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Message no. 1
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 15:04:33 +0200
Badger wrote:
> This actually happened in a campaign I was running. The group had to enter
> a Dead Zone (Enhanced from NAGEE) in the desert and one of them failed a
> roll to keep their cyberware running. He had wired reflexes and Muscle
> Enhancements and I ruled that he could not move and in fact collapsed into a
> heap. The mage in the group tried to heal his fallen companion and scored
> quite a few successes. Because this was in a Dead Zone ,which I play as
> being an area of greatly enhanced magic and any magics done here have extra
> effects, the person he was trying to heal had his Wired Reflexes ripped out
> and he received some of the essence back. I ruled that this only happened
> because he had failed his original roll to keep them working (no casting
> heal on your enemies to get rid of that nasty stuff).
This healing stuff brings back a question which arose during a death and
life situation during one of our last runs. Image the following situation:
Player A is down with a deadly physical wound. First Aid fails, the wound
is NOT stabilzed. Now, the mage of the group casts Heal on A and cures
8 boxes of damage. What now? Mark a box per 10 minutes, yes, but when
will A die? After 80 minutes + (10*body) or after (10*body) minutes,
ignoring the heal spell? What do you think?
bye,
Stefan
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Message no. 2
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 07:48:42 -0700
>> I ruled that this only happened
>> because he had failed his original roll to keep them
>> working (no casting heal on your enemies to get rid
>> of that nasty stuff).
>Stefan wrote:
>This healing stuff brings back a question which arose
> during a death and life situation during one of our last
> runs. Image the following situation: Player A is down
> with a deadly physical wound. First Aid fails, the wound
> is NOT stabilzed. Now, the mage of the group casts
> Heal on A and cures 8 boxes of damage. What now?
> Mark a box per 10 minutes, yes, but when will A die?
> After 80 minutes + (10*body) or after (10*body) minutes,
> ignoring the heal spell? What do you think?

When you are at a deadly wound it means that there is
enough cuts/bleeding that you are loosing blood faster
than your body can produce it. So once you are able
to lower the damage below deadly you are no longer
going to bleed to death. The way I run it is the First
success (doesn't remove a box) but in effect is a stabilize,
then the rest of the successes remove boxes.

*just a suggestion though* - how many success did your
mage use for time? I don't think a normal person could
hang on for 30 min. for a mage to get a heal or treat off. -
even if he used only 2 for boxes and 6 for time that's still 5 minutes.


Thanks Gary.
Message no. 3
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:49:08 +0200
> This healing stuff brings back a question which arose during a death and
> life situation during one of our last runs. Image the following situation:
> Player A is down with a deadly physical wound. First Aid fails, the wound
> is NOT stabilzed. Now, the mage of the group casts Heal on A and cures
> 8 boxes of damage. What now? Mark a box per 10 minutes, yes, but when
> will A die? After 80 minutes + (10*body) or after (10*body) minutes,
> ignoring the heal spell? What do you think?

I just subtract the overflow boxes and then the physical condition boxes
and if the char has enough boxes after that he gets to live. I assume that
a heal spell takes care of the internal problems that would cause a mans
death in the process of healing those boxes.

--
"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 4
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:02:06 +0200
Gary wrote:
> *just a suggestion though* - how many success did your
> mage use for time? I don't think a normal person could
> hang on for 30 min. for a mage to get a heal or treat off. -
> even if he used only 2 for boxes and 6 for time that's still 5 minutes.
If I remember the rules right, it's one damage overflow point per
10 minutes (or was it 1 minute). Anyway if it's 10 minutes per point
then 30 minutes healing time isn't a real problem. I think nearly
every shadowrunner has a min. body of 3 and therefor a damage overflow
potential of min. 3.
It was ok with me, 'cause I'm always feeling bad killing off long
played characters. It's enough for me send them into a koma or near
death experience 8).
Killing loved characters always give some kind of bad vibrations, if
you know what I mean.

player: "OK, I know where you're living and wait for next time I'm the
GM! " 8)

bye,
Stefan
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Message no. 5
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 14:09:19 +0200
Jani wrote:
> I just subtract the overflow boxes and then the physical condition boxes
> and if the char has enough boxes after that he gets to live. I assume that
> a heal spell takes care of the internal problems that would cause a mans
> death in the process of healing those boxes.
>
Yes, I think my players will like that version 8).
bye,
Stefan
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e-mail: struck@****.informatik.uni-bonn.de
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Message no. 6
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:18:27 BST
This is wierd, surely if he's on a deadly, and you heal him to below that
level, surely he no longer bleeds to death..? If I have ten boxes of injuries,
and I'm healed ten, I;m no longer injured, so how can I still be bleeding
to death (or whatever for the medics out there)? Surely Bleeding is an
injury.



But here's a good one, how long does First Aid for a deadly take?
If it's longer than 10 minutes, the guy may bleed to death while you're
fixing him up. I know you have to keep them under constant 'medical
supervision', but a med-kit can do that (hey, it's got 3 Biotech), so
when is the wound 'stabilized'.


Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 7
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 10:31:16 -0400
>This is wierd, surely if he's on a deadly, and you heal him to below
>that level, surely he no longer bleeds to death..? If I have ten boxes
>of injuries, and I'm healed ten, I;m no longer injured, so how can I
>still be bleeding to death (or whatever for the medics out there)?
>Surely Bleeding is an injury.



>But here's a good one, how long does First Aid for a deadly take?
>If it's longer than 10 minutes, the guy may bleed to death while you're
>fixing him up. I know you have to keep them under constant 'medical
>supervision', but a med-kit can do that (hey, it's got 3 Biotech), so
>when is the wound 'stabilized'.


>Phil (Renegade)

I would definately say that when you heal someone's wounds (or treat)
that once you have the target down below 10 boxes of damage, they no
longer continue to bleed to death (like anyone else under 10 boxes of
damage). So, when you heal, first the overflow boxes are removed, then
once the #10 box is healed, the character is no longer bleeding to
death. (I would actually rule that once the spell starts, the target
is effectively "stabalized" and the target is no longer bleeding, then
remove the boxes from right to left (starting with overflow). Now if
you don't maintain the heal spell until it is complete, I would just
say it's as if nothing happened, and the target once again begins to
bleed to death.)

As far as first aid is concerned....I am not sure if it is a complex
action or not (I would assume so). If that is the case, then the
target would be stabalized at the end of that action.

Hope this helps!

Justin :)
Message no. 8
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:40:49 BST
Justin wrote :-

> I would definately say that when you heal someone's wounds (or treat)
> that once you have the target down below 10 boxes of damage, they no
> longer continue to bleed to death (like anyone else under 10 boxes of
> damage).

Yup, that's it, exactly how I play it.

> As far as first aid is concerned....I am not sure if it is a complex
> action or not (I would assume so). If that is the case, then the
> target would be stabalized at the end of that action

Nah, it;s got to be longer than that. It takes half an hour to first-aid a
serious wound. So it must be shorter than that, though admittedly with first
aid, you are trying to repair the damage, rather than just stopping it from
getting any worse..


Where's the guy with .medic sig? Is he still around? We need someeone with
experience here, who can massively over-generalise their subject for us
non-savvy types.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 9
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 08:57:36 +0200
Justin wrote:
> I would definately say that when you heal someone's wounds (or treat)
> that once you have the target down below 10 boxes of damage, they no
> longer continue to bleed to death (like anyone else under 10 boxes of
> damage). So, when you heal, first the overflow boxes are removed, then
> once the #10 box is healed, the character is no longer bleeding to
> death. (I would actually rule that once the spell starts, the target
> is effectively "stabalized" and the target is no longer bleeding, then
> remove the boxes from right to left (starting with overflow). Now if
> you don't maintain the heal spell until it is complete, I would just
> say it's as if nothing happened, and the target once again begins to
> bleed to death.)
>
Yes, that's the way I used the spell in my campaign, too. BUT: What is
the stabilize (sp?) spell good for. It's just a heal spell without healing.
It seems to imply that heal doesn't stabilize the patient.
bye,
Stefan
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Message no. 10
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 12:02:58 -0300
Stabilizes main use, is it's almost instant, and it's range LOs,
you don't have to run out into the fire-line to heal the stupid
physad who thought his name was 'waltz's-through-bullets'.

Least that's how I use it.

Phil (Runs-With-The-Pack)
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:12:51 +0200
>As far as first aid is concerned....I am not sure if it is a complex
>action or not (I would assume so). If that is the case, then the
>target would be stabalized at the end of that action.

First aid takes (bases time) 10 minutes for Light wounds, up to continuous
attention for Deadly, if the skill roll succeeds. If it doesn't (for the
Deadly wound), well I'd say you've lost about half an hour, because that's
the base time for a Serious wound.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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Message no. 12
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Stabilze and Healing
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 18:47:29 GMT
> > As far as first aid is concerned....I am not sure if it is a complex
> > action or not (I would assume so). If that is the case, then the
> > target would be stabalized at the end of that action
>
> Nah, it;s got to be longer than that. It takes half an hour to first-aid a
> serious wound. So it must be shorter than that, though admittedly with first
> aid, you are trying to repair the damage, rather than just stopping it from
> getting any worse..

From the emergency first aid I did, your concern is slapping on field
dressings, opening airways (with a bayonet if necessary :-) ) and
especially sealing off any chest wounds that are sucking air. With
that done, internal bleeding is the enemy, and that gives you more
time to play with. (Apologies to any experts out there, this was a
while ago).

We left stabilising a Deadly wound as taking a base of five minutes,
at the end of which you'd be on ten boxes of Physical but not
deteriorating (yet). How long it took before you started to slide
was a GM call after that, but this would usually buy you an hour or
so.

We also required Deadly wounds to be stabilised before magical healing
could be used, as a counter to too many "Treat Deadly" spells flying
around (which dates me, I know...)

> Where's the guy with .medic sig? Is he still around? We need someeone with
> experience here, who can massively over-generalise their subject for us
> non-savvy types.

Yep - I'm trying to remember an informal lecture on the care and feeding
of bullet wounds I was given a few years back, so I don't claim expert
status. There's a medic (Paul Finch?) out there who knows his stuff.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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