whisky" and "California
Wines." Okay,
->so they mimic some of my own knowledge and snobbery, but hey, they are
->Karma points invested in something utterly non-combat and non-magic related.
->
->Erik J.

Geesh, I must be boring. Most of the skills I personally know are
purely useful skills, except maybe "Role-Playing Games: 8", which can be
used in social interactions by assuming a role you are not (which came in
handy in my youth when intimidating people... I'd play the part of a mafia
don's kid... snobbish enough to be accurate, people never knew for sure
and few ever messed with me). I know nothing of brandies, wines, cigars,
politics, etc. My interests have been things like chemistry, biology,
physics, engineering, computers (but not historical), etc. skills which
are ultimately useful. True, I don't know where to hang out (Decker
Hangouts: 4), where the nice clubs are (Nightclubs: 4), or who's doing
what to who in the world (besides what I read in the news, does that count
as a skill?). That's what I have friends (read: contacts, buddies) for.
When they need something done, they know to call me. When I need to know
where a party is going down, I call them. I tend to make my characters as
functional as I am, since I know no othe way to be. I decided to choose
the Insulting, Jerry-Rigging and Adaptation Knowledge skills because
that's where I put them. I can't fix a car, but I can make it run for a
little while. I'm used to not having the tools necessary to do what I
need done so adaptation has become second nature to me, I'm not certain
what I'd do if I actually HAD the necessary tools. Insulting... well... I
can be quite, pointed, at times. ]:-)
Damn, too long, stopping now. ]:-)

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?

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