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Message no. 1
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Strangest idea
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 15:36:55 METDST
A decker connects to the matrix via the datajack. He gets a simulated
representation of the matrix geography. He can touch and feel things
too.

Now, if someone build an "interface" to connect two deckers, will it
be possible to enter the sensorium of one from another?

Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.

And viceversa, of course.

Badly need some response from the list :)

Byebye, Paolo
--
______________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste - Italy
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci.html
(1.0.1) GCS/GMU d-- -p+ c++ l- u+ e* m+ s n-- h* f+? g- w+/++ t+ r+ x+
______________________________________________________________________
"Visual Basic: You'll shoot yourself in the foot, but you'll have so
much fun doing it that you won't care."
Message no. 2
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:34:00 -0400
Paolo Marcucci writes

> A decker connects to the matrix via the datajack. He gets a simulated
> representation of the matrix geography. He can touch and feel things
> too.
>
> Now, if someone build an "interface" to connect two deckers, will it
> be possible to enter the sensorium of one from another?
>
> Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
> where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
> that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
> decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.
>
> And viceversa, of course.
>
> Badly need some response from the list :)
>
> Byebye, Paolo
> --


I was under the understanding that a hitcher jack was exactly that sort
of thing. Basically, what you are talking about is two deckers hitching
into each others' decks. Confusing as hell, but probably possible.

Marc
Message no. 3
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 01:01:18 +1000
Paolo writes:

> A decker connects to the matrix via the datajack. He gets a simulated
> representation of the matrix geography. He can touch and feel things
> too.
>
> Now, if someone build an "interface" to connect two deckers, will it
> be possible to enter the sensorium of one from another?
>
> Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
> where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
> that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
> decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.
>
> And viceversa, of course.

Ya dont need this, ya already said it :-)

I've thought about situations like this on occasion, someone jacking into an
unconcious persons datajack to access headware memory for instance, but
decided against it. sinse deckings not my speciality, i'll 'ave a go and
explain my reasoning, but dont expect too much. the cyberdeck translates a
deckers wishes into data, which is "read" by the matrix, and the deck
translates data from the matrix back into electrical impulses that the
deckers brain can understand. In a human mind, where would your decker
"appear", there would be no "matrix" to move about and do stuff in.
There is
no peices of software saying, "if this command is issued, this happens", and
no way for someone to "see" inside someones elses head. Tho the issue of
accessing headware memory is still a bit iffy, it would be like accessing a
chip i guess. The "black box" couldnot issue commands on what to see in the
other persons head. Both deckers could appear in a small computer system
created by the box i spose, but that wasnt the question now was it. There,
that all sounded thoughorly confusing, senseless and helped about as much as
a hole in the head, eh? :-)

Damion
Message no. 4
From: Jai Tao <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 23:35:34 -0400
On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Paolo Marcucci wrote:

> Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
> where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
> that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
> decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.

Forget about making it decker-only, and it could be considered a
closed-circuit Sim rig. Check the rules in Shadowbeat talking about sim
recordings...it ain't cheap on essence if you want the full experience
recorded, but there are some sick people out there, chummer.
Just imagine the possibilities for sexual experiences. Lust
after your friend's wife? Just see if he'll let you experience it with
him....
Like I said, there are some sick people out there, chummer. But
as long as there are, there's gonna be the kind o' scum that cater to
their needs.
Message no. 5
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 08:24:42 METDST
> >
> > Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
> > where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
> > that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
> > decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.
> >
> > And viceversa, of course.
> >
> > Badly need some response from the list :)
> >
> > Byebye, Paolo
> > --
>
>
> I was under the understanding that a hitcher jack was exactly that sort
> of thing. Basically, what you are talking about is two deckers hitching
> into each others' decks. Confusing as hell, but probably possible.
>
> Marc
>

No, I was not talking of hitcher jacks. Those gadgets lets two decker
to jack in the same deck and then in the matrix. I was thinking of the
mind of a person being the matrix for another one.

