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Message no. 1
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:50:16 -0700
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
>...... This will leave them wondering why the
> plane was listed as lost with no survivors (IIRC). And who is the
> person who sent them back, and why did he do it? Fun, fun, fun :)

I like the way you are thinking...You could of course emply a bit of
movie stuff...And add an observer who goes back with the..but doesn't
make it back...and as it turns out sent them to begin with..in his
much older and goblinized self...The entire run simply to place his
younger self in a position to know what developments would be worth
investing in and which contests to bet on to gain a fortune large
enough to fund time travel research...OF course there should be more
in it than a simple puzzeler for the gamers..that they may or may not
figure out...there should be some item or person or information to recover
that is important...hmmmm....Or better yet..They end up saving the
life of the guy that starts the Humanis movement..Or the guy that
Goblinizes into the chief elf..And all of this is because it must be
done to preserve the current timeline..perhaps the dragon is a time
treveler too....hmmmm.....I like this more and more..[EG]...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 2
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:27:16 -0700
> From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.edu>
[chop SS Rat stuff]
> Basically, Hero made Bad Dude start the process.

Yea..it is a theme that has been reused a few times..I was thinking
originally of that movie where the Nimitz goes back to WWII and
fights the Japanese at Pearl Harbor..It could be kind of interesting
to put them into a situation of basically saving the life of the
equivelent Hitler or Stalin...Or the guy that created the virus that
made the Crash...There are many possibilities...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 3
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:48:16 +0100
In message <19970430232917150.AAA229@********.gj.net>, GRANITE
<granite@**.net> writes
>Yea..it is a theme that has been reused a few times..I was thinking
>originally of that movie where the Nimitz goes back to WWII and
>fights the Japanese at Pearl Harbor..

"The Final Countdown".

>It could be kind of interesting
>to put them into a situation of basically saving the life of the
>equivelent Hitler or Stalin...

No! Haven't you seen the introduction to "Command and Conquer - Red
Alert"? :)

I run a campaign that occasionally crosses over into the 1920s and 1990s
where the PCs are battling the horrifying forces of the Outer Gods and
the Great Old Ones, but that's because we use our Shadowrun characters
in Call of Cthulhu and decided it was more fun to adapt and cross over
than to run two seperate games.

It is fun, though :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 4
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:48:30 -0700
> From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.demon.co.uk>
> "The Final Countdown".

That's the one...I really like that movie..

> No! Haven't you seen the introduction to "Command and Conquer - Red
> Alert"? :)

No..is it good???I've heard the game is a good one though...

> I run a campaign that occasionally crosses over into the 1920s and 1990s
>...than to run two seperate games.

Sounds interesting...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:32:31 -0700
---GRANITE wrote:
>
> Or the guy that Goblinizes into the chief elf...
>
> --------------------------------GRANITE

Not to nitpick, but elves don't goblinize. ;o)

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 6
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 05:33:55 EDT
On Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:32:31 -0700 Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> writes:
>---GRANITE wrote:
>>
>> Or the guy that Goblinizes into the chief elf...
>>
>
>Not to nitpick, but elves don't goblinize. ;o)

Maybe that's why he's the CHIEF elf.

~Tim (hey, it's almost 2 am, you expect something coherent?)
Message no. 7
From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 00:37:55 -1000
Okay, the guy who UGE's into the chief elf.
(Depending on who you believe is the "chief elf")
Message no. 8
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 01:42:11 -0700
> From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
> To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
> metatype.

EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..While in the present of SR this happens
for all of the races..and Goblinization is rare..When things first
happened all was a different matter..While there have always been
true born dwarves..not so with elves..And again refering to pg 25 in
the core rules it refers to "....the new "races," the emerging elves,
dwarfs, orks, and trolls." If I had the time I would do a bit more
research and find more referances..but for now this will have to do..

> first dwarven and elven babies began arriving (I believe around 2015)

UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was
applied to the process of changing from a Human into
whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..

> I'm going off a basic understanding that no elf or dwarf metype has
> expressed after birth,

Sorry..you are misinformed..

