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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Storytelling
Date:	Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:43:03 -0600

Message no. 1 Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 7:47/ 7 Jul 97...
|
| > So you switch to Shadowrun and take ManaMissile and Fireball out of
| > habit, not realizing that the difference between AD$D and Shadowrun
| > is that Shadowrun is designed to be a Roleplaying game :) It takes a
| > little while to figure that out (in general).
|
| I'll second that. At first the majority of the SR adventures I designed
| were really heavy on combat, but the more recent ones have involved less
| and less firefights. Thinking now of the Elvis adventure that's still
| fresh in my memory, I was almost tempted not to have the shoot-out with
| the killer at the end, since one of the players remarked that they'd just
| done a whole adventure without firing a shot and had a great time...

I just did pretty much the same thing, and it went great. I also
learned another nice trick, (as the GM) you don't need to role dice
to decide the outcome of a conflict between NPCs. In the final
combat I had a Troll that was attacking both the NPCs and the Special
Forces squad sent by the CAS (to steal the chemical weapons for
themselves). I wanted the Troll to wax the SF squad, if the PCs
didn't interfere. Sure enough the PCs dove for cover when the Troll
charged in and the SF started blazing.

I didn't want to have the outcome between the NPCs decided by chance,
so I went into story telling mode. As the troll is charging in one
of the SF guys gets off a shot and blows the troll's left arm clean
off. The troll doesn't even slow down (pain editor), picks up one of
the SF guys by the head, and *crushes* his head against a wall. (At
this point the PCs can move, and get the hell out of dodge, diving
behind cover.) Now the PCs hear another stacato of gunfire and
bullets ricochetting off the steel walls, a scream, and see one of
the SF guys go flying into the SF Sargent (whom they can see).
Another PC who's hiding at the other end of the room watches *half*
of an SF guy go flying by...

All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:21:03 +0100

Message no. 2 David Buehrer said on 7:43/11 Jul 97...

> I just did pretty much the same thing, and it went great. I also
> learned another nice trick, (as the GM) you don't need to role dice
> to decide the outcome of a conflict between NPCs.

That's something I learned long ago, if only because it slows down combat
immensely if the PCs aren't involved in it. I still roll dice if, say, an
NPC on the players' team shoots an enemy NPC, but for fights in which the
players aren't involved I don't roll much, or even at all. Just one or two
dice throws (more if I need to make the players think I'm rolling for it
normally), or none at all.

I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
(guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:03:00 -0600

Message no. 3 Gurth wrote:
|
| Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
| (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

It depends on what you had planned for him afterwards. If during a
later session he said, "I should have let the Mantis Queen eat me."
then you're an Evil GM :)

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."

From:	"Bruce H. Nagel" <NAGELBH@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:48:28 -0500

Message no. 4 You wrote:
> All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
> PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
> troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
> wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).
Well, how foolish this was depends on specifics. How important was it for her
to take out said Troll? More importantly, Pain Editor or no, I would expect
someone who has lost an arm to keel over in a minute or two from blood loss if
nothing else, the Pain editor doesn't stop blood loss... And his performance,
regardless of the Pain Editor should suffer (loss of balance and the like, not
to mention the blood gushing out of his arm).

losthalo

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:38:43 +0100

Message no. 5 David Buehrer said on 14:03/11 Jul 97...

> | Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
>
> It depends on what you had planned for him afterwards. If during a
> later session he said, "I should have let the Mantis Queen eat me."
> then you're an Evil GM :)

He is in hospital now debating whether (if?) Lone Star (his employer) will
pay for a full cyberleg or only for some kind of clonal replacement... Not
to mention how he's going to pay for the hospital treatment, but since
he's got a job at a security firm I'll most likely assume he's got
insurance and only charge him a little bit. Which should raise some
eyebrows among the other players...

*remembers player in question is on this list* I think I'll make him wish
the mantis spirit killed him :) <EGMG>

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:18:34 -0700

Message no. 6 Gurth wrote:

| That's something I learned long ago, if only because it slows down combat
| immensely if the PCs aren't involved in it. I still roll dice if, say, an
| NPC on the players' team shoots an enemy NPC, but for fights in which the
| players aren't involved I don't roll much, or even at all. Just one or
two
| dice throws (more if I need to make the players think I'm rolling for it
| normally), or none at all.

| I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
| stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
| meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
| straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
| rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
| occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
| (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)

I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
of with an elevator later or not.