The basic idea is this: a scientist fells in coma. Inside his head there
are his last thoughts about the main corp project (no, he didn't write
anything, neither did backups :). He has a datajack. Basically, he's
almost dead, the only hope to retrieve secret info is to jack into him.

This is done with a simstim device, that, in a yet-to-be-defined way,
translates neuronal activity into symbolic representations that can
be "viewed" by who is jacked in.

Hope this time I written it in correct english :)

--
______________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste - Italy
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci.html
Message no. 6
From: Marcus Adi <s1685736@********.TECHNION.AC.IL>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 09:59:16 +0300
The sensorium of one decker can be picked up by another decker without
to much expensive and\or complicated hardware. even the sensorium of a non
decker can be recorded and transmited. (sense links)
If i'm not mistaken this setup was used in Neuromancer between Moly and
keis


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Major Premise: Sixty men can do a piece of work sixty times as quickly as one man. Minor
Premise: One man can dig a posthole in sixty seconds. Conclusion: Sixty men can dig a
posthole in one second. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADI MARCUS _(-0-0-)_ s1685736@********.technion.ac.il
Cerbarus - The phantasmal hound of the War Dog company
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Rob Moulton <szicepik@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 00:00:20 -0700
On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Jai Tao wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jun 1994, Paolo Marcucci wrote:
>
> > Ehm... try to explain better: a black box with two datajack connectors
> > where two deckers jack in. Inside the box there is a simstim processor
> > that pushes into the mind of decker A what the decker B is doing, while
> > decker B sees and feels what's inside the mind of A.
>
> Forget about making it decker-only, and it could be considered a
> closed-circuit Sim rig. Check the rules in Shadowbeat talking about sim
> recordings...it ain't cheap on essence if you want the full experience
> recorded, but there are some sick people out there, chummer.
> Just imagine the possibilities for sexual experiences. Lust
> after your friend's wife? Just see if he'll let you experience it with
> him....
> Like I said, there are some sick people out there, chummer. But
> as long as there are, there's gonna be the kind o' scum that cater to
> their needs.
>
Are you going to be the "scum" that makes the stuff and sells it to
them? Just don't shake their hand......

Rob
Message no. 8
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 09:13:50 METDST
>
> The sensorium of one decker can be picked up by another decker without
> to much expensive and\or complicated hardware. even the sensorium of a non
> decker can be recorded and transmited. (sense links)
> If i'm not mistaken this setup was used in Neuromancer between Moly and
> keis
>

Ok. Maybe I've used the "sensorium" word in a wrong way :)

The device should let the decker to enter the "mind" of the target.
What he founds here is yet to be defined, but I was thinking of a
"land" where symbols coming from the target thougths are stored.

The whole idea is taken from Greg Bear's "Queen of Angels".

______________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste - Italy
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it http://www.oat.ts.astro.it/marcucci.html
Message no. 9
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 00:25:06 +1000
Marc writes:

> No, I was not talking of hitcher jacks. Those gadgets lets two decker
> to jack in the same deck and then in the matrix. I was thinking of the
> mind of a person being the matrix for another one.
>
> The basic idea is this: a scientist fells in coma. Inside his head there
> are his last thoughts about the main corp project (no, he didn't write
> anything, neither did backups :). He has a datajack. Basically, he's
> almost dead, the only hope to retrieve secret info is to jack into him.
>
> This is done with a simstim device, that, in a yet-to-be-defined way,
> translates neuronal activity into symbolic representations that can
> be "viewed" by who is jacked in.
>
> Hope this time I written it in correct english :)

It was last time, I understood what you were raving about :-)
anyway, my opinion still remains the same: no. For my (somewhat befuddled)
reasoning, see my previous post on the topic, as I'm too tired (not to
mention lazy) to rewrite it all.