> Mind you, I'm finishing up a shift at work, so I don't have the books
> right at hand.

Ah..that explains it.. ;P

>However, I believe that's an accurate recollection.

Check your core rules later.....You are close..but not quite on the
mark...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 9
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:07:29 -0700
> From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
> Okay, the guy who UGE's into the chief elf.
> (Depending on who you believe is the "chief elf")

Well..that would be Santa Claus of course... ;) I've been waiting
for someone else to say it since I sent it out...I couldn't stand it
anymore..
But really..I should have said a highly placed Elf..Or something more
precise...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 10
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:08:38 +0100
On Thu, 1 May 1997, GRANITE wrote:

> > From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
> > To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
> > metatype.
>
> EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..While in the present of SR this happens
> for all of the races..and Goblinization is rare..When things first
> happened all was a different matter..While there have always been
> true born dwarves..not so with elves..And again refering to pg 25 in
I'm afraid Loki was correct, Elves and Dwarfs were all born as such, Orks
and trolls goblinised. I believ teh former happened around 2010, teh
latter around 2021.

> > first dwarven and elven babies began arriving (I believe around 2015)
>
> UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was
> applied to the process of changing from a Human into
> whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..
UGE and Goblinisation are not one and the same IIRC. Goblinisation
happened 2021, UGE of dwarves and elves about ten years earlier.

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:14:40 -0600
The Digital Mage wrote:
|
| On Thu, 1 May 1997, GRANITE wrote:
|
| > > From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
| > > To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
| > > metatype.
| >
| > EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..While in the present of SR this happens
| > for all of the races..and Goblinization is rare..When things first
| > happened all was a different matter..While there have always been
| > true born dwarves..not so with elves..And again refering to pg 25 in
|
| I'm afraid Loki was correct, Elves and Dwarfs were all born as such, Orks
| and trolls goblinised. I believ teh former happened around 2010, teh
| latter around 2021.

Maybe he's thinking of the IE and spike babies that manifested their
"elvishness" after the awakening.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 12
From: david lowe <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:11:09 -0800
Also on the great time-travelling stories topics, it the old X-men
"Rememberances of Futures Past" or something like that. Basically a
character is mentally sent back from twenty years in the future to the
present in an attempt to change what has happened. I'm using a similar
story line in my current campaign and it's pretty cool.

D.
Message no. 13
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:36:57 -0500
On Thu, 1 May 1997, GRANITE wrote:

> > From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
> > To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
> > metatype.
>
> EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..While in the present of SR this happens
> for all of the races..and Goblinization is rare..When things first
> happened all was a different matter..While there have always been
> true born dwarves..not so with elves..And again refering to pg 25 in
> the core rules it refers to "....the new "races," the emerging elves,
> dwarfs, orks, and trolls." If I had the time I would do a bit more
> research and find more referances..but for now this will have to do..

Granit, me amigo, i'm sorry but you are wrong... only orc and
Trolls gobilinize. It's in the maim book. Elves nd Dwarves are the result
of UGE and are born that way.

> > first dwarven and elven babies began arriving (I believe around 2015)
>
> UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was
> applied to the process of changing from a Human into
> whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..

nope.. only human into orc/troll


> > I'm going off a basic understanding that no elf or dwarf metype has
> > expressed after birth,
>
> Sorry..you are misinformed..
>
> > Mind you, I'm finishing up a shift at work, so I don't have the books
> > right at hand.
>
> Ah..that explains it.. ;P


> >However, I believe that's an accurate recollection.
>
> Check your core rules later.....You are close..but not quite on the
> mark...
Czar


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:51:18 -0500
At 01:11 PM 5/1/97 -0800, david lowe whispered:
>Also on the great time-travelling stories topics, it the old X-men
>"Rememberances of Futures Past" or something like that. Basically a
>character is mentally sent back from twenty years in the future to the
>present in an attempt to change what has happened. I'm using a similar
>story line in my current campaign and it's pretty cool.

