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From:	ChrisPetro@*.com ChrisPetro@*.com
Subject:	[Steve / Mike] Killing Hands and Damage Staging
Date:	Fri, 21 May 1999 17:46:17 EDT

Message no. 1 I was wondering if the rules for staging Melee Damage (SR3 p122, Resolving
Melee Combat, 4. Determine Damage) applied to Killing Hands and/or Distance
Strike.

Would the Dodge Test vs Distance Strike take the place of the opposed combat
test for the purposes of determining the number of net sucesses for damage
staging?

Adept w/ Martial Arts 9, STR 8, Combat Pool 8, Killing Hands S, & Distance
Strike.
Adept sees True Form Wasp Spirit (Force 6) heading for his Mage buddy and
decides to head it off (like any good Adept would), but he cann't get there
in time, so he uses Distance Strike to project a Killing Hands Attack across
the 8 meters to the bug.

USING DAMAGE STAGING RULES
Rolling all his dice (9+8) he gets a 1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,7,8,10,14,17
against a target number of 4 netting 11 successes. The Wasp sees the attack
coming and attempts to dodge using 10 of his 11 combat pool against a target
number of 4 rolling 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,9 and netting 5 successes. 11 attack
successes - 5 dodge successes nets 6 effective successes. The first 2 stage
the damage level to deadly the next 4 stage the power up by 2 to 10. The
Wasp Spirit must now resist a 10D attack using his Body (6) plus any
remaining combat pool (1) at a target number of 5 (power 10 - armor, armor =
Force -1) rolling 2,3,4,5,5,7,9 netting 4 successes. The wasp takes a
moderate wound.

WITHOUT STAGING
Rolling all his dice (9+8) he gets a 1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,7,8,10,14,17
against a target number of 4 netting 11 successes. The Wasp sees the attack
coming and attempts to dodge using 10 of his 11 combat pool against a target
number of 4 rolling 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,9 and netting 5 successes. The Wasp
Spirit must now resist a 8S attack using his Body (6) plus any remaining
combat pool (1) at a target number of 3 (power 8 - armor, armor = Force -1)
rolling 2,3,4,5,5,7,9 netting 6 successes. Add in the 5 successes form the
dodge test for a total of 11 successes and the wasp takes a serious wound.

(Actually, in this example the adept would have been better off doing damage
as normal. If I did the examples correctly.)

It seems to be a trade off. Higher target number, but less successes needed
vs lower target number, but more success needed.

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	[Steve / Mike] Killing Hands and Damage Staging
Date:	Sat, 22 May 1999 11:38:43 +0200

Message no. 2 According to ChrisPetro@***.com, at 17:46 on 21 May 99, the word on
the street was...

> I was wondering if the rules for staging Melee Damage (SR3 p122, Resolving
> Melee Combat, 4. Determine Damage) applied to Killing Hands and/or Distance
> Strike.

As it's never been stated that they don't, I would say they do. Yes, that
makes Killing Hands (D) with plenty of Unarmed Combat dice a rather lethal
combination...

> Would the Dodge Test vs Distance Strike take the place of the opposed combat
> test for the purposes of determining the number of net sucesses for damage
> staging?

With opposed test, I take it you mean the situation where both sides make
a skill test using the appropriate skill for the weapon they're holding?
IMHO yes, with Distance Strike there would only be the adept's skill test
followed by the dodge and Body tests of the target.

> Adept w/ Martial Arts 9, STR 8, Combat Pool 8, Killing Hands S, & Distance
> Strike.
> Adept sees True Form Wasp Spirit (Force 6) heading for his Mage buddy and
> decides to head it off (like any good Adept would), but he cann't get there
> in time, so he uses Distance Strike to project a Killing Hands Attack across
> the 8 meters to the bug.

If you say so... :)

> USING DAMAGE STAGING RULES
> Rolling all his dice (9+8) he gets a 1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,7,8,10,14,17
> against a target number of 4 netting 11 successes. The Wasp sees the attack
> coming and attempts to dodge using 10 of his 11 combat pool against a target
> number of 4 rolling 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,9 and netting 5 successes. 11 attack
> successes - 5 dodge successes nets 6 effective successes. The first 2 stage
> the damage level to deadly the next 4 stage the power up by 2 to 10. The
> Wasp Spirit must now resist a 10D attack using his Body (6) plus any
> remaining combat pool (1) at a target number of 5 (power 10 - armor, armor =
> Force -1) rolling 2,3,4,5,5,7,9 netting 4 successes. The wasp takes a
> moderate wound.

Check.

> WITHOUT STAGING
> Rolling all his dice (9+8) he gets a 1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4,5,5,5,7,8,10,14,17
> against a target number of 4 netting 11 successes. The Wasp sees the attack
> coming and attempts to dodge using 10 of his 11 combat pool against a target
> number of 4 rolling 1,2,2,3,3,4,5,5,7,9 and netting 5 successes. The Wasp
> Spirit must now resist a 8S attack using his Body (6) plus any remaining
> combat pool (1) at a target number of 3 (power 8 - armor, armor = Force -1)
> rolling 2,3,4,5,5,7,9 netting 6 successes. Add in the 5 successes form the
> dodge test for a total of 11 successes and the wasp takes a serious wound.

This would be true, but why do you feel Staging doesn't apply to Killing
Hands? All it does is alter the physad's unarmed hand-to-hand damage, it
doesn't cause a fixe amount of damage (if it did, why bother with the
successes from the attack test at all? One or ten wouldn't make a
difference IMHO).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I never seem to be able to finish what I
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	[Steve / Mike] Killing Hands and Damage Staging
Date:	Sat, 22 May 1999 22:01:16 -0500

Message no. 3 > Would the Dodge Test vs Distance Strike take the place of the opposed
combat
> test for the purposes of determining the number of net sucesses for damage
> staging?

The abilty descrition says that "the target uses combat pool and body
dice to resit the attack as a ranged attack". Therefore, there is no
opposed combat test; the target dodges, just as if the adept had (fore
example) thrown a weapon or whatever.

<snip long example>
> USING DAMAGE STAGING RULES
<per melee combat, with staging byond "D" increasing power, then dmage
bveing resisted>
V.S.
> WITHOUT STAGING
<per ranged combat, where successes are compared, then staging figured>

Since Distance Strike damage is resisted as "as a ranged attack", I'd
say you would use the ranged attack procedure, as in the second example you
gave. The attacker and target both each 11 successes, respectively, on the
attack / dodge + damage resistance. This results in the target taking
damage at the attacks base level- S physical in your example, but it could
be M stun if the adept did not have "Killing Hands".
This does, in some cases, give "Distance Strike" an advantage over
normal melee combat, regarding the final damage. This would mostly happen
in cases when the target is well armored (compared to the attacks final
power), and the attacker rolled a lot of dice.

Mongoose

From:	TalonMail@*.com TalonMail@*.com
Subject:	[Steve / Mike] Killing Hands and Damage Staging
Date:	Mon, 24 May 1999 10:19:10 EDT

Message no. 4 ChrisPetro@***.com wrote:
>I was wondering if the rules for staging Melee Damage (SR3 p122, Resolving
>Melee Combat, 4. Determine Damage) applied to Killing Hands and/or Distance
>Strike.

To Killing Hands, yes. To Distance Strike, no. Distance Strike is handled
like a Ranged Attack according to MitS, p. 150.

Hope that helps.

Steve

Kenson's Cranial Collection
http://members.aol.com/talonmail

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