Damion
Message no. 10
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 00:27:50 +1000
Paolo writes:

> The basic idea is this: a scientist fells in coma. Inside his head there
> are his last thoughts about the main corp project (no, he didn't write
> anything, neither did backups :). He has a datajack. Basically, he's
> almost dead, the only hope to retrieve secret info is to jack into him.
>
> This is done with a simstim device, that, in a yet-to-be-defined way,
> translates neuronal activity into symbolic representations that can
> be "viewed" by who is jacked in.
>
> Hope this time I written it in correct english :)

did i call you Marc in my last post, I have asneaking suspicion I did. sorry
about that it I did happen to. Wont happen again (i promise :-)
Anyway, another thought, perhaps you could acces headware memory and
download data tho.

Damion
Message no. 11
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 15:37:03 +0100
Why not just suck his brain out with a straw?

then you centrifuge it to break down the tissue and seperate out
the memory RNA.
this you inject into a biological computer unit (human brain
tissue,cloned so its blank, datajacked to a big computer)
So the comp gets his memorys...

(SCI FI ? or the future? you decide...your GM)

the other way is to 'Interogate' the brain by stimulating bits
at random till you find the memorys...like weird waking dreams
for the victims...(Cal, if you read this, does this get Talsen
worried about that night in Renaku?)
So THEY can read your MIND!!!!!


CHOPPER
Message no. 12
From: MILLIKEN DAMION A <u9467882@***.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:14:22 +1000
CHOPPER writes:

>
> Why not just suck his brain out with a straw?
>
> then you centrifuge it to break down the tissue and seperate out
> the memory RNA.
> this you inject into a biological computer unit (human brain
> tissue,cloned so its blank, datajacked to a big computer)
> So the comp gets his memorys...
>
> (SCI FI ? or the future? you decide...your GM)
>
> the other way is to 'Interogate' the brain by stimulating bits
> at random till you find the memorys...like weird waking dreams
> for the victims...(Cal, if you read this, does this get Talsen
> worried about that night in Renaku?)
> So THEY can read your MIND!

Interesting thought. I would say no, as how does one separate memory RNA? I
dont think it can be differentiated from the rest can it? Also, how does the
clone brain make use of it?
On the subject of interrogating the brain, it sounds better than sucking it
out with a straw, but i cant see how you would get a useful response from
the brain in question, the person would be undergoing stange muscle spasms
and the like, and when you hit the memory part, whats supposed to happen. I
see it as nothing would occur, except perhaps add some bizzare memeorys, or
erase some perhaps, I feel a response from the brain would not be
forthcoming.
Message no. 13
From: The Smiling Bandit <ygershon@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Strangest idea (fwd)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 00:01:45 -0700
As far as some general notions about the role of DNA and/or RNA in the
cell, I'd like to say a few things (as someone who has just completed a
degree in genetics).

For the idea of sucking the RNA out/centrifuging it, etc. it would be
much easier and as useful to just grab the person without killing them
and force them to jack in. The reason is as follows:

Many Sci-Fi authors/books/shows would like you to believe that DNA/RNA
can "store" memories. Some old Niven story comes to mind. The point is,
there is no particular DNA or segment of DNA (or RNA) that serves as a
storage unit for some memory. The DNA/RNA code for basic building blocks
of the brain (among other things). On higher levels, interactions among
these blocks create what we vaguely define as a memories.

The short of this is that in order to get memories you need all of the
brain (or major portions of it). You cannot rely on one RNA molecule to
provide a memory. Memories are also formed by interaction with the
environment (with the exception of a few instincts). It is most likely
that the clone you make will have memories that are COMPLETELY different
from your original victim, even if you pulled out the victim's genetic
code in its entirety.

Whew...
Next?

+--------------------------------------------------+
:::::| Yoav Gershon | "Wide angle watcher |:::::
:::::| ygershon@*******.edu | on life's ancient tales" |:::::
+--------------------------------------------------+

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