Spoilers! (Bill, don't read this)

b
l
a
h

b
l
a
h

b
l
a
h

b
l
a
h

That's pretty cool. Someone else on this list or on -GM mentioned a
character that recieves messages from the future - little things like "take
8 gallons of purified water and hide them in the sewers underneath 15th and
Nueces". Two game years later, the runners fight a toxic spirit in the
sewers and come across the purified water needed to help them. That type
of thing.

In a future run in my campaign, the running group get to meet a future
version of one the runners (Lynx, an elf) who comes back in time for just a
minute or so. Future-Lynx is there to drop off something the 2056
characters need to defeat the main bad guy. Of course, future-Lynx will
deliver some messages that are rather cryptic to the present-day runners
but are quite clear to future-Lynx.




-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 15
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:01:47 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 01:42:11 -0700 GRANITE <granite@**.net> writes:
>> From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
>> To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
>> metatype.
>
>EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..While in the present of SR this happens
>for all of the races..and Goblinization is rare..When things first
>happened all was a different matter..While there have always been
>true born dwarves..not so with elves..And again refering to pg 25 in
>the core rules it refers to "....the new "races," the emerging elves,
>dwarfs, orks, and trolls." If I had the time I would do a bit more
>research and find more referances..but for now this will have to do..

Hmm...I hate to disagree with you Granite, the term 'Goblinisation' was
used in reference to the spontanteous metamorphosis of humans into
'goblins', ie trolls or orks. In "And So It Came To Pass...", it was
detailed that the term was coined in 2021, when the first Orks and Trolls
expressed (some at birth, but _one out of every ten_ humans 'goblinised'
into a troll or ork after birth). Elves and dwarves, OTOH, only expressed
at birth, through UGE (Unknown Genetic Expression), and first appeared in
2011, the year of the Awakening.

I believe the reference to 'emerging races' was to the cultural
separation occuring between humanity and the various forms of
metahumanity, that is, the elves, dwarves, trolls, and orks were
beginning to develop a cultural identity separate from that of humanity.

>> first dwarven and elven babies began arriving (I believe around 2015)
>
>UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was

No, goblinisation appeared in 2021, UGE first happened in 2011.

>applied to the process of changing from a Human into
>whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..

While the term is occasionally applied to the changing of one (meta)human
into another form of (meta)human, including vampires, elves and dwarves
never goblinise.

<snip>
Message no. 16
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 18:01:47 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 10:07:29 -0700 GRANITE <granite@**.net> writes:
>> From: tom Cone <Brother-1@*****.NET>
>> Okay, the guy who UGE's into the chief elf.
>> (Depending on who you believe is the "chief elf")
>
>Well..that would be Santa Claus of course... ;) I've been waiting
>for someone else to say it since I sent it out...I couldn't stand it
>anymore..
>But really..I should have said a highly placed Elf..Or something more
>precise...

I thought the metahuman in charge of the Humanis (that is who we were
originally talking about, right?) was a Troll, though?

--
-Canthros-the-slightly-confused
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 17
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:05:20 -0500
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Faux Pas (Thomas) wrote:

> At 01:11 PM 5/1/97 -0800, david lowe whispered:

[snip something about an X-men plotling]

>
> Spoilers! (Bill, don't read this)
>
> b
> l
> a
> h
>
> b
> l
> a
> h
>
> b
> l
> a
> h
>
> b
> l
> a
> h
>
> That's pretty cool. Someone else on this list or on -GM mentioned a
> character that recieves messages from the future - little things like "take
> 8 gallons of purified water and hide them in the sewers underneath 15th and
> Nueces". Two game years later, the runners fight a toxic spirit in the
> sewers and come across the purified water needed to help them. That type
> of thing.
>

You could always make it an application of the new fortelling spell.

-Q

---------------------------------------
I dislike Windows95 for the same reason people dislike New Coke
It tastes disgustingly like Pepsi.