<g>

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:13:31 -0700

Message no. 7 | > All of this went quickly, and made a hell of an impression on the
| > PCs. But would you believe that one of them decided to take on the
| > troll anyway? At that point I pulled out the dice and proceeded to
| > wail on the PC (somehow she still lived through it <GM sigh>).
| Well, how foolish this was depends on specifics. How important was it
for her
| to take out said Troll? More importantly, Pain Editor or no, I would
expect
| someone who has lost an arm to keel over in a minute or two from blood
loss if
| nothing else, the Pain editor doesn't stop blood loss... And his
performance,
| regardless of the Pain Editor should suffer (loss of balance and the
like, not
| to mention the blood gushing out of his arm).

A minute or two in combat when you are full of who knows what drugs is an
eternity. I've seen footage of a guy who was being arrested by FBI I think
it was, who was fatally wounded with the first shot that hit him, but he
killed twelve agents before he finally went down. Later testing showed
absolutely no drugs in his system. As for the pain editor issue...if it is
physical damage he still suffers the modifier. He may not feel the pain,
but the fact that the arm is gone would still give him the wound modifier.

-Caric

"If a man talks in the forest, and there isn't a woman around to hear him,
is he still wrong?"

From:	Gabriel <bginc@***.ZEELANDNET.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:04 +0100

Message no. 8 > He is in hospital now debating whether (if?) Lone Star (his employer) will
> pay for a full cyberleg or only for some kind of clonal replacement... Not
> to mention how he's going to pay for the hospital treatment, but since
> he's got a job at a security firm I'll most likely assume he's got
> insurance and only charge him a little bit. Which should raise some
> eyebrows among the other players...

So, that WAS me, you were talking about, I was wondering already.
>
> *remembers player in question is on this list* I think I'll make him wish
> the mantis spirit killed him :) <EGMG>

Now that you mention it, if you had let the mantis spirit kill me,
then we wouldn't have had so much fun getting our limbs blown off ;-)

Lance Cooney

"Are you sure that part goes there?" said the sammy to the streetdoc

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From:	Gabriel <bginc@***.ZEELANDNET.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:01:04 +0100

Message no. 9 > I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> of with an elevator later or not.

To indulge all of you: it was my leg, and he did.

Lance Cooney

"I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."

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From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:25 +0100

Message no. 10 Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...

> "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."

EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:32:24 +0100

Message no. 11 Caric said on 7:18/12 Jul 97...

> | I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
> | stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
> | meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
> | straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
> | rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
> | occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
>
> I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> of with an elevator later or not.

I wanted him alive else there'd be nobody to take Anne Penchyk out of the
CZ (and don't go into more detail about this without spoiler spaces,
okay?).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Forget about the ones who "have it all."
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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From:	Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Sun, 13 Jul 1997 11:35:16 -0400

Message no. 12 At 12:32 PM 7/13/97 +0100, Gurth wrote these timeless words:
>Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...
>
>> "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."
>
>EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)
>
Hey gabe... Got a better Idea for ya...

Try marrying one...

<big Grin>

It get's interesting. If my partner Johnny 99 had compy access, he could
certainly attest to that...;];];];];];];];];];]

Bull-the-gugin'-Ork-Decker
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Gen Con, here I come!"
-- Me

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:08:31 -0700

Message no. 13 Gurth wrote:

> > | I even did this for a fight between a PC and a mantis spirit. We'd
> > | stopped the last session just before the fight, and went on there. In the
> > | meantime I'd decided the PC would get killed if we handled this as a
> > | straight BTB fight, so we turned to a more cinematic style; no initiative
> > | rolls, mostly descriptions of actions and what was going on, plus the
> > | occasional attack test for either side. Hey, I wanted the PC to survive
> > | (guess that doesn't make me much of an evil GM, does it? :)
> >
> > I guess that depends on if you left him alive so that you could rip his arm
> > of with an elevator later or not.
>
> I wanted him alive else there'd be nobody to take Anne Penchyk out of the
> CZ (and don't go into more detail about this without spoiler spaces,
> okay?).

Ahhhh I see, message reieved good buddy. Plus you took his leg so you
ARE an evil GM. Sorry Gurth I didn't want it to be true but i'm afraid
that it is.

Caric

From:	Caric <caric@********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Storytelling
Date:	Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:11:13 -0700

Message no. 14 Gurth wrote:
>
> Gabriel said on 0:01/13 Jul 97...
>
> > "I wish the Mantis spirit killed me."
>
> EGMLOL! Now I just _have_ to make this come true... :)

The prosecution rests your honor.

Caric

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