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Message no. 1
From: "Joshua M. Kanapkey" <Wakabout@***.COM>
Subject: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:22:23 -0400
Hola, mis amigos! {{Hello, my friends!}}

I was wondering if anyone has come up with, or knows of, any rules for
converting AD&D characters to Shadowrun rules and vice versa? I am asking
because I am running campaigns for both of these games and I thought it would
be _REALLY_ interesting to time/dimension -shift my players between these
settings.

<evil grin followed by maniacal laughter>

Questions? Comments? Ideas? Snide Remarks?

Muchas gracias y Adios,
Gimli Gloinson, Dwarven Decker.
wakabout@***.com
Message no. 2
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:22:30 PDT
>Hola, mis amigos! {{Hello, my friends!}}

<Dr. Nick> Hi everybody! </Dr. Nick>

>I was wondering if anyone has come up with, or knows of, any rules for
>converting AD&D characters to Shadowrun rules and vice versa? I am asking
>because I am running campaigns for both of these games and I thought it would
>be _REALLY_ interesting to time/dimension -shift my players between these
>settings.

You are sick.

><evil grin followed by maniacal laughter>
>
>Questions? Comments? Ideas? Snide Remarks?

You are sick.
Message no. 3
From: Grill <frech@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 22:01:43 -0700
Benjamin wrote:
>
> >Hola, mis amigos! {{Hello, my friends!}}
>
> <Dr. Nick> Hi everybody! </Dr. Nick>
>
> >I was wondering if anyone has come up with, or knows of, any rules for
> >converting AD&D characters to Shadowrun rules and vice versa? <snip>
> You are sick.

I agree, but sadly in a campaign I've played in, we've done just this.
What we do: divide A_&_ attributes by 3 to get SR attributes. You have
to sort of wing it on the skills, though.

> <snip>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Frech A.K.A. Grill the elfin
shaman-who-is-liking-D&D-Less&Less-every-day
http://www.realtime.net/~frech/
Message no. 4
From: "Wendy Wanders, Subject 117" <KGGEWEHR@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 23:21:38 -0500
You wrote:
> I agree, but sadly in a campaign I've played in, we've done just this.
> What we do: divide A_&_ attributes by 3 to get SR attributes. You have
> to sort of wing it on the skills, though.

I once did a fantasy campaign using adapted SR rules, and it isn't terribly
difficult, since the system is so abstract. Do a little thinking, it'll come
to you, though converting from AD&D is harder since it's not skill-based.

losthalo
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:15:53 +0100
Joshua M. Kanapkey said on 15:22/ 1 Aug 97...

> I was wondering if anyone has come up with, or knows of, any rules for
> converting AD&D characters to Shadowrun rules and vice versa? I am asking
> because I am running campaigns for both of these games and I thought it would
> be _REALLY_ interesting to time/dimension -shift my players between these
> settings.

It shouldn't be all that hard, at least for the stats/attributes. AD&D is
a 3-18 system, SR a 1-6 system, so divide the AD&D stats (with or without
racial modifiers) by 3 to find the equivalent SR ones. The apply SR racial
mods if you didn't include the AD&D ones, and that's that.

Skills, though, would be a lot more tricky since AD&D doesn't really use
skill levels of any kind.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zie, de pyromaan schijnt door de bomen.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Shergold <shergold@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 11:45:27 -0400
>
> Joshua M. Kanapkey said on 15:22/ 1 Aug 97...
>
> > I was wondering if anyone has come up with, or knows of, any rules for
> > converting AD&D characters to Shadowrun rules and vice versa? I am
asking
> > because I am running campaigns for both of these games and I thought it
would
> > be _REALLY_ interesting to time/dimension -shift my players between
these
> > settings.
Gurth Wrote:
>
> It shouldn't be all that hard, at least for the stats/attributes. AD&D is
> a 3-18 system, SR a 1-6 system, so divide the AD&D stats (with or without
> racial modifiers) by 3 to find the equivalent SR ones. The apply SR
racial
> mods if you didn't include the AD&D ones, and that's that.
>

We did it with one of my street sams to a ravenloft game, stats or no prob,
it's the skills I'd say about 3/4 of her skills where a real pain in the
arse to convert. Specially armed and unarmed combat, what weapons could
she use and how many proficiencies? It was real mess, though my GM for
shadowrun was in the game also that helped clear some things up.