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 18
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:12:36 -0600
GRANITE wrote:
|
| > From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
| >...... This will leave them wondering why the
| > plane was listed as lost with no survivors (IIRC). And who is the
| > person who sent them back, and why did he do it? Fun, fun, fun :)
|
| I like the way you are thinking...

[snip: options]

Thank you :) Yep, in my adventures I like to try to put at least one
unanswered aspect in them somewhere. Even if I don't have an idea at
the time I like to have the option of going back to something. And
it's so much fun to see the player's faces when they are
"enlightened" (and it's fun experiencing it in other GM's games
too). Every now and then an adventure like this one is fun cuz there
are so many obvious questions without answers that it jumps the
players' paranoia way up there <EG>.

(PS, Granite, whenever I reply to your posts I have to manually
reset the Reply To: from your address to ShadowRN's. No bigee, just
thought you should know that your mailer is overiding the listserv's
Reply To: field :)

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:20:51 +0100
GRANITE said on 1:42/ 1 May 97...

> > From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.com>
> > To my best understanding, elves and dwarves are born as they're
> > metatype.
>
> EErrrttt.....Wrong answer..

Not just from Loki...

> While in the present of SR this happens for all of the races..and
> Goblinization is rare..When things first happened all was a different
> matter..While there have always been true born dwarves..not so with
> elves..And again refering to pg 25 in the core rules it refers to
> "....the new "races," the emerging elves, dwarfs, orks, and
trolls." If
> I had the time I would do a bit more research and find more
> referances..but for now this will have to do..

Elves and dwarves were _only_ born to human parents -- nobody suddenly
started changing into an elf or a dwarf. Orks and trolls first appeared in
that way, though, and to the best of my knowledge no human gave birth to
any ork or troll baby -- they were all born as humans who later
goblinized.

This was the first wave of UGE (elves and dwarfs) and goblinization (orks,
trolls, and others); later on, this became increasingly rare and most
metahumans were born to parents of the same metaspecies.

> UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was
> applied to the process of changing from a Human into
> whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..

UGE was happening all over 2011, goblinization hit on 30 April 2021.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I know that that sounds dumb.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 20
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:27:47 -0700
> From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
> I'm afraid Loki was correct, Elves and Dwarfs were all born as such,

While nobody gave a referance..I did more research..and I stand
corrected UGE did affect infants 10 years before the second wave of
transformations..creating dwraves and Elves [I do not find this
logical..but oh well]..Although this second
wave would still fall under the generic term UGE..as it does not discribe
a specific genetic situation..It is simply a different form of it..If
it was specific there should be 4 expression names one for each of the
dominant metas..instead we have 2 generic terms one slang the other
of scientific origin...Goblinitation is a word coined by the press not by
scientists as UGE was/is/will be..It is a little more catchy than
Unexplained Genetic Expression...And again it is listed under
Goblinization in the Core Rule Book..
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 21
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:03:24 -0700
---L Canthros wrote:
>
> Hmm...I hate to disagree with you Granite, the term 'Goblinisation'
was
> used in reference to the spontanteous metamorphosis of humans into
> 'goblins', ie trolls or orks. In "And So It Came To Pass...", it was
> detailed that the term was coined in 2021, when the first Orks and
Trolls
> expressed (some at birth, but _one out of every ten_ humans
'goblinised'
> into a troll or ork after birth). Elves and dwarves, OTOH, only
expressed
> at birth, through UGE (Unknown Genetic Expression), and first
appeared in
> 2011, the year of the Awakening.
>
> I believe the reference to 'emerging races' was to the cultural
> separation occuring between humanity and the various forms of
> metahumanity, that is, the elves, dwarves, trolls, and orks were
> beginning to develop a cultural identity separate from that of
humanity.
>
> >> first dwarven and elven babies began arriving (I believe around
2015)
> >
> >UGE expressed on 30 Apr 2021..The generic term Goblinization was
>
> No, goblinisation appeared in 2021, UGE first happened in 2011.
>
> >applied to the process of changing from a Human into
> >whatever..including Wendigo..and our pointy eared friends..
>
> While the term is occasionally applied to the changing of one
(meta)human
> into another form of (meta)human, including vampires, elves and
dwarves
> never goblinise.

I'd sent him a mail with the same explanation and dates (UGE v.s.
Goblininzed expression), but I think it had his private email in the
reply to filed rather the list's. Thanx for giving this explanation
and helping me out on what I was trying to get across.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 22
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:27:49 -0700
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Maybe he's thinking of the IE and spike babies that manifested their
> "elvishness" after the awakening.

That is part of my point although I didn't bring it up..
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 23
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:27:48 -0700
> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
See my other post for points about UGE vs Goblinization...

> While the term is occasionally applied to the changing of one (meta)human
> into another form of (meta)human, including vampires, elves and dwarves
> never goblinise.

Never say never..... ;)
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 24
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 23:27:48 -0700
> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
> >But really..I should have said a highly placed Elf..Or something more
> >precise...
> I thought the metahuman in charge of the Humanis (that is who we were
> originally talking about, right?) was a Troll, though?

Actually I was putting forward many different possibilities..So pick
and choose..Any of them would end up in the debt of the runners..that
could turn not a little sticky...Of course if someone were to be
bitter about having turned...Well they might not appreciate what the
runners did for him/her...Wishing they had died while still human...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 25
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 17:09:36 -0700
---Czar Eggbert wrote:
>
> Granit, me amigo, i'm sorry but you are wrong... only orc and
> Trolls gobilinize. It's in the maim book. Elves nd Dwarves are the
result
> of UGE and are born that way.

Again, the same point I was trying to make but my post went to private
mail rather than the list.

===

@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/
_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 26
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 16:22:18 -0700
> > Granit, me amigo, i'm sorry but you are wrong... only orc and
> > Trolls gobilinize. It's in the maim book. Elves nd Dwarves are the
> result
> > of UGE and are born that way.
> Again, the same point I was trying to make but my post went to private
> mail rather than the list.

Hello....Hello..does anybody hear me??? I already said I was at least
partially incorrect..I said it yesterday..And I know it went to the
list because I checked...The birth of Elves and Dwaves as new races did
in fact occur 10 years prior to the more catastrofic emergance of
Trolls and Orks..Although..IMO..that would make them rather young to
be..so widely spread in positions of absulute power [among elves that
is] so quickly no matter how quickly they mature physically..Of
course by the current date things would be a bit different..But even
by the '30s these children of mana would only be in their early
20s..barely out of school...
--------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 27
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:10:12 EDT
On Thu, 1 May 1997 23:27:48 -0700 GRANITE <granite@**.net> writes:
>> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
>See my other post for points about UGE vs Goblinization...

Well, Goblinisation is, technically, a UGE. But, for reasons of
distinction, I'd say it isn't considered Goblinisation unless it happens
after birth, and UGE only applies when a child of one race is born to
parents of another. Simply for as a clarification:), but that's my take
on it, for what it's worth.

>> While the term is occasionally applied to the changing of one
(meta)human
>> into another form of (meta)human, including vampires, elves and
dwarves
>> never goblinise.
>
>Never say never..... ;)

Well, other than vampiric 'goblinisation' and 'special circumstances',
elves and dwarves don't goblinise (special circumstances including the
actions of an Evil GM, and/or NPCs equipped with special magical
knowledge:) Dumb question, but where's the info on spike babies from? Is
it in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook?

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, lobo1@****.com
let him prepare for war. canthros1@***.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 28
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Starting back in time-traveling
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 02:34:34 +0200
On Fri, 2 May 1997 07:12:36 -0600, David Buehrer wrote:

>(PS, Granite, whenever I reply to your posts I have to manually
>reset the Reply To: from your address to ShadowRN's. No bigee, just
>thought you should know that your mailer is overiding the listserv's
>Reply To: field :)

Not quite true. listserv is NOT overriding Granites Reply-To field. The
same with mine. In fact, I assume it overrides NO Reply-To field. It
still doesn't.
Fro, Mark, can you do something about it???

--
Arno
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