SilverFire
"I merely chewed in self-defense."

-Draco the Dragon
"Dragonheart"
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 11:22:49 +0100
Shergold said on 11:45/ 2 Aug 97...

> We did it with one of my street sams to a ravenloft game, stats or no prob,
> it's the skills I'd say about 3/4 of her skills where a real pain in the
> arse to convert. Specially armed and unarmed combat, what weapons could
> she use and how many proficiencies? It was real mess, though my GM for
> shadowrun was in the game also that helped clear some things up.

Yeah, that's what I thought too... It would be much easier if AD&D used
some kind of skill levels instead of making skills boolean: you either
know them or you don't.

The weapons might be realtively easy: for every weapon proficiency in
AD&D, you get one level in Armed Combat in SR; the other way around you
could allow the player to select one weapon proficiency per level of Armed
Combat.
Other proficiencies, though, are a bit more difficult, especially since
many don't have SR equivalents.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zie, de pyromaan schijnt door de bomen.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 8
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:31:27 EDT
On Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:15:53 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>Skills, though, would be a lot more tricky since AD&D doesn't really use
>skill levels of any kind.

Slightly... AD&D non-weapon proficiencies run from 1 to 20, so a similar
"divide by 3" system could work for those. Actually it gets even easier
if you are converting from a character made with the "Player's Option"
rules, as in that system non-weap. profs aren't merely rated as
(attribute +/- 1), but start out fairly low and must be increased as the
character gaines levels.

Of course this all works great for the NON weapon profs... *Weapons* on
the the other hand are a bit trickier. Maybe give the character an Armed
Combat rating equal to the number of weapon proficiencies they have (with
concentrations and specializations for Specializations in AD&D, or if
using the Player's Option stuff, for the various "favored" weapon rules).
As for Unarmed... well, I don't know mess with the character's level and
whether they have any additional weapon profs allocated to the various
"unarmed" combat methods and styles in AD&D.

Or just make it up.

~Tim
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 12:20:48 +0100
Tim Cooper said on 3:31/ 4 Aug 97...

> Slightly... AD&D non-weapon proficiencies run from 1 to 20, so a similar
> "divide by 3" system could work for those. Actually it gets even easier
> if you are converting from a character made with the "Player's Option"
> rules, as in that system non-weap. profs aren't merely rated as
> (attribute +/- 1), but start out fairly low and must be increased as the
> character gaines levels.

That's a new one to me... The way I've always seen it played is that you
either have a proficiency or you don't, and no levels or any kind are
involved.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zie, de pyromaan schijnt door de bomen.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: Denny Kruse 1-511 <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN]Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 12:48:24 -0700
Hi all,

I came into work this weekend and found the same subject
on both the AD&D and Shadowrun list. Since I my ettiqute
(1990's internet) skill didn't tell me if it would be a
breach to crosspost posts from both lists, I decided
not to quote anybody but address the topics brought up.
(comments?), and then send it to both lists (under
different subjects to match each list).

Stats are pretty straighforward - they make a simple
enough match, just divide the AD&D stat by 3.

Skills are also fairly easy, but some fudging will be
involved. SR skills have two components: scope and
skill level. AD&D weapon skills have the same, as do
non-weapons skills, but are weaker on the skill level.

For each AD&D weapon slot you spend, you have a SR
specialization in the weapon. If you buy a AD&D
tight or broad weapon group, then you have a SR
concentration. (weapon groups are in the Complete
Figher's Handbook). Maybe a broad group can be the
equivalent to the general armed combat group - since
AD&D has the idea of the non-proficiency penalty
(read - SR skill default), which is very small for
fighters (-2, or -1 if you know another weapon in
the tight/broad group).

So that lets you map which skills you have (component
#1 - scope) but what about skill level/ThAC0? For
AD&D => SR, convert your ThAC0 to your skill level.
Tentatively, I'd place a Thac0 of 20 at SR 1, and
ThAC0 1 at SR 12. So I guess that would place a
10th level fighter (ThaCO0 11? doing this all from
memory) at skill level 6, which is about right. In
SR, a 6 means you have mastered the skill (if just
barely called a master - 12 is supposed to be the
highest), and a 9th level fighter is considered
"name level", or a master. Maybe this is a little
conservative, but you get the general idea.

Non-weapon skills are a little more difficult. In
AD&D, you spent a proficiency slot and get the general
knowledge of the skill => SR skill level of 3.
In AD&D, each additional prof slot you spend will give
you a +1 bonus to your check (though I prefer 2 or more),
so this would increase the SR skill level by 1, I guess.
Going from SR => AD&D, do the same. An SR skill of 1
could give you and AD&D prof with a -2 penalty, or maybe
more, to your AD&D prof check. All AD&D skills are
general skills, but you could easily simulate your SR
concentrations and specializations by just defining the
AD&D skill has having limited scope.

Hit points and AC? Just look at the general
armor rating for the SR armor, and map it similar to
AD&D armor - which will obviously result in a big
advantage to SR characters (as it should). I would
place synthleathers as leather armor, armor jacket
close to plate mail, light security armor around
AC -4, and full military grade armor around AC -10.
Look in the 1st ed. DMG for a similiar AC conversion
between AD&D and Gamma World (lots of stuff in that
1st ed. DMG - they left out too much in 2nd ed.)

Hit points will tie into level, not body. To
determine your street sam's level, look at how much
karma he has earned during his career. This depends
upon how much karma your DM gives out, but I would
say...hm I don't know. I would say that SR chars
don't start at 1st level - I would place them around
5th maybe. Then add some levels depending upon how
much karma they have earned. Once they are in the
AD&D world, this level would really only be used for
general experience level - like for resisting spells
that count up the levels affected, for determining
saving throws, and other XP level checks that basically
test your worldly experience (geez, don't even think
about level draining...).

So once you determine your level, figure out what
kind of Hit Dice you have. Street sam's would have
a figher's 10 sided, and non-combative types would
have 4 sided. Just figure out how combat-oriented
you character is - looking at Active skills like
the combat ones and athletics. In general, I would
place non-samurai's pretty low. Add in extra hit
points for higer body using the same 1/3 guideline
to figure out your hp bonus due to constitution
(body). In AD&D, everyone has the same body
overflow boxes if you use the optional "death's door"
rules (unconscious but not dead until at -10).

Wing the effects of cyberware and bioware based
upon what is done so far. Wired reflexes would
give you extra AD&D attacks/round and initiative
bonus. Dermal armor/Orthoskin would lower your
AC. Tailored Pheromones would alter your AD&D
charisma and comeliness (if you use that one),
which would could give you reaction bonuses off
the scale.

Combat will take some adjusting. SR combat rounds
last 3 seconds and AD&D rounds 1 minute (or 15 sec
in the new Player's Options:Combat and Tactics book).
This is also fairly easy. Just pick one or the
other and define that as the round. Maybe let the
SR character roll their normal SR initiative to see
how many attacks they get for that round, then
roll normal AD&D initiative, and give them a bonus.
Street sams will usually go first then, unless they
are dealing with a sword of quickness. Usually, a
sword or quickness always goes first unless
encountering another sword of quickness - a street
samuari wired to the gills probably qualifies as
as sword of quickness :o)

Weapon damage? Convert guns & grenades to some
AD&D damage, and forget about staging the damage
(this is taken into account with a "to hit" roll).
Off hand, I'd place a hold-out pistol at a d8, a
heavy pistol at a d12, an SMG in burst fire at 2d10,
and an assualt rifle at a 3d10. There are a
multitude of AD&D firearms rules in Dragon magazine
and other places.

Magic would be very tricky. In general, an SR
spellcaster is quick and deadly with their spells,
but the kind of spells they can cast are much more
limited. AD&D wizards are much more versatile,
but are limited by how many spells they can cast,
and the casting time of them. Give an SR mage a
spell casting time of 1 for all his spells, and it
would be possible for them to cast multiple spells
if wired or hasted. I don't want to think about
astral space/the astral plane. I suppose SR magic
gives magicians a natural ability to travel to the
astral plane.

A few notes:
One time when I was a player, we fought some chromed
solos from the cyberpunk game. I was playing a wizard
and the first thing I did was cast Ironguard on my
self (which allows all non-magical metal to pass right
through you). This meant bullets, metal swords, and
cyberarms went right through me without hurting me (but
is doesn't protect my equipment, so I lost a potion,
got holes in my cloak, and hole through one of my
spell books!). The next thing I did was yell to the
druid to cast a heat metal...but he was dead already.
I managed to cast an ironguard on one of the solos
(street sams) and expected the cyberware to just
drop out of his body. So we stopped the game and
decided that, in AD&D terms, cyberware is considered
magical (or at least living) in the SR spirit, which
makes it invulnerable to Ironguard and heat metal.
Otherwise it would be too easy to drop a street sam's
nervous systems all over the flool. Also, we ruled
that protection from normal missles (AD&D spell)
doesn't protect you from bullets. Not because they
are magical, but because the spell wasn't equipped to
stop them (as it can't stop attacks from siege-class
weapons. But it will reduce the damage - see spell).

Anyway, these are my ideas off the cuff. I realize
it is pretty vague.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 11
From: Denny Kruse 1-511 <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:31:31 -0700
>>Slightly... AD&D non-weapon proficiencies run from 1 to
>>20, so a similar "divide by 3" system could work for those.
>>Actually it gets even easier if you are converting from a
>>character made with the "Player's Option"
>>rules, as in that system non-weap. profs aren't merely
>>rated as (attribute +/- 1), but start out fairly low and
>>must be increased as the > character gaines levels.
>
>That's a new one to me... The way I've always seen it played
>is that you either have a proficiency or you don't, and no
>levels or any kind are involved.

You were probably playing 1st ed. AD&D. In 1st ed., the
only proficiencies were weapon profs. The only non-weapon
"proficiencies" were languages that you got if you were
demi-human or for high intelligence. Then you could pick
a secondary skill (like trapper, carpenter, etc).

In 2nd ed, skill doesn't mean too much. The proficiencies
are based upon attribute, +/- a few depending upon the
general difficulty of the skill. Riding is based
upon your Wisdom, +3. Engineering is intelligence -3.
Each extra slot adds +1 to your check. So, a 12 Int
character would have to spend 6 additional slots to equal
an 18 Int character who spent one slot, which I don't think
is right - I think learning and skill should count more than
natural ability.

So, I would just say that spending 1 slot for a non-weapon
proficiency would be the equivalent of a level 3 general
skill in SR, and add +1 to the skill for each slot spent
thereafter.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 12
From: Charles R Joseph <arcaneacuity@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [SRUN] Shadowrun/AD&D Conversions
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 23:47:11 -0400
On Mon, 4 Aug 1997 12:20:48 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>Tim Cooper said on 3:31/ 4 Aug 97...
>> Slightly... AD&D non-weapon proficiencies run from 1 to 20, so a
similar
>> "divide by 3" system could work for those. Actually it gets even
easier
>> if you are converting from a character made with the "Player's Option"
>> rules, as in that system non-weap. profs aren't merely rated as
>> (attribute +/- 1), but start out fairly low and must be increased as
the
>> character gaines levels.
>
>That's a new one to me... The way I've always seen it played is that
>you either have a proficiency or you don't, and no levels or any kind
are
>involved.

It's all detailed in the 2nd Edition Players Handbook under the
Proficiencies chapter. I don't know how 1st edition dealt with things,
or if they even dealt with them at all. I'm a relative new-comer to
AD&D. I was lucky enough to get my RPG start on GURPS and 1st edition
SR.

Winter Wolfe Arcane
arcaneacuity@****.com

"When our hatred is violent, it sinks us even beneath those we hate